Bombardier - A sign of things to come?
Discussion
REALIST123 said:
Amazing how a trade row between the US and Canada, that happens to have an impact on a British Company, can be used by some to demonstrate the difficulties the UK may face on leaving the EU.
Either stupidity or wilful scaremongering.
and which is occurring while we are still in the EU and so "enjoying" the protections it offers.Either stupidity or wilful scaremongering.
This is all we have had since the referendum, and all we are likely to have from certain quarters until we leave.
The relevance of this story to post brexit trade deals and our leverage is quite obvious.
Mike lays it out quite clearly.
Calling people stupid for being able to see this is hardly a considered view.
New tariffs of 219% putting 1000 jobs at risk with one of our supposed closest new trade partners should be something of a wake up call to the public on what Foxy et al - they need to start realising that they won't come clean with the public on reality and they need to make their own judgement.
Mike lays it out quite clearly.
Calling people stupid for being able to see this is hardly a considered view.
New tariffs of 219% putting 1000 jobs at risk with one of our supposed closest new trade partners should be something of a wake up call to the public on what Foxy et al - they need to start realising that they won't come clean with the public on reality and they need to make their own judgement.
As a staunch remoaner I for one am buoyed by our governments expert handling of this situation. I now have the upmost confidence in their abilities to negotiate trade deals once we leave the EU.
And my passport will also be a different colour.
It's obvious trolling, but I couldn't resist.
And my passport will also be a different colour.
It's obvious trolling, but I couldn't resist.
///ajd said:
The relevance of this story to post brexit trade deals and our leverage is quite obvious.
Mike lays it out quite clearly.
Calling people stupid for being able to see this is hardly a considered view.
New tariffs of 219% putting 1000 jobs at risk with one of our supposed closest new trade partners should be something of a wake up call to the public on what Foxy et al - they need to start realising that they won't come clean with the public on reality and they need to make their own judgement.
Are you agreeing with me? How very dare you! Mike lays it out quite clearly.
Calling people stupid for being able to see this is hardly a considered view.
New tariffs of 219% putting 1000 jobs at risk with one of our supposed closest new trade partners should be something of a wake up call to the public on what Foxy et al - they need to start realising that they won't come clean with the public on reality and they need to make their own judgement.
You remoaners are all daft, soon we’ll be able to double our sugar beet production..
Ukraine better watch out
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264670/top-sug...
Ukraine better watch out
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264670/top-sug...
///ajd said:
The relevance of this story to post brexit trade deals and our leverage is quite obvious.
Mike lays it out quite clearly.
Calling people stupid for being able to see this is hardly a considered view.
New tariffs of 219% putting 1000 jobs at risk with one of our supposed closest new trade partners should be something of a wake up call to the public on what Foxy et al - they need to start realising that they won't come clean with the public on reality and they need to make their own judgement.
what is quite obvious is the attempt by remoaners to try and link this to Brexit, no matter how tenous.Mike lays it out quite clearly.
Calling people stupid for being able to see this is hardly a considered view.
New tariffs of 219% putting 1000 jobs at risk with one of our supposed closest new trade partners should be something of a wake up call to the public on what Foxy et al - they need to start realising that they won't come clean with the public on reality and they need to make their own judgement.
To reiterate this trade dispute is happening whilst we are part of the EU. The only thing that might possible have prevented it is a trade agreement with the US. We don't have a trade agreement with the US as we are part of the EU.
That is it, those are the actual facts rather than laughable spin.
The USA is our second biggest export market after the EU 19% of our exports as opposed to 44% and the fact that we trade with such a crucial market only under WTO rules (after a year of people like you telling us how bad WTO rules are) shows one of the economic costs of being part of the EU.
JagLover said:
///ajd said:
The relevance of this story to post brexit trade deals and our leverage is quite obvious.
Mike lays it out quite clearly.
Calling people stupid for being able to see this is hardly a considered view.
New tariffs of 219% putting 1000 jobs at risk with one of our supposed closest new trade partners should be something of a wake up call to the public on what Foxy et al - they need to start realising that they won't come clean with the public on reality and they need to make their own judgement.
what is quite obvious is the attempt by remoaners to try and link this to Brexit, no matter how tenous.Mike lays it out quite clearly.
