Labour Conference....total maddness or even possable ?

[sidicks]

desolate said:

The issue at hand is you making stuff up.

Having said that, this is the time when I look over your shoulder and excuse myself as I have seen someone more interesting.

So you may as well drop it, as I really don't think anyone cares.

Making stuff up? His comments suggest almost exactly what I said they did, I just got the previse words wrong.

It’s unlike you to be so pedantic!

[Burwood]

sidicks said:

desolate said:

The issue at hand is you making stuff up.

Having said that, this is the time when I look over your shoulder and excuse myself as I have seen someone more interesting.

So you may as well drop it, as I really don't think anyone cares.

Making stuff up? His comments suggest almost exactly what I said they did, I just got the previse words wrong.

It’s unlike you to be so pedantic!

Speaking from personal experience, perhaps it’s due to the fact you can go for long periods of cordial discussion, only to turn around and be abrasive/obtuse. I think you post a lot of sense but you don’t know when to move on

[drainbrain]

Burwood said:

Speaking from personal experience, perhaps it’s due to the fact you can go for long periods of cordial discussion , only to turn around and be abrasive/obtuse. I think you post a lot of sense but you don’t know when to move on

I challenge you to produce an example of the highlighted bit....just one will do.

[sidicks]

Burwood said:

Speaking from personal experience, perhaps it’s due to the fact you can go for long periods of cordial discussion, only to turn around and be abrasive/obtuse. I think you post a lot of sense but you don’t know when to move on

So how do you interpret what cranked up said?

[anonymous-user]

sidicks said:

So how do you interpret what cranked up said?

Serious question sidicks - are you autistic?

[sidicks]

Roman Rhodes said:

Serious question sidicks - are you autistic?

Serious question - why don’t you address the issues under discussion?

[anonymous-user]

Is this where some r tedious posters take pot shots at each other. Presumably in the race to the bottom to show their superiority

[B'stard Child]

It's still going - someone send me a PM when it's finished - if they could do it also in the welshbeef thread too it's be handy

[anonymous-user]

sidicks said:

Serious question - why don’t you address the issues under discussion?

Discussion? I think techiedave addresses that above.

You seem to be the common denominator when threads degenerate into petty bickering and point scoring. It was a genuine question. You can tell me to mind my own business but you do seem to have communication issues, that's all.

[Burwood]

techiedave said:

Is this where some r tedious posters take pot shots at each other. Presumably in the race to the bottom to show their superiority

sadly

[Burwood]

sidicks said:

Roman Rhodes said:

Serious question sidicks - are you autistic?

Serious question - why don’t you address the issues under discussion?

Who cares. When I was younger I would never concede if I thought I was right. I realised some time ago if I wanted to stay married and have any meaningful relationship with friends, family, I just had to let it go. I realised that being rich, incredibly smart and handsome didn’t mean st If no one wanted to be around me. Quietly I know I’m always right though

[Digga]

johnfm said:

Breadvan72 said:

Roman Rhodes said:

On a sort of related point, I was in Epernay a couple of weeks ago quaffing Champagne with some wealthy people (I thought it would be grim, but it turned out OK). Inevitably some talk of politics, Brexit etc. during the quaffing and nosebagging. From this set (8) of people only one didn't think we had some concerning issues in the UK regarding inclusiveness and the stagnation of opportunity. None had been born with quaffing rights, they were from a variety of backgrounds and generally felt the opportunities they had weren't so available today. They felt they had to invest more in their kids to get them to where they had been themselves. Fine if you have the money to invest, not fine if you don't. The one exception was the chap who had moved to Jersey because he didn't like paying tax (he didn't like Jersey either). The problems he had with immigrants/refugees/single mothers/feckless poor were astonishing!

Yep, Jersey is a shocking for underclass and immigrant scummery. It makes Stockton on Tees look like Belgravia. The poor bloke, how does he cope?

I wasn't born to quaffing rights, but now quaff like an Olympic level quaffer in training for International Quaffing Week, and I share the concern of your quaff buddies that it seems less easy for those born without the quaff to gain quaffing licences these days.

It 'seems' like that or it is like that?

Where's the evidence?

If we're going to discuss how things 'seem' - let's look how these people who have built quaffing rights may have got them:

selling goods/services to punters or businesses is basically it. Whether it be importing widgets, making and selling widgets, or cleaning windows or whatever - has any of that got any harder for youg 20-somethings? I don't think so.

If anything, barriers to entry to many things have disappeared with technology. How many of us back in the day could have made films without lots of ££££?

Now short films can be shot on very cheap video cameras and edited on a £400 Mac. 15 years ago you needed a film camera, film stock, film processing, telecine, offline editing, online editing etc etc (ask me how I know).

Same with software/computing. Youngsters with zero capital can very cheaply acquire the means to write apps. That was not really that easy 20 years ago.

Recruitment - a licence for many to print money with zero barrier to entry.

So, while some parts of getting ahead have got more difficult in some regions (housing affordability or low skill factory jobs), many other opportunities abound that did not exist 'in our day'.

Post GFC, there is a problem with lending - less so now to individuals, but certainly still to SMEs.

If you had capital and investments, the years since the GFC have been pretty good, because you can still run businesses - the economny has been okay for many years - and if you have invested in equities, QE has gifted you (unless you are spectacularly unlucky or inept) some very significant gains.

