More money to find missing girl

[Mothersruin]

AJL308 said:

So British dogs picked up this scent in an entirely foreign environment, yet dogs native to the surroundings didn't. This, don't forget, is a very hot country. Did they do a control search of other cars? Perhaps the boots of most Portuguese cars smell of death to a British police dog?

!?

[CzechItOut]

AJL308 said:

So British dogs picked up this scent in an entirely foreign environment, yet dogs native to the surroundings didn't. This, don't forget, is a very hot country. Did they do a control search of other cars? Perhaps the boots of most Portuguese cars smell of death to a British police dog?

Yes.

The police removed the silver Renault Scenic the McCanns had hired three weeks after the disappearance,[152] and on 6 August Keela and Eddie were taken to an underground car park opposite the Polícia Judiciária headquarters in Portimão, where 10 cars were parked, 20–30 feet apart, including the McCanns' and Robert Murat's.[153] Eddie, the cadaver dog, gave an alert outside the McCanns' car by the driver's door.[154][146] The next morning Keela alerted to the rear driver's side inside the boot (trunk) and the map compartment in the driver's door, which contained the ignition key and key ring. When the key ring was hidden underneath sand in a fire bucket, she alerted again, as she did when the bucket was moved to a different floor of the car park.

[Downward]

AJL308 said:

CzechItOut said:

AJL308 said:

Like you say, more than three weeks after the events in question. How on earth can that be considered to be 'evidence' if they didn't even have the car at the time she disappeared? Is it seriously the suggestion that they moved her body in the hire car three weeks after she died (after hiding it during that time) and managed to get away with it under one of the heaviest levels of press and police scrutiny this century up to that point? Utter fantasy. Sorry but it just is.

DNA evidence inside the car??? DNA evidence of what, precisely, their daughter? Hardly surprising.

None of what you have said is 'evidence' of anything because it doesn't draw you to the conclusion that the parents had anything to do with her disappearance. Not even remotely.

How are traces of Maddie in a car they hired 24 days AFTER her disappearance not evidence? The dogs and DNA at least creates suspicion. You'd think the McCanns would then co-operate with the police, but in fact refused to answer questions.

Now, if you wanted the police to stop wasting their time harassing you and get on with finding the real perpetrator, would you answer their questions or respond with a wall of silence. Which approach is more likely to arise suspicion and harden the police's opinion that they are on the right tracks?

I hired a car a few months back when someone kindly wrote mine off for me. Had it a couple of weeks. When I was cleaning it the load area had hairs from my dog on it. The dog had never been in the car. His hair was obviously left there when I'd been loading stuff in and out of it.

I'll ask how can the DNA in the car possibly be evidence??? She disappeared more than three weeks before they even laid eyes on the car FFS! Unless, of course, there is the suggestion that she, or her body, was in it 24 or more days after she disappeared which is an absolutely bat-st crazy assertion. It's total and utter tin-foil hattery.

As to the second part - if you thought you were being fitted-up by a correct or incompetent police force then why would you answer anything? Surely the faster they leave you alone the faster they might find who took your kid, if anyone.

Edited by AJL308 on Thursday 29th March 18:27

Almost as crazy as someone getting through a window unable to be opened from the outside and randomly carrying out a 3 year old who as parents know a 3 year old is pretty heavy especially when asleep yet said person managed to walk down the street with no trouble at all.

[Mothersruin]

AJL, have your two kids, the twins, got permanently fuzzed out faces when you take a photo now?

[TheSnitch]

AJL308 said:

So British dogs picked up this scent in an entirely foreign environment, yet dogs native to the surroundings didn't. This, don't forget, is a very hot country. Did they do a control search of other cars? Perhaps the boots of most Portuguese cars smell of death to a British police dog?

The whole theory suggests that they killed her, or knew she was dead, and concealed the body. I'm sorry but I just do not believe that for one second. Who has the time and composure to hide their kid's body under those circumstances (the space of a few hours) and continue with a meal with friends without raising any suspicion? The whole suggestion is utterly fantastical, it really is.

The dogs in question are specially trained to locate human remains; Portugal had no such dogs. The location is immaterial - a body smells the same regardless of the country.

Yes, they did a control search of other cars. The dog only got a hit on that one.