Calling people stupid for being able to see this is hardly a considered view.
New tariffs of 219% putting 1000 jobs at risk with one of our supposed closest new trade partners should be something of a wake up call to the public on what Foxy et al - they need to start realising that they won't come clean with the public on reality and they need to make their own judgement.
To reiterate this trade dispute is happening whilst we are part of the EU. The only thing that might possible have prevented it is a trade agreement with the US. We don't have a trade agreement with the US as we are part of the EU.
That is it, those are the actual facts rather than laughable spin.
It's bleedin' obvious to everyone bar remoaner spinners.
JagLover said:
what is quite obvious is the attempt by remoaners to try and link this to Brexit, no matter how tenous.
To reiterate this trade dispute is happening whilst we are part of the EU. The only thing that might possible have prevented it is a trade agreement with the US. We don't have a trade agreement with the US as we are part of the EU.
That is it, those are the actual facts rather than laughable spin.
The USA is our second biggest export market after the EU 19% of our exports as opposed to 44% and the fact that we trade with such a crucial market only under WTO rules (after a year of people like you telling us how bad WTO rules are) shows one of the economic costs of being part of the EU.
That's not 'obvious' at all. It's blinkers that you willingly keep on. It was explained to you few times, the relevance of the story, quite eloquently by mike. To reiterate this trade dispute is happening whilst we are part of the EU. The only thing that might possible have prevented it is a trade agreement with the US. We don't have a trade agreement with the US as we are part of the EU.
That is it, those are the actual facts rather than laughable spin.
The USA is our second biggest export market after the EU 19% of our exports as opposed to 44% and the fact that we trade with such a crucial market only under WTO rules (after a year of people like you telling us how bad WTO rules are) shows one of the economic costs of being part of the EU.
Then again, you are someone who can't figure out who sets interest rates. If you are actually an accountant, and if you were doing my YE returns I'd be s
tting myself. mike9009 said:
I don't think anyone has intimated this would affect difficulties in the UK leaving the EU. (Apologies if someone had and I missed it.....)
I 'think' the Brexit bandwagon presented that once outside of the EU, other trading nations would want free trade agreements with the UK. The EU were portrayed as a protectionist organisation hindering the UK from free trade agreements globally, hence one proposed reason for the UK leaving the EU.
I 'think' what the events show between US and Canada (specifically Bombardier) is that free trade is not necessarily a global desire between developed countries. (The fact that a Bombardier facility is based in the UK is irrelevant to the discussion)
So extrapolating somewhat, it might be difficult for a smaller economy to negotiate effectively with larger trading economies, as demonstrated by the extreme proposed tariffs imposed by the US on a singular particularly threatening Canadian company. However, a larger body of economies may provide bigger clout than a smaller economy, perhaps?? Canada ($2Bn sales) threatening consequential trade tariffs on Boeing would not be nearly as effective as the EU ($14Bn sales) threatening the same tariffs. <cannot find Boeings UK revenue in 2016!)
I also do not think this is as a result of Trump - it is active lobbying by the government sponsored Boeing. The whole premise of the pot calling the kettle black.
Not sure if I am stupid or scare-mongering. Or perhaps the US are scare-mongering (or are they stupid?)?
Mike
I see the points you are making and I think they are well articulated. That being said, I think it would be wrong to draw any broader conclusions from what , in this particular case, is a very weird set of circumstances. I 'think' the Brexit bandwagon presented that once outside of the EU, other trading nations would want free trade agreements with the UK. The EU were portrayed as a protectionist organisation hindering the UK from free trade agreements globally, hence one proposed reason for the UK leaving the EU.
I 'think' what the events show between US and Canada (specifically Bombardier) is that free trade is not necessarily a global desire between developed countries. (The fact that a Bombardier facility is based in the UK is irrelevant to the discussion)
So extrapolating somewhat, it might be difficult for a smaller economy to negotiate effectively with larger trading economies, as demonstrated by the extreme proposed tariffs imposed by the US on a singular particularly threatening Canadian company. However, a larger body of economies may provide bigger clout than a smaller economy, perhaps?? Canada ($2Bn sales) threatening consequential trade tariffs on Boeing would not be nearly as effective as the EU ($14Bn sales) threatening the same tariffs. <cannot find Boeings UK revenue in 2016!)
