And...It's Spain.. will it kick off ?
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
confused_buyer said:
Article 155 of the Spanish Constitution as I understand is a virtual cut and paste from the German Constitution which has an identical clause should one of the Landers go rogue.
Naughty! Next someone will be saying "Yeah but that was put there by the (American) Army"Meanwhile in Japan, the US has sort of bailed from defending Japan against China and North Korea, but the US-drafted Constitution says that Japan is not allowed to be fighty.
The Japanese PM has just been re-elected with a mandate, he says, to seek an amendment to the pacifist constitution. No easy matter, as he would have to carry both houses of Parliament by large majorities and also win a referendum on the issue. Some critics say that the PM is too fixated on this matter, and may in some way be influenced by trying to rehabilitate his grandfather who was suspected of war crimes during WW2.
North Korea is not the only issue for Japan. China is intent on becoming the locally dominant Naval power, and there are arguments about various islands. China deployed a submarine into the middle of a US fleet on exercise a while back, just to show that it could. The sub surfaced in the middle of the US battle group, just to say "f
k you"
Germany is, for similar reasons to Japan, also limited by its constitution in military action that is not defensive. This has limited German involvement in middle eastern capers, amongst other things. It has turned out that Plan Bank has worked for Germany far better than Plan Tank ever did.
North Korea is not the only issue for Japan. China is intent on becoming the locally dominant Naval power, and there are arguments about various islands. China deployed a submarine into the middle of a US fleet on exercise a while back, just to show that it could. The sub surfaced in the middle of the US battle group, just to say "f
k you"Germany is, for similar reasons to Japan, also limited by its constitution in military action that is not defensive. This has limited German involvement in middle eastern capers, amongst other things. It has turned out that Plan Bank has worked for Germany far better than Plan Tank ever did.
Halmyre said:
I heard that on the radio last week; Japan has one of the most modern and well-equipped armies in the world but its constitution prevents the use of military force in any circumstance; at the moment there's a bit of politicking going on, with certain factions campaigning on a ticket to have that ruling revoked. If North Korea continue to lob rockets over their heads I can see a lot of people nodding those heads in agreement.
Following Abe's win looks like the post W2 pacifist constitution is to be reviewed.Love the last para of the article though "Media exit polls showed that, despite the LDP’s big win, 51 percent of voters do not trust the prime minister"
Breadvan72 said:
Having an easy to change written constitution would be as daft as allowing a simple majority of whoever can be bothered to vote to change the destiny of a nation on a single issue referendum. Hell, you wouldn't change the rules of the local golf club that way.
Dry your eyes mate.
CrutyRammers said:
Breadvan72 said:
Having an easy to change written constitution would be as daft as allowing a simple majority of whoever can be bothered to vote to change the destiny of a nation on a single issue referendum. Hell, you wouldn't change the rules of the local golf club that way.
Dry your eyes mate.(there'll be plenty more fish in the sea)
Government in exile.
Does't comment on the possible fleeing, but the link is the latest the beeb has on it
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41760832
Does't comment on the possible fleeing, but the link is the latest the beeb has on it
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41760832
I was pondering this last night. Catalonia is just the latest bit of Spain to really voice their discontent. For many years of course, it was Basque Spain that fiercely opposed Spanish rule (for those not familiar, the Basque separatists were to Spain pretty much what the IRA were to the UK) and that has roots in many issues. Not least is that during the Spanish Civil war, the very first time German bomber raids of the sort used in WW2 were carried out was on Guernica, in the Basque region, at the behest of the Spanish Nationalists.
Subsequent times spent with the nation forcibly cobbled together under Franco, until the mid 1970's - really not that long ago in either historic or generational terms - will have done little to help.
Subsequent times spent with the nation forcibly cobbled together under Franco, until the mid 1970's - really not that long ago in either historic or generational terms - will have done little to help.
Breadvan72 said:
Spain has been a nation State since the late fifteenth century. You can blame Franco for a lot, and he deserves all the the criticism he gets, but he didn't invent Spain.
The separatism in the Basque region was strong before the Spanish Civil war and was compounded by it. Without an undemocratic rule, the nation would probably not have stayed together.My father remembers visiting Spain in the 70's, before and after Franco; he felt the effects of the regime were poisonous and very deeply rooted.
Breadvan72 said:
Spain has been a nation State since the late fifteenth century. You can blame Franco for a lot, and he deserves all the the criticism he gets, but he didn't invent Spain.
No, he didn't invent it, but he did pursue a strong policy of Spanish Nationalism, which included banning the use of languages other than Castillian Spanish in public, outlawing non Castillian Christian names and even making the likes of Barcelona and Bilbao football clubs change their names??Franco didn't invent Spain, but he did try to invent "Greater Castillia & Leon".
Breadvan72 said:
I agree. My parents were there in 1960 and again in the 70s and saw some grim stuff, and I have a Spanish friend whose dad fled Franco after the Civil War. A terrible regime with a lasting legacy.
My father is typically blunt and direct - as befits a Yorkshireman - but also very well-read and highly inquisitive. So in situations like he encountered there, as in others in his life, he did not flinch from asking awkward questions in search of first hand knowledge. I think there are a great many facts about Europe that are either little known or otherwise glossed over.Breadvan72 said:
I agree. My parents were there in 1960 and again in the 70s and saw some grim stuff, and I have a Spanish friend whose dad fled Franco after the Civil War. A terrible regime with a lasting legacy.
I knew a Galician whose father's earliest memory was of his grandfather being clubbed unconscious by the Guardia Civil in front of him for speaking Gallego in public. Gallego was the only language that his grandfather spoke.This was a pretty every day sort of occurrence.
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