I respect your opinion, but I don't regard it as fantastical - people do strange things when self-preservation kicks in.
I find the idea of a complete stranger wandering into an unlocked apartment and making off with a child, never to be seen again, more fantastical tbh. How would a stranger know there were unattended children there?

The bit I am most disturbed by is the fact that according to the mother she believed the other children had been drugged - she was observed repeatedly checking their breathing - yet she did not alert the police or get them to a hospital. This has been dismissed as her knowing they were not in danger as she was a doctor - that's absolute bks, unless her particular medical training included the ability to conduct toxicology tests by merely looking at a kid

[Pacman1978]

Have the breeders of MM been considered as possible suspects by UK police or CPS?

Would extraterritorial jurisdiction be applicable?

The pair of them disgust me, as a parent I can not get my head around how they practically abandoned 3 vulnerable children. IF I did leave my children alone for an extended period of time for the same reason they had, I don't think I'd be able to do anything except worrying about their safety.

Their actions and the way they behaved themselves immediately after the so called abduction is dodgy as fk.. I hope they carry on as they have been for many years to come.. The karmic payback will have just that little bit longer to even out here scales.

[ThunderSpook]

Downward said:

Almost as crazy as someone getting through a window unable to be opened from the outside and randomly carrying out a 3 year old who as parents know a 3 year old is pretty heavy especially when asleep yet said person managed to walk down the street with no trouble at all.

Also have you seen how high the window is?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/R.+Dr.+Francisco...

Very weird feel around there. Drove past it a few times and it all feels very uncomfortable.

[Woody John]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F1RLNQ4-kI&t=...

[AJL308]

Downward said:

AJL308 said:

CzechItOut said:

AJL308 said:

Like you say, more than three weeks after the events in question. How on earth can that be considered to be 'evidence' if they didn't even have the car at the time she disappeared? Is it seriously the suggestion that they moved her body in the hire car three weeks after she died (after hiding it during that time) and managed to get away with it under one of the heaviest levels of press and police scrutiny this century up to that point? Utter fantasy. Sorry but it just is.

DNA evidence inside the car??? DNA evidence of what, precisely, their daughter? Hardly surprising.

None of what you have said is 'evidence' of anything because it doesn't draw you to the conclusion that the parents had anything to do with her disappearance. Not even remotely.

How are traces of Maddie in a car they hired 24 days AFTER her disappearance not evidence? The dogs and DNA at least creates suspicion. You'd think the McCanns would then co-operate with the police, but in fact refused to answer questions.

Now, if you wanted the police to stop wasting their time harassing you and get on with finding the real perpetrator, would you answer their questions or respond with a wall of silence. Which approach is more likely to arise suspicion and harden the police's opinion that they are on the right tracks?

I hired a car a few months back when someone kindly wrote mine off for me. Had it a couple of weeks. When I was cleaning it the load area had hairs from my dog on it. The dog had never been in the car. His hair was obviously left there when I'd been loading stuff in and out of it.

I'll ask how can the DNA in the car possibly be evidence??? She disappeared more than three weeks before they even laid eyes on the car FFS! Unless, of course, there is the suggestion that she, or her body, was in it 24 or more days after she disappeared which is an absolutely bat-st crazy assertion. It's total and utter tin-foil hattery.

As to the second part - if you thought you were being fitted-up by a correct or incompetent police force then why would you answer anything? Surely the faster they leave you alone the faster they might find who took your kid, if anyone.

Edited by AJL308 on Thursday 29th March 18:27

Almost as crazy as someone getting through a window unable to be opened from the outside and randomly carrying out a 3 year old who as parents know a 3 year old is pretty heavy especially when asleep yet said person managed to walk down the street with no trouble at all.

But the rational and most likely explanation is that she simply wandered off looking for her parents.

[TheSnitch]

Pacman1978 said:

Have the breeders of MM been considered as possible suspects by UK police or CPS?

Would extraterritorial jurisdiction be applicable?

The pair of them disgust me, as a parent I can not get my head around how they practically abandoned 3 vulnerable children. IF I did leave my children alone for an extended period of time for the same reason they had, I don't think I'd be able to do anything except worrying about their safety.

