Essex EDL Rally today....
Discussion
del mar said:
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I listed four crimes that prove/suit my point, if we work on the basis that there are say 100 crimes which can result in imprisonment (there maybe more or less but 100 is a nice round number).
Muslims are over represented in 4 out of the 100 possible UK crimes - 4% of all types of crime, not 4% of all crimes.
If they are not over represented in the other 96 crimes, and in some cases maybe even under represented, this would suggest that the volume and frequency of these 4 crimes must be staggering to result in the prison population being almost 4 times their UK population, in percentage terms.
Now maybe it is or they could be over represented in a selection of the 100 listed crimes.
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It's cool to be present at the birth of a completely made up stat! I listed four crimes that prove/suit my point, if we work on the basis that there are say 100 crimes which can result in imprisonment (there maybe more or less but 100 is a nice round number).
Muslims are over represented in 4 out of the 100 possible UK crimes - 4% of all types of crime, not 4% of all crimes.
If they are not over represented in the other 96 crimes, and in some cases maybe even under represented, this would suggest that the volume and frequency of these 4 crimes must be staggering to result in the prison population being almost 4 times their UK population, in percentage terms.
Now maybe it is or they could be over represented in a selection of the 100 listed crimes.
...
Alpinestars said:
Whether they are over represented in the prison population or not, doesn't tell you;
a) anything about the rest of that population, who could all be 100% law abiding citizens, and in a way which the non imprisoned, non Muslim population might not be,
b) the qualitative nature of the crimes committed by those imprisoned. Are the Muslims in prison generally for "low level" crimes versus non "low level" crimes?, and
c) the incidence of crimes by the non imprisoned population, which either go undetected, or don't warrant prison sentences.
You've also pre selected crimes that "Muslims" are over represented in. As an example, are you not overly bothered about any other forms of paedophilia? Is only the MO important to you?
a) agreed that is entirely possible, but unlikely that the only Muslims criminals are the ones in Jail, same as the general non muslim populationa) anything about the rest of that population, who could all be 100% law abiding citizens, and in a way which the non imprisoned, non Muslim population might not be,
b) the qualitative nature of the crimes committed by those imprisoned. Are the Muslims in prison generally for "low level" crimes versus non "low level" crimes?, and
c) the incidence of crimes by the non imprisoned population, which either go undetected, or don't warrant prison sentences.
You've also pre selected crimes that "Muslims" are over represented in. As an example, are you not overly bothered about any other forms of paedophilia? Is only the MO important to you?
b) again that is possible, but Terrorism is not a low level crime, and the 14 jailed in Newcastle for up to 29 years are probably not considered low level criminals. Low level vs non low level probably wouldn't be any different between muslims and non muslims, sentences are the same.
c) is that the same as "a" ?
All paedophilia should be punished according to the law, the MO here is unusual and so is the sheer scale. I think there were 15 jailed in Newcastle, which based on 4% of the population, should have seen 375 non muslims sent to jail over a similar period in Newcastle alone - they weren't our system couldn't cope. My issue with the gangs has always been that we cant say the words, we can talk about all manner of other abuses, policy, catholic, MP's but not the "M" word.
Just a minute are you now agreeing that Muslims are over represented in Child Grooming Abuses ? Whilst I cant be bothered to trawl through the Grooming Gang thread I thought you had been arguing that it was nothing to do with muslims / islam ?
New Car ?
del mar said:
Breadvan72 said:
You have asserted that Muslims are unduly represented in criminality of all kinds. "All manner of criminal activity". It is for you to prove that. You did not say some. You said all kinds, unless "all manner" is supposed to mean something else. . Shoplifting? Securities fraud? Murder? Drink driving? Fly tipping? Coke dealing? Burglary? Need I continue?
Oohh, use of words..Edited by Breadvan72 on Monday 25th September 20:37
There are all manner of people on Pistonheads.
