Labour Conference....total maddness or even possable ?
Discussion
Only about one generation before mine the ability to buy a house was very limited, why is home ownership seem as a right for generations to come ?
Massive price rises in property value cannot go on for ever.
It is not the case in many advanced nations where renting is very much a more common form of housing across a wide range of age groups.
Maybe the new generations will need to change their expectations ?
Massive price rises in property value cannot go on for ever.
It is not the case in many advanced nations where renting is very much a more common form of housing across a wide range of age groups.
Maybe the new generations will need to change their expectations ?
Stickyfinger said:
Only about one generation before mine the ability to buy a house was very limited, why is home ownership seem as a right for generations to come ?
Massive price rises in property value cannot go on for ever.
It is not the case in many advanced nations where renting is very much a more common form of housing across a wide range of age groups.
Maybe the new generations will need to change their expectations ?
Exactly and they will. Doesn't stop people worrying about it. In Australasia, renting is very much a big negative and home ownership very much ingrained in society. Only now it is even more unattainable than it is here. Auckland prices are more expensive than London. Equal in absolute $$ but far more expensive based on earningsMassive price rises in property value cannot go on for ever.
It is not the case in many advanced nations where renting is very much a more common form of housing across a wide range of age groups.
Maybe the new generations will need to change their expectations ?
Stickyfinger said:
Only about one generation before mine the ability to buy a house was very limited, why is home ownership seem as a right for generations to come ?
Massive price rises in property value cannot go on for ever.
It is not the case in many advanced nations where renting is very much a more common form of housing across a wide range of age groups.
Maybe the new generations will need to change their expectations ?
Well, until democracy takes hold. I predict, without major policy changes over the next 20 years, that my generation will look entirely unfavourably on their parents generation's final salary pensions, 65/67 year old retirement age, property empire, etc.Massive price rises in property value cannot go on for ever.
It is not the case in many advanced nations where renting is very much a more common form of housing across a wide range of age groups.
Maybe the new generations will need to change their expectations ?
The entitlement problem is not contained entirely within my generation. Final salary pensions for example are wholly unsustainable and cruel on new entrants to businesses that were historically advertising them. They should be made illegal regardless of promises. Pension schemes offered from employers nowadays are woeful. 5% and 5% is typical and considered generous. Be in no doubt, salaries of younger employees and the fringe benefits also offered through employment are being curtailed to pay for such unsustainable schemes.
The problem we have is what my generation can afford to buy are gimmicks and the encouragement to do so is huge, imagine if everyone under 35 decided to stop buying and save, the economy would collapse. However Xboxs, PCP deal Audis, holidays are all things with no long term value. On an individual level; save, sacrifice, buy land/a home. It's all possible if you're talented and capable enough. On a population level we have built an entirely unsustainable situation that is extracting money from many and sending it to few.
Next comes the bigger problem imo. Property growth has outstripped salary growth. Over an extended period this puts more money in fewer people's pockets and it'll take significant state intervention to deal with this. On an average salary it could easily take 10-15 years to save enough for a deposit, nevermind paying down a mortgage of 25-30 years.
citizensm1th said:
to translate for the rest of us sidekicks cant find such a post either
Not exactly those words...crankedup said:
Never mind about upping or lowering rates of personal taxation continue closing great sinkholes in the taxation system. If you can afford good accountants they will soon squirrel away vast sums from the prying eyes and grasping hands of our mate the taxman.
crankedup said:
59% of taxation on a taxable gross of very little £, these guys and ladies can afford good accountants who have mastered the dark art of tax avoidance. So let's cut the bullst, it's the plebs who pay the greatest % from thier income, up the lowest amount of money.
But the (incorrect) inference is clear.Roman Rhodes said:
Yes, I regret getting sucked into pointless bickering with the likes of sidicks (although I see that, inevitably, he continues to bark through his front teeth with such mania that even his exacting standards have failed and he attributed a quote of yours to me).
It was a simple observation: I don't believe there is a vast mass of people wanting to deprive the "rich" of their things. Some, but not that many.