Their actions and the way they behaved themselves immediately after the so called abduction is dodgy as fk.. I hope they carry on as they have been for many years to come.. The karmic payback will have just that little bit longer to even out here scales.

Some of the language used in their statements and those given by their friends is disturbing, frankly. One of the other mothers describes checking on her daughter, who was even younger than Madeleine, and talks about the child being unwell

"'Erm well we'd go into the room, which ordinarily we wouldn't do to be honest, erm but she seemed to have diarrhoea and kind of, I mean she'd settled quite well actually cos she'd been tired every evening, erm but every morning when she woke up, she had diarrhoea and it had gone right through her grow bag and so there's all of this sort of horrendous smell, so in the evenings when we were checking, we'd go into the room just to see if you know, there was any sort of smell yet, erm and just to make sure she was alright, to make sure she hadn't been sick''

I honestly defy anyone to sit in a restaurant sampling the tapas and the cheeky house red, while 100 yards away your baby daughter is poorly with D&V. And they only popped in on her to see if she had crapped, as normally they wouldn't bother.

If I did something like that my mother would rise from her grave and beat me senseless with a skillet. For my own good.

[wc98]

AJL308 said:

But the rational and most likely explanation is that she simply wandered off looking for her parents.

and was then abducted by aliens ?

[AJL308]

TheSnitch said:

AJL308 said:

So British dogs picked up this scent in an entirely foreign environment, yet dogs native to the surroundings didn't. This, don't forget, is a very hot country. Did they do a control search of other cars? Perhaps the boots of most Portuguese cars smell of death to a British police dog?

The whole theory suggests that they killed her, or knew she was dead, and concealed the body. I'm sorry but I just do not believe that for one second. Who has the time and composure to hide their kid's body under those circumstances (the space of a few hours) and continue with a meal with friends without raising any suspicion? The whole suggestion is utterly fantastical, it really is.

The dogs in question are specially trained to locate human remains; Portugal had no such dogs. The location is immaterial - a body smells the same regardless of the country.

Yes, they did a control search of other cars. The dog only got a hit on that one.

I respect your opinion, but I don't regard it as fantastical - people do strange things when self-preservation kicks in.
I find the idea of a complete stranger wandering into an unlocked apartment and making off with a child, never to be seen again, more fantastical tbh. How would a stranger know there were unattended children there?

The bit I am most disturbed by is the fact that according to the mother she believed the other children had been drugged - she was observed repeatedly checking their breathing - yet she did not alert the police or get them to a hospital. This has been dismissed as her knowing they were not in danger as she was a doctor - that's absolute bks, unless her particular medical training included the ability to conduct toxicology tests by merely looking at a kid

And this is pretty much the whole issue here. I find it quite the stretch to believe that multiple people can perpetuate a lie - a lie of such massively epic proportions about such a significant event - for more than a decade. I can just about accept that one person could be able to do it but, two? Not only two people but the missing child's parents for god's sake! We are asked to believe that they not only lied to the police, prosecutors and media after the fact but also to the friends they were holidaying with (and presumably hotel/restaurant staff too) before the disappearance was noticed and were able to behave perfectly normally to all these people.

How TF do you do that for so long? It stretches credibility to breaking point, quite honestly. Especially so if the death was accidental because the guilt must be absolutely crippling,

I'm sorry but I just don't buy it.

[AJL308]

wc98 said:

AJL308 said:

But the rational and most likely explanation is that she simply wandered off looking for her parents.

and was then abducted by aliens ?

She was three - pretty much anything could have happened. Barring your theory, obviously.

[wc98]

AJL308 said:

She was three - pretty much anything could have happened. Barring your theory, obviously.

3 year old's wander off all the time ,they usually end up being found by someone and being returned to their parents. disappearing into thin air is a very, very rare occurrence.

[TheSnitch]

AJL308 said:

And this is pretty much the whole issue here. I find it quite the stretch to believe that multiple people can perpetuate a lie - a lie of such massively epic proportions about such a significant event - for more than a decade. I can just about accept that one person could be able to do it but, two? Not only two people but the missing child's parents for god's sake! We are asked to believe that they not only lied to the police, prosecutors and media after the fact but also to the friends they were holidaying with (and presumably hotel/restaurant staff too) before the disappearance was noticed and were able to behave perfectly normally to all these people.