There are some people on Pistonheads
All people are on Pistonheads
I have used "all manner of" to describe a variety of different crimes, not all crimes. I would be very surprised if they were over represented in all types of crime in the UK.
However..
I listed four crimes that prove/suit my point, if we work on the basis that there are say 100 crimes which can result in imprisonment (there maybe more or less but 100 is a nice round number).
Muslims are over represented in 4 out of the 100 possible UK crimes - 4% of all types of crime, not 4% of all crimes.
If they are not over represented in the other 96 crimes, and in some cases maybe even under represented, this would suggest that the volume and frequency of these 4 crimes must be staggering to result in the prison population being almost 4 times their UK population, in percentage terms.
Now maybe it is or they could be over represented in a selection of the 100 listed crimes.
They are the only BAME ethnic group significantly over represented in the Prison Population, Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists are there or thereabouts in regard to percentage of population vs percentage of prison population, so it cant be Racism in the System.
del mar said:
Alpinestars said:
Whether they are over represented in the prison population or not, doesn't tell you;
a) anything about the rest of that population, who could all be 100% law abiding citizens, and in a way which the non imprisoned, non Muslim population might not be,
b) the qualitative nature of the crimes committed by those imprisoned. Are the Muslims in prison generally for "low level" crimes versus non "low level" crimes?, and
c) the incidence of crimes by the non imprisoned population, which either go undetected, or don't warrant prison sentences.
You've also pre selected crimes that "Muslims" are over represented in. As an example, are you not overly bothered about any other forms of paedophilia? Is only the MO important to you?
a) agreed that is entirely possible, but unlikely that the only Muslims criminals are the ones in Jail, same as the general non muslim populationa) anything about the rest of that population, who could all be 100% law abiding citizens, and in a way which the non imprisoned, non Muslim population might not be,
b) the qualitative nature of the crimes committed by those imprisoned. Are the Muslims in prison generally for "low level" crimes versus non "low level" crimes?, and
c) the incidence of crimes by the non imprisoned population, which either go undetected, or don't warrant prison sentences.
You've also pre selected crimes that "Muslims" are over represented in. As an example, are you not overly bothered about any other forms of paedophilia? Is only the MO important to you?
b) again that is possible, but Terrorism is not a low level crime, and the 14 jailed in Newcastle for up to 29 years are probably not considered low level criminals. Low level vs non low level probably wouldn't be any different between muslims and non muslims, sentences are the same.
c) is that the same as "a" ?
All paedophilia should be punished according to the law, the MO here is unusual and so is the sheer scale. I think there were 15 jailed in Newcastle, which based on 4% of the population, should have seen 375 non muslims sent to jail over a similar period in Newcastle alone - they weren't our system couldn't cope. My issue with the gangs has always been that we cant say the words, we can talk about all manner of other abuses, policy, catholic, MP's but not the "M" word.
Just a minute are you now agreeing that Muslims are over represented in Child Grooming Abuses ? Whilst I cant be bothered to trawl through the Grooming Gang thread I thought you had been arguing that it was nothing to do with muslims / islam ?
New Car ?
b) not all Muslims are in prison for terrorism. Do you have stats to show why each demographic is in prison?
To address your last point. It may be too subtle for you, but I don't believe there is a link between the gangs and Islam, ie, members of the gangs have overwhelmingly been Muslim, but there's nothing in Islam or the reasons for the rapes, to point to them doing it because they are Muslim. It does not follow that they are Muslims, and therefore are committing the crimes because they are Muslim. It's just as valid to say they do it because. they are British, of Asian origin, men - which is the case. Hope you understand the subtlety. But if you have facts to prove the cause of the effect, I'm all ears. And whilst you're researching, why do aethesits/non Muslims commit sexual crimes against children? There must be some overarching "Sky fairy" telling them to do it as well if your assertion is true? Is only gang paedophilia condoned by Muslims? Because they don't appear to be over represented in prepubescent or same sex paedophilia, where other groups dominate.