From a personal perspective I pay higher rate income tax, CGT and corporation tax. Could I pay more without affecting my lifestyle? Yes. Do I want to? The caveat will always be 'what is the objective?' Government can do some things well. I don't support a general ramping up of a simple take from the rich and give to the poor, but real (and perceived) inequality can be corrosive. I do support striving to have less poor, less imbalance regionally, less homeless and a greater opportunity for those from disadvantaged backgrounds (yes I know it sounds as though I nicked that from one of Mr Morley's contestants c. 1973). If policies that achieve this are introduced and it costs me more money I don't have a problem.
We seem to lack politicians with vision. Corbyn brings nothing new (apart from surprise that the opposition are making him seem credible), May is weak (and weird to many) and has the needless poison chalice of Brexit to deal with. Woe is us, except the sun is shining the birds are singing, there's a bloke sleeping in the underpass and I need to go and tell him what he's been doing wrong. Maybe I'll bump into sid doing his rounds.
Oh look, the goalposts have moved...It was a simple observation: I don't believe there is a vast mass of people wanting to deprive the "rich" of their things. Some, but not that many.
From a personal perspective I pay higher rate income tax, CGT and corporation tax. Could I pay more without affecting my lifestyle? Yes. Do I want to? The caveat will always be 'what is the objective?' Government can do some things well. I don't support a general ramping up of a simple take from the rich and give to the poor, but real (and perceived) inequality can be corrosive. I do support striving to have less poor, less imbalance regionally, less homeless and a greater opportunity for those from disadvantaged backgrounds (yes I know it sounds as though I nicked that from one of Mr Morley's contestants c. 1973). If policies that achieve this are introduced and it costs me more money I don't have a problem.
We seem to lack politicians with vision. Corbyn brings nothing new (apart from surprise that the opposition are making him seem credible), May is weak (and weird to many) and has the needless poison chalice of Brexit to deal with. Woe is us, except the sun is shining the birds are singing, there's a bloke sleeping in the underpass and I need to go and tell him what he's been doing wrong. Maybe I'll bump into sid doing his rounds.
desolate said:
sidicks said:
Not exactly those words...
But the (incorrect) inference is clear.
It's quite sad really.But the (incorrect) inference is clear.
(If only citizensm1th hadn't taunted me, I might not have bothered)!
Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 3rd October 18:32
sidicks said:
desolate said:
sidicks said:
Not exactly those words...
But the (incorrect) inference is clear.
It's quite sad really.But the (incorrect) inference is clear.
(If only citizensm1th hadn't taunted me, I might not have bothered)!
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 3rd October 18:32
Burwood said:
I can't see how my children will buy houses unless I help them out.
With due respect:They work hard at school like I did.
They make themselves a decent career like I did.
They make a fair few sacrifices like I did.
They buy a crappy little fixer-upper like I did.
They fix it up like I did, working on it in the evenings & at weekends rather than going out partying.
They slowly move up the scale like I did.
They won't immediately buy a smart place in a nice area whilst still having all the luxuries unless you help them, certainly, but they can do things for themselves.
Rovinghawk said:
Burwood said:
I can't see how my children will buy houses unless I help them out.
With due respect:They work hard at school like I did.
They make themselves a decent career like I did.
They make a fair few sacrifices like I did.
They buy a crappy little fixer-upper like I did.
They fix it up like I did, working on it in the evenings & at weekends rather than going out partying.
They slowly move up the scale like I did.
They won't immediately buy a smart place in a nice area whilst still having all the luxuries unless you help them, certainly, but they can do things for themselves.
Don't look at the problems just preach about how good you are.
Every generation's parents have no clue how their own offspring will cope. So they work as hard as they can to give them a leg up.
Social mobility continues to improve. As do standards of living. Despite the previous generation not knowing how they'll do it.
This won't be universal. It never is. There'll be winners and losers. But I don't believe the margins are really any wider today than they were for my folks. Or them for theirs.
Pensions might be a sizeable differentiator. But I've been aware that State pensions will be worth feck all when I retire for at least 25yrs. And that gold plated company pensions are a thing of the past for not a lot less. But that's plannable.
Our concerns for our kids are timeless. It's what spurs us on to do things for them.
Social mobility continues to improve. As do standards of living. Despite the previous generation not knowing how they'll do it.