How TF do you do that for so long? It stretches credibility to breaking point, quite honestly. Especially so if the death was accidental because the guilt must be absolutely crippling,

I'm sorry but I just don't buy it.

I don't have any difficulty believing that scenario at all and I would imagine it is far more common than we imagine. Plenty of deathbed confessions would suggest so, in any case.

[AJL308]

wc98 said:

AJL308 said:

She was three - pretty much anything could have happened. Barring your theory, obviously.

3 year old's wander off all the time ,they usually end up being found by someone and being returned to their parents. disappearing into thin air is a very, very rare occurrence.

But probably more likely than either being taken out the window (or otherwise removed by someone) or killed, accidentally or otherwise, and having her body hidden by her parent(s).

[TheSnitch]

AJL308 said:

wc98 said:

AJL308 said:

She was three - pretty much anything could have happened. Barring your theory, obviously.

3 year old's wander off all the time ,they usually end up being found by someone and being returned to their parents. disappearing into thin air is a very, very rare occurrence.

But probably more likely than either being taken out the window (or otherwise removed by someone) or killed, accidentally or otherwise, and having her body hidden by her parent(s).

How many cases can you think of where a child was killed, accidentally or otherwise, by parents who then tried to cover up?

And how many can you think of where a child was proven to have wandered off and managed in the process to hide themselves so well that they were never found?

The vast majority of child killings are by a family member or close associate.

[AJL308]

TheSnitch said:

AJL308 said:

And this is pretty much the whole issue here. I find it quite the stretch to believe that multiple people can perpetuate a lie - a lie of such massively epic proportions about such a significant event - for more than a decade. I can just about accept that one person could be able to do it but, two? Not only two people but the missing child's parents for god's sake! We are asked to believe that they not only lied to the police, prosecutors and media after the fact but also to the friends they were holidaying with (and presumably hotel/restaurant staff too) before the disappearance was noticed and were able to behave perfectly normally to all these people.

How TF do you do that for so long? It stretches credibility to breaking point, quite honestly. Especially so if the death was accidental because the guilt must be absolutely crippling,

I'm sorry but I just don't buy it.

I don't have any difficulty believing that scenario at all and I would imagine it is far more common than we imagine. Plenty of deathbed confessions would suggest so, in any case.

Really, which ones, specifically? I mean ones which have actually been proved to be true based on the 'death bed' confession.

And, sorry, but the whole notion that they did that is frankly so unlikely as to be essentially impossible. How many couples have you ever heard of who managed to keep a lie of such massive proportions going for so long both before and after the discovery of the event?

[Downward]

Surely its the mystery of the century so far.
Like the MH371 plane dissaperance. But we are certain it crashed someowhere.

[AJL308]

TheSnitch said:

AJL308 said:

wc98 said:

AJL308 said:

She was three - pretty much anything could have happened. Barring your theory, obviously.

3 year old's wander off all the time ,they usually end up being found by someone and being returned to their parents. disappearing into thin air is a very, very rare occurrence.

But probably more likely than either being taken out the window (or otherwise removed by someone) or killed, accidentally or otherwise, and having her body hidden by her parent(s).

How many cases can you think of where a child was killed, accidentally or otherwise, by parents who then tried to cover up?

And how many can you think of where a child was proven to have wandered off and managed in the process to hide themselves so well that they were never found?

The vast majority of child killings are by a family member or close associate.

Yeah, 'tried' being the operative here. How many missing kids are there whose parents 'tried' to cover up and got caught? How many do you honestly believe are 'unsolved' but the parents certainly did it? Very few if any, lets face it. I still don't think that the evidence here leads its self remotely in the direction that the parents did anything other than making a bad decision to leave their kids unattended for a few hours.

Who said anything about her 'hiding' her self? Anything could have happened from her falling into a ditch to being abducted by a random passing paedophile. It's far more likely than some convoluted story about someone breaking in through a difficult to access window or an even more convoluted one about her parents successfully pulling off one of the greatest crimes of the 21st Century so far despite seemingly there being no element of pre-planning - assuming they killed her accidentally.

Edited by AJL308 on Thursday 29th March 23:06