I also do not think this is as a result of Trump - it is active lobbying by the government sponsored Boeing. The whole premise of the pot calling the kettle black.
Not sure if I am stupid or scare-mongering. Or perhaps the US are scare-mongering (or are they stupid?)?
Mike
Boeing is being super protectionist aggressive, and as a result has won the first round, (aided in part by Bombardier Canada refusal to cooperate with the proceedings at this time)
One might hope that in the subsequent rounds of this battle, the Canadians will engage with the process and a more sensible solution will emerge. Barriers to trade work both ways and the US knows that Boeing has to sell world wide if it is to survive.
JagLover said:
///ajd said:
The relevance of this story to post brexit trade deals and our leverage is quite obvious.
Mike lays it out quite clearly.
Calling people stupid for being able to see this is hardly a considered view.
New tariffs of 219% putting 1000 jobs at risk with one of our supposed closest new trade partners should be something of a wake up call to the public on what Foxy et al - they need to start realising that they won't come clean with the public on reality and they need to make their own judgement.
what is quite obvious is the attempt by remoaners to try and link this to Brexit, no matter how tenous.Mike lays it out quite clearly.
Calling people stupid for being able to see this is hardly a considered view.
New tariffs of 219% putting 1000 jobs at risk with one of our supposed closest new trade partners should be something of a wake up call to the public on what Foxy et al - they need to start realising that they won't come clean with the public on reality and they need to make their own judgement.
To reiterate this trade dispute is happening whilst we are part of the EU. The only thing that might possible have prevented it is a trade agreement with the US. We don't have a trade agreement with the US as we are part of the EU.
That is it, those are the actual facts rather than laughable spin.
The USA is our second biggest export market after the EU 19% of our exports as opposed to 44% and the fact that we trade with such a crucial market only under WTO rules (after a year of people like you telling us how bad WTO rules are) shows one of the economic costs of being part of the EU.
I wonder how many more Bombardiers await us.
jjlynn27 said:
turbobloke said:
yes:
It's bleedin' obvious to everyone bar remoaner spinners.
It's bleedin' obvious to everyone bar remoaner spinners.
turbobloke said:
...
As for the name-calling, it's unoriginal and the obvious sign of an argument loser. More of the same will cement your loser status at your own hand/keyboard.
As for the name-calling, it's unoriginal and the obvious sign of an argument loser. More of the same will cement your loser status at your own hand/keyboard.
I would not call you or anyone a d
head or similar for holding a different view as it would be non-evidence-based and purely insulting.If remainers moan then remoaners is an accurate description formed by combining the terms. Did you really not see how it arose?
All bleedin' obvious. If you remain
touchy, Eddie S will be on your case. You could always moan about being called touchy.turbobloke said:
Accuracy is a valid defence when facing spurious complaints for using non-abusive descriptions that are evidence-based.
I would not call you or anyone a dhead or similar for holding a different view as it would be non-evidence-based and purely insulting.
If remainers moan then remoaners is an accurate description formed by combining the terms. Did you really not see how it arose?
All bleedin' obvious. If you remain touchy, Eddie S will be on your case. You could always moan about being called touchy.
So desperate to find mo, where your own words don't make you a loser. It's funny. I would not call you or anyone a d
head or similar for holding a different view as it would be non-evidence-based and purely insulting.If remainers moan then remoaners is an accurate description formed by combining the terms. Did you really not see how it arose?
All bleedin' obvious. If you remain
touchy, Eddie S will be on your case. You could always moan about being called touchy.Almost as funny as you lying on a car forum.
Fascinating. Back on-topic:
Delta's CEO calls U.S. tariff ruling on Bombardier jets 'absurd'.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/27/deltas-ceo-calls-u...
Delta's CEO calls U.S. tariff ruling on Bombardier jets 'absurd'.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/27/deltas-ceo-calls-u...
REALIST123 said:
Amazing how a trade row between the US and Canada, that happens to have an impact on a British Company, can be used by some to demonstrate the difficulties the UK may face on leaving the EU.