This won't be universal. It never is. There'll be winners and losers. But I don't believe the margins are really any wider today than they were for my folks. Or them for theirs.
Pensions might be a sizeable differentiator. But I've been aware that State pensions will be worth feck all when I retire for at least 25yrs. And that gold plated company pensions are a thing of the past for not a lot less. But that's plannable.
Our concerns for our kids are timeless. It's what spurs us on to do things for them.
John145 said:
Don't look at the problems just preach about how good you are.
It's not about 'good' it's about getting on with life rather than whingeing about how hard life is & expecting to be spoon-fed as an adult.It doesn't come easy? Tough titty. It never did come easy.
Problems? Money was never so cheap to borrow, unless you know different. Suitable housing was never so easy to locate due to the joys of the interweb. Don't look for problems, look for ways to deal with them.
In order to acquire a property one has to get off one's arse rather than complaining about how unfair it all is.
Here endeth the sermon.
desolate said:
sidicks said:
desolate said:
sidicks said:
Not exactly those words...
But the (incorrect) inference is clear.
It's quite sad really.But the (incorrect) inference is clear.
(If only citizensm1th hadn't taunted me, I might not have bothered)!
Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 3rd October 18:32
and he still cant admit he was wrong to assert what he did
pin head dancing at its best
citizensm1th said:
it is indeed quite sad, just how easy it is to play sidekick
and he still cant admit he was wrong to assert what he did
Which words are you struggling with?and he still cant admit he was wrong to assert what he did
sidicks said:
Not exactly those words...
citizensm1th said:
pin head dancing at its best
And which words of his suggest that the people he is referring to are in the minority?Crankedup said:
59% of taxation on a taxable gross of very little £, these guys and ladies can afford good accountants who have mastered the dark art of tax avoidance. So let's cut the bullst, it's the plebs who pay the greatest % from thier income, up the lowest amount of money.
He's still wrong. And so are you for trying to defend him.sidicks said:
citizensm1th said:
it is indeed quite sad, just how easy it is to play sidekick
and he still cant admit he was wrong to assert what he did
Which words are you struggling with?and he still cant admit he was wrong to assert what he did
sidicks said:
Not exactly those words...
citizensm1th said:
pin head dancing at its best
And which words of his suggest that the people he is referring to are in the minority?Crankedup said:
59% of taxation on a taxable gross of very little £, these guys and ladies can afford good accountants who have mastered the dark art of tax avoidance. So let's cut the bullst, it's the plebs who pay the greatest % from thier income, up the lowest amount of money.
He's still wrong. And so are you for trying to defend him.sidicks said:
citizensm1th said:
it is indeed quite sad, just how easy it is to play sidekick
and he still cant admit he was wrong to assert what he did
Which words are you struggling with?and he still cant admit he was wrong to assert what he did
sidicks said:
Not exactly those words...
citizensm1th said:
pin head dancing at its best
And which words of his suggest that the people he is referring to are in the minority?Crankedup said:
59% of taxation on a taxable gross of very little £, these guys and ladies can afford good accountants who have mastered the dark art of tax avoidance. So let's cut the bullst, it's the plebs who pay the greatest % from thier income, up the lowest amount of money.
He's still wrong. And so are you for trying to defend him.so bothered about accuracy in others peoples posts but when it comes to your own
"Not exactly those words..."
if strictly had a category for pin head dancing you would win
citizensm1th said:
ahhh you are a funny little man
so bothered about accuracy in others peoples posts but when it comes to your own
"Not exactly those words..."
if strictly had a category for pin head dancing you would win
Which bit are you struggling with?so bothered about accuracy in others peoples posts but when it comes to your own
"Not exactly those words..."
if strictly had a category for pin head dancing you would win
He didn't use exactly those words but the message he was trying to portray was exactly the same.
In fact, the words he used could suggest he thinks that none of these people actually pay these taxes. But even you might find that preposterous?!
Whatever, he’s still wrong.
Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 3rd October 20:34
sidicks said:
desolate said:
You are embarrassing yourself Sidicks, and I am sure I am not the only person who thinks so.
So you agree with. Crankedup's claim?Having said that, this is the time when I look over your shoulder and excuse myself as I have seen someone more interesting.
So you may as well drop it, as I really don't think anyone cares.
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