Lending to SMEs stayed low for a long time and, even now, is not recovering for the very smallest firms:



Hence why you see things like this, which also has a knock-in effect on housing supply and prices too:



The economy needs 'new' SMEs to grow, either by these SME's themselves growing (and buying from other businesses in the economy) or by their acquisition by larger businesses, which then grow. Here is where many of the newly-minted Quaffers are made. Or not, as the case currently is.

[anonymous-user]

One route to quaffage is to enter a profession. I started out a right scruff, got a profession, and became a quaff-meister.

But look at this :-

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-research-un...

Govreport said:

The report finds that access to Britain’s professions remain dominated by those from more privileged backgrounds. But even when people from working class backgrounds manage to break into a professional career they face an earnings penalty compared to colleagues who come from better-off backgrounds.

[citizensm1th]

Breadvan72 said:

One route to quaffage is to enter a profession. I started out a right scruff, got a profession, and became a quaff-meister.

But look at this :-

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-research-un...

Govreport said:

The report finds that access to Britain’s professions remain dominated by those from more privileged backgrounds. But even when people from working class backgrounds manage to break into a professional career they face an earnings penalty compared to colleagues who come from better-off backgrounds.

count your blessings your not a working class woman

[Murph7355]

Breadvan72 said:

One route to quaffage is to enter a profession. I started out a right scruff, got a profession, and became a quaff-meister.

But look at this :-

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-research-un...

Govreport said:

The report finds that access to Britain’s professions remain dominated by those from more privileged backgrounds. But even when people from working class backgrounds manage to break into a professional career they face an earnings penalty compared to colleagues who come from better-off backgrounds.

It also notes

article said:

The report says those from poorer backgrounds may be less likely to ask for pay rises, have less access to networks and work opportunities or, in some cases, exclude themselves from promotion for fear of not ‘fitting in’. Other explanations for the ‘class pay gap’ could include conscious or unconscious discrimination or more subtle employment processes which lead to ‘cultural matching’ in the workplace.

So nothing definitive on why this gap exists. As a chippy Northerner from a working class background (I think. Not sure if it formally fits "non-privileged"), I'd suggest that the biggest factors noted are the first few rather than any notion of discrimination.

Networks are important, but can be built. Confidence is key, and you can't teach anyone that sadly. Being around confidence and positivity rubs off on you IME. So it's not really a surprise that people from the demographics mentioned do "better" (though we're firmly in the realms of statistical averages masking a multitude of causes).

[anonymous-user]

I am not suggesting that there is discrimination. On the contrary, many elite universities and swanky enterprises are keen to recruit people from diverse backgrounds. The problems are of access to good quality education, funding, and, as you say, confidence and self belief.

I am buying my daughter unfair advantage by paying for her to be the sort of well educated but also poised and confident public school kid that used to make me feel a bit nervy when as a gauche working class* Midlander I was first at university. Heck, 36 years on and I still have Imposter Syndrome, but I deal with it. Quaffing helps, so pass the Malescot St Exupery if you don't mind.



* Strictly speaking, having been born working class, I was probably lower middle class by the time I was 18, as my parents had been doing the social mobility gig, but I still didn't know how to write thank you notes to Dowager Duchesses.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 4th October 11:55

[Digga]

citizensm1th said:

Breadvan72 said:

One route to quaffage is to enter a profession. I started out a right scruff, got a profession, and became a quaff-meister.

But look at this :-

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-research-un...

Govreport said:

The report finds that access to Britain’s professions remain dominated by those from more privileged backgrounds. But even when people from working class backgrounds manage to break into a professional career they face an earnings penalty compared to colleagues who come from better-off backgrounds.

count your blessings your not a working class woman

I think, for that subset of the population, they are working against multiple barriers. Not only outright discrimination - on sex and also background and their attendant lack of opportunity - but also the very difficult issues of maternity and childcare.

[Burwood]

Breadvan72 said:

I am not suggesting that there is discrimination. On the contrary, many elite universities and swanky enterprises are keen to recruit people from diverse backgrounds. The problems are of access to good quality education, funding, and, as you say, confidence and self belief.

I am buying my daughter unfair advantage by paying for her to be the sort of well educated but also poised and confident public school kid that used to make me feel a bit nervy when as a gauche working class* Midlander I was first at university. Heck, 36 years on and I still have Imposter Syndrome, but I deal with it. Quaffing helps, so pass the Malescot St Exupery if you don't mind.



* Strictly speaking, having been born working class, I was probably lower middle class by the time I was 18, as my parents had been doing the social mobility gig, but I still didn't know how to write thank you notes to Dowager Duchesses.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Wednesday 4th October 11:55

A good friend of mine works in the City/senior position. He told me a few years back when interviewing with a major bank. He grew up in Preston and he has a strong accent. Third interview. The rather posh chap asked him 'What did your father do'. He answered the question honestly (working class). That was the end of that prospect. It was crystal clear this person had an issue with Class

[anonymous-user]

I was asked "what do your people do" by the appallingly snobby students' officer at Middle Temple one day circa 1984. I didn't even understand the question.

At at an interview for pupillage at a very grand set of chambers in 1985, I was asked which other chambers I was applying to, and mentioned the one that I eventually ended up in. "Bit Jewish, don't you find?" said one of the impossibly grand and well tailored silks on the panel.

These day my chambers is pretty much number one in the UK (not because I'm there, I hasten to add). That grand set has rather withered.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 4th October 12:56

[anonymous-user]

A very bright female friend from university did her pupillage in a very grand shipping chambers. At the end of the year she was told that she was very good but "we have enough women". She left the Bar.

Things have changed, I am happy to say.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 4th October 17:49