Labour Conference....total maddness or even possable ?
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
Momentum can GTFO. I am an Attlee fan. Blair sucks, Corbyn sucks, Attlee rules. Sadly, he is long dead.
Atlee was a massive knobhead.It was the Atlee Labour government in 1947 that sold the UK's jet engine secrets to the Soviet Union when they agreed to sell 25 Nene Jet engines on the proviso they would only use them for none military purposes, much to the disgust of the USA I might add.
Stalin when he requested his ministers to approach the UK to buy their jet engines is reported to have said "What fool will sell us his secrets?" That would be Atlee and Labour Comrade Stalin came the response from the UK.
What happened next was the Russians reverse engineered the engine and stuck it in the MIG-15, that appeared for the first time in the Korean war and outperformed the UK and USA aircraft by 100MPH because of their lighter airframes with zero pilot safety (who gives a damn about Russian pilot mortality was the Kremlin MO), so the Southern Korea/UN forces found themselves outgunned in the air, that led to the loss of several B-29 bombers which led to the cancelation of daytime bombing missions.
This one act of Atlee's Labour could be the reason why we now have the standoff in Korea. Labour, f
kwitery for the many, not the few.Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 26th September 01:56
Breadvan72 said:
That is possible, but I am not sure without researching the point. Land Rover was initially aimed at farmers, to help revitalise agriculture. An early Land Rover is basically a road usable tractor with passenger and load capacity. The military did, however, take an interest in Land Rovers early on, and they quickly showed their usefulness in military and civilian applications in places such as Africa and Australia.
This video tells the story. https://youtu.be/bplWL6kr3jMjsf said:
Atlee was a massive knobhead.
It was the Atlee Labour government in 1947 that sold the UK's jet engine secrets to the Soviet Union when they agreed to sell 25 Nene Jet engines on the proviso they would only use them for none military purposes, much to the disgust of the USA I might add.
Stalin when he requested his ministers to approach the UK to buy their jet engines is reported to have said "What fool will sell us his secrets?" That would be Atlee and Labour Comrade Stalin came the response from the UK.
What happened next was the Russians reverse engineered the engine and stuck it in the MIG-15, that appeared for the first time in the Korean war and outperformed the UK and USA aircraft by 100MPH because of their lighter airframes with zero pilot safety (who gives a damn about Russian pilot mortality was the Kremlin MO), so the Southern Korea/UN forces found themselves outgunned in the air, that led to the loss of several B-29 bombers which led to the cancelation of daytime bombing missions.
This one act of Atlee's Labour could be the reason why we now have the standoff in Korea. Labour, fkwitery for the many, not the few.
That it was one of the most ludicrous and historically ill informed statements that I have read on PH for a while, and given that PH is a leading World Heritage Centre of ludicrous and historically ill informed statements, that is quite an accolade. The Korean War and its consequences are all down to the Russians being ready with some MiG 15s? Really? It is hard to know where to begin in debunking such a ridiculous claim, and frankly I CBA even to start. Dude, read some books, dude. It was the Atlee Labour government in 1947 that sold the UK's jet engine secrets to the Soviet Union when they agreed to sell 25 Nene Jet engines on the proviso they would only use them for none military purposes, much to the disgust of the USA I might add.
Stalin when he requested his ministers to approach the UK to buy their jet engines is reported to have said "What fool will sell us his secrets?" That would be Atlee and Labour Comrade Stalin came the response from the UK.
What happened next was the Russians reverse engineered the engine and stuck it in the MIG-15, that appeared for the first time in the Korean war and outperformed the UK and USA aircraft by 100MPH because of their lighter airframes with zero pilot safety (who gives a damn about Russian pilot mortality was the Kremlin MO), so the Southern Korea/UN forces found themselves outgunned in the air, that led to the loss of several B-29 bombers which led to the cancelation of daytime bombing missions.
This one act of Atlee's Labour could be the reason why we now have the standoff in Korea. Labour, f
kwitery for the many, not the few.Edited by jsf on Tuesday 26th September 01:56
Also, you write off all of the achievements of the Attlee government because it gave the Soviets a slight leg up in obtaining a technology that they would have got anyway a bit later? Yes, that is very balanced. NHS? Pah! Education Act 1945? Pah! Children Act 1948? Pah! National Parks? Pah! First ever town and country planning system? Pah! Indian independence? Pah! Berlin Airlift? Pah! Festival of Britain? Pah! But, oh noes, they gave the Russians jet engines!
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 26th September 07:38
Worth a read (the book, I mean, but if short of time, read the review). Attlee towers above other all C20 PMs, Churchill included.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/01/citi...
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/01/citi...
The UK came out of WWII completely broke. It was destitute. There were plans to close schools in order to put the children to work in the countryside, mainly in the fields. Yet his government steered us out of those times, selling austerity to the country.
After WWI the country, whilst in financial difficulty, was nowhere near as badly off yet the then government made a pigs ear of its financial management.