New car? As a car nut, as opposed to a political point scorer, where do I start.
Alpinestars said:
a) and c) Some low level crimes which are not imprisonable, and indeed many imprisonable crimes, go undetected or even unpunished (see one of the other threads on NPE) The prison population stats don't show who commits those crimes.
b) not all Muslims are in prison for terrorism. Do you have stats to show why each demographic is in prison?
To address your last point. It may be too subtle for you, but I don't believe there is a link between the gangs and Islam, ie, members of the gangs have overwhelmingly been Muslim, but there's nothing in Islam or the reasons for the rapes, to point to them doing it because they are Muslim. It does not follow that they are Muslims, and therefore are committing the crimes because they are Muslim. It's just as valid to say they do it because. they are British, of Asian origin, men - which is the case. Hope you understand the subtlety. But if you have facts to prove the cause of the effect, I'm all ears. And whilst you're researching, why do aethesits/non Muslims commit sexual crimes against children? There must be some overarching "Sky fairy" telling them to do it as well if your assertion is true? Is only gang paedophilia condoned by Muslims? Because they don't appear to be over represented in prepubescent or same sex paedophilia, where other groups dominate.
New car? As a car nut, as opposed to a political point scorer, where do I start.
Of course not all Muslims are in jail for terrorism, I am not sure that anybody suggested they were, but they are over represented in the class of crime.b) not all Muslims are in prison for terrorism. Do you have stats to show why each demographic is in prison?
To address your last point. It may be too subtle for you, but I don't believe there is a link between the gangs and Islam, ie, members of the gangs have overwhelmingly been Muslim, but there's nothing in Islam or the reasons for the rapes, to point to them doing it because they are Muslim. It does not follow that they are Muslims, and therefore are committing the crimes because they are Muslim. It's just as valid to say they do it because. they are British, of Asian origin, men - which is the case. Hope you understand the subtlety. But if you have facts to prove the cause of the effect, I'm all ears. And whilst you're researching, why do aethesits/non Muslims commit sexual crimes against children? There must be some overarching "Sky fairy" telling them to do it as well if your assertion is true? Is only gang paedophilia condoned by Muslims? Because they don't appear to be over represented in prepubescent or same sex paedophilia, where other groups dominate.
New car? As a car nut, as opposed to a political point scorer, where do I start.
You are correct there is nothing in their religious texts that tells them to abuse young girls, just as nothing tells the Catholic Priest to abuse young boys. But we can call one a Catholic and the other British / Asian / Men.
I believe the way they are brought up lends itself to them having an unhealthy view / opinion of young white girls, or even young Sikh girls, so it is a consequence of a Muslim upbringing which has created this problem, rather than Islam itself.
Catholic priests do it because they sexual activity is very limited / controlled and they have only ever seen the male form, it is a product of their upbringing / training. If they were allowed to live a normal healthy sex life this probably wouldn't happen as much as it does.
As for other paedophiles, there are a lot of sick people in the world, some will do it because of something that has happened in their upbringing, people are forever looking for some trigger that has cause this behaviour some will do it because they enjoy it.
Nobody does it because God or a book tells them to.
del mar said:
Alpinestars said:
a) and c) Some low level crimes which are not imprisonable, and indeed many imprisonable crimes, go undetected or even unpunished (see one of the other threads on NPE) The prison population stats don't show who commits those crimes.
b) not all Muslims are in prison for terrorism. Do you have stats to show why each demographic is in prison?
