Sally Jones (white widow) killed by drone,
Discussion
Biker 1 said:
I don't see any difference between a remote controlled drone or a fighter jet being controlled by its pilot, apart from the obvious in that the risk of losing the pilot is nullified.
The kid & any others flambed or vaporised in the immediate vicinity of the strike are 'collateral damage' - I'm guessing the powers that be think that this is a price worth paying. Is it legal? Is it moral? I'm not sure. Should 'we' be involved in the first place? Probably not.
I completely agree. The kid & any others flambed or vaporised in the