It is fair to say that Atlee's government was a team effort. The cabinet, despite being a mix of beliefs and desires, worked well together - we could do with that now. But Atlee was in charge.
He made mistakes, some of which were bewildering. He realised that the country needed the financial support of the USA, all support ending with the war. That was a massive error on their behalf. However, he sent Keynes to negotiate; an intellectual trying to talk sense to senators. Like that would work.
One of the great PMs this country has ever had. There are arguments to suggest the best. He had nothing to work with yet provided us with a firm foundation to base the swinging 60s on.
It's obviously such a terrible shame he was labour.
After WWI the country, whilst in financial difficulty, was nowhere near as badly off yet the then government made a pigs ear of its financial management.
It is fair to say that Atlee's government was a team effort. The cabinet, despite being a mix of beliefs and desires, worked well together - we could do with that now. But Atlee was in charge.
He made mistakes, some of which were bewildering. He realised that the country needed the financial support of the USA, all support ending with the war. That was a massive error on their behalf. However, he sent Keynes to negotiate; an intellectual trying to talk sense to senators. Like that would work.
One of the great PMs this country has ever had. There are arguments to suggest the best. He had nothing to work with yet provided us with a firm foundation to base the swinging 60s on.
It's obviously such a terrible shame he was labour.
Keynes was by most accounts a good negotiator and a practical realist, but the US held all the cards and played deliberate hardball in pursuit of wide US policy objectives that were as it turned out very misguided.
I would rate Attlee as the number one PM of the C20 and possibly the number one PM ever. He is up there with Pitt 2, Gladstone, Disraeli, Churchill, and Lloyd George. His cabinet team were mostly fab.
I am sorry for being rude to you about Charles I on another thread, Derek. I was a tad astonished that someone so historically well read as you had been, it seemed to me, blindsided on an important one like that, but (joke!) you get a pass for getting the law of the constitution wrong as you used to be a cozzer (joke!) .
I would rate Attlee as the number one PM of the C20 and possibly the number one PM ever. He is up there with Pitt 2, Gladstone, Disraeli, Churchill, and Lloyd George. His cabinet team were mostly fab.
I am sorry for being rude to you about Charles I on another thread, Derek. I was a tad astonished that someone so historically well read as you had been, it seemed to me, blindsided on an important one like that, but (joke!) you get a pass for getting the law of the constitution wrong as you used to be a cozzer (joke!) .
The BBC political editor need for a bodyguard at the conference story is chunking along quite nicely.
More turmoil for the cuddly lefties who hate the "Tory stooge" Laura Kuenssberg because not every word she speaks is effervescing with love for their leader.
But according to Harriet Harmon on R4 earlier, it's only men that that have posted "hate" towards her or any female involved in politics.
Astonishing.
More turmoil for the cuddly lefties who hate the "Tory stooge" Laura Kuenssberg because not every word she speaks is effervescing with love for their leader.
But according to Harriet Harmon on R4 earlier, it's only men that that have posted "hate" towards her or any female involved in politics.
Astonishing.
Has anyone mentioned in here the bizarre demands of Dianne Abbott that some constituencies should only select Black or Ethnic minority candidates for the shortlist for the Labour Party candidate?
It was something I saw on the news on maybe Sunday.
I don't think it is the right way to go, even if there is the desire to increase the represenation of black and ethnic minority people with MPs of similar background. I also don't know if Jeremy Corbyn has given his backing to this
It was something I saw on the news on maybe Sunday.
I don't think it is the right way to go, even if there is the desire to increase the represenation of black and ethnic minority people with MPs of similar background. I also don't know if Jeremy Corbyn has given his backing to this
Blair, Mandy, Adonis, all that lot - they should be in jail for all the PFI and assorted scammery and book cooking. Blair should get consecutive jail time for illegal warmaking. He gets mitigation for doing some good stuff, including some just war stuff in Sierra Leone and Kosovo, but also for some domestic good stuff eg minimum wage and civil partnerships and school investment, but not academies.
Breadvan72 said:
Blair, Mandy, Adonis, all that lot - they should be in jail for all the PFI and assorted scammery and book cooking. Blair should get consecutive jail time for illegal warmaking. He gets mitigation for doing some good stuff, including some just war stuff in Sierra Leone and Kosovo, but also for some domestic good stuff eg minimum wage and civil partnerships and school investment, but not academies.
+ paternity leaveBreadvan72 said:
Blair, Mandy, Adonis, all that lot - they should be in jail for all the PFI and assorted scammery and book cooking. Blair should get consecutive jail time for illegal warmaking. He gets mitigation for doing some good stuff, including some just war stuff in Sierra Leone and Kosovo, but also for some domestic good stuff eg minimum wage and civil partnerships and school investment, but not academies.
Agree with most of that, but why let Brown off the hook? Aside from pissing our national gold up the wall, he enacted what is, in many respects, the single most nihilistic and destructive piece of legislation for pensions, destroying, in an instant, any propensity to save and necessitating multiple further legislation (ongoing) to try to redress the issue.
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