To address your last point. It may be too subtle for you, but I don't believe there is a link between the gangs and Islam, ie, members of the gangs have overwhelmingly been Muslim, but there's nothing in Islam or the reasons for the rapes, to point to them doing it because they are Muslim. It does not follow that they are Muslims, and therefore are committing the crimes because they are Muslim. It's just as valid to say they do it because. they are British, of Asian origin, men - which is the case. Hope you understand the subtlety. But if you have facts to prove the cause of the effect, I'm all ears. And whilst you're researching, why do aethesits/non Muslims commit sexual crimes against children? There must be some overarching "Sky fairy" telling them to do it as well if your assertion is true? Is only gang paedophilia condoned by Muslims? Because they don't appear to be over represented in prepubescent or same sex paedophilia, where other groups dominate.
New car? As a car nut, as opposed to a political point scorer, where do I start.
Of course not all Muslims are in jail for terrorism, I am not sure that anybody suggested they were, but they are over represented in the class of crime.b) not all Muslims are in prison for terrorism. Do you have stats to show why each demographic is in prison?
To address your last point. It may be too subtle for you, but I don't believe there is a link between the gangs and Islam, ie, members of the gangs have overwhelmingly been Muslim, but there's nothing in Islam or the reasons for the rapes, to point to them doing it because they are Muslim. It does not follow that they are Muslims, and therefore are committing the crimes because they are Muslim. It's just as valid to say they do it because. they are British, of Asian origin, men - which is the case. Hope you understand the subtlety. But if you have facts to prove the cause of the effect, I'm all ears. And whilst you're researching, why do aethesits/non Muslims commit sexual crimes against children? There must be some overarching "Sky fairy" telling them to do it as well if your assertion is true? Is only gang paedophilia condoned by Muslims? Because they don't appear to be over represented in prepubescent or same sex paedophilia, where other groups dominate.
New car? As a car nut, as opposed to a political point scorer, where do I start.
You are correct there is nothing in their religious texts that tells them to abuse young girls, just as nothing tells the Catholic Priest to abuse young boys. But we can call one a Catholic and the other British / Asian / Men.
I believe the way they are brought up lends itself to them having an unhealthy view / opinion of young white girls, or even young Sikh girls, so it is a consequence of a Muslim upbringing which has created this problem, rather than Islam itself.
Catholic priests do it because they sexual activity is very limited / controlled and they have only ever seen the male form, it is a product of their upbringing / training. If they were allowed to live a normal healthy sex life this probably wouldn't happen as much as it does.
As for other paedophiles, there are a lot of sick people in the world, some will do it because of something that has happened in their upbringing, people are forever looking for some trigger that has cause this behaviour some will do it because they enjoy it.
Nobody does it because God or a book tells them to.
They also abuse Muslim girls. What's your explanation for that?
e30m3Mark said:
Alpinestars said:
So it's not religious?
They also abuse Muslim girls. What's your explanation for that?
Isn't it more likely that they just abuse girls? Any girls that they come into contact with and that race or religion doesn't determine whether or not they're subsequent victims?They also abuse Muslim girls. What's your explanation for that?
e30m3Mark said:
Alpinestars said:
So it's not religious?
They also abuse Muslim girls. What's your explanation for that?
Isn't it more likely that they just abuse girls? Any girls that they come into contact with and that race or religion doesn't determine whether or not they're subsequent victims?They also abuse Muslim girls. What's your explanation for that?
Like this peado
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05gh2kb
e30m3Mark said:
Alpinestars said:
So it's not religious?
They also abuse Muslim girls. What's your explanation for that?
Isn't it more likely that they just abuse girls? Any girls that they come into contact with and that race or religion doesn't determine whether or not they're subsequent victims?They also abuse Muslim girls. What's your explanation for that?
Shay HTFC said:
Nope. The white girls are basically easy targets. No one really cares about them, their parents probably don't even know where they are etc, whereas the Asian girls have 15 family members on alert everytime they leave the front door!
I'd suggest most white parents (or most parents regardless of colour) know where their daughters/sons are and (equally importantly) that they are safe.The girls these perverts targeted were the ones who were vulnerable , in care homes, or from homes where there wasn't anybody able to look out for them. Religion or colour had no part in it.
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