Either stupidity or wilful scaremongering.
Little news about the imminent end of the EU Sugar Beet quotas that could lead to 50% increases in UK production. Perhaps because it's good news?
You'll need the extra sugar for all those cakes you'll have and be eating!!! Hold on, Mr Tusk gave Boris a targeted slap about that last week.Either stupidity or wilful scaremongering.
Little news about the imminent end of the EU Sugar Beet quotas that could lead to 50% increases in UK production. Perhaps because it's good news?
Must get more excited about sugar beet quotas and forget that we are walking into an abusive future with little stock of Vaseline.
JagLover said:
what is quite obvious is the attempt by remoaners to try and link this to Brexit, no matter how tenous.
To reiterate this trade dispute is happening whilst we are part of the EU. The only thing that might possible have prevented it is a trade agreement with the US. We don't have a trade agreement with the US as we are part of the EU.
That is it, those are the actual facts rather than laughable spin.
The USA is our second biggest export market after the EU 19% of our exports as opposed to 44% and the fact that we trade with such a crucial market only under WTO rules (after a year of people like you telling us how bad WTO rules are) shows one of the economic costs of being part of the EU.
To reiterate this trade dispute is happening whilst we are part of the EU. The only thing that might possible have prevented it is a trade agreement with the US. We don't have a trade agreement with the US as we are part of the EU.
That is it, those are the actual facts rather than laughable spin.
The USA is our second biggest export market after the EU 19% of our exports as opposed to 44% and the fact that we trade with such a crucial market only under WTO rules (after a year of people like you telling us how bad WTO rules are) shows one of the economic costs of being part of the EU.
Are you sure about that ?
Why would the EU even try and help us now when we have been proper arse.... Fox and Bojo will fix it dont despair
I would appreciate if ///ajd would explain to me how our membership of the EU helps the Bombardier workers in this particular case.
Could it not be argued that Bombardier is a good example of how high tech industry partnerships work well without the requirement of joint membership of a large block such as the EU, as the Northern Ireland and Canadian plants working together is technologically and commercially successful.
Could it not be argued that Bombardier is a good example of how high tech industry partnerships work well without the requirement of joint membership of a large block such as the EU, as the Northern Ireland and Canadian plants working together is technologically and commercially successful.
jsf said:
I would appreciate if ///ajd would explain to me how our membership of the EU helps the Bombardier workers in this particular case.
Could it not be argued that Bombardier is a good example of how high tech industry partnerships work well without the requirement of joint membership of a large block such as the EU, as the Northern Ireland and Canadian plants working together is technologically and commercially successful.
I see my name has cropped up here Could it not be argued that Bombardier is a good example of how high tech industry partnerships work well without the requirement of joint membership of a large block such as the EU, as the Northern Ireland and Canadian plants working together is technologically and commercially successful.
Selling Airliners is not like selling cardboard boxes (unsurprisingly) the timelines are in decades & the sums huge. No banks will invest on that basis, so if you want an airspace industry, you have to have Government investment, it's the only realistic way & all airliner manufacturers exist on state subsidies, including Boeing, although as I'm sure you all know, that's often dressed up in padded contracts from the military & so on, I believe the 747 was partly developed this way, cross subsidising military tech with civil projects, although I obvs defer to the many aviation experts here.
It's only really large economies that can have aerospace industries eg USA, Russia etc. but smaller countries can compete but only on a level playing field, which is why, given the sums & time involved, countries like the USA via Boeing cheerfully try to strangle companies like Bombardier at birth.
Although this is a US/Canada & Brazil thing, it's indicative of the travails a smaller economy faces against a much larger one. Being in the EU is heft, it can retaliate purely by dint of it's size. If a similar thing were to happen here, post Brexit, it would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight. That is literally the risk involved in Extreme Brexiteers advocating highly liberal free trade. International trade is a dirty business, which is why it needs rules to keep industries from being marmalised by the big boys & a lot can happen in the typical decade long trade negotiations - hey it's just a bit of pain, we knew it would happen etc. etc.
Being in a union of 500 million people allows you to act collectively defending your turf, leveraging the expertise, but hey, we've got Boris, Liam & Theresa, we'll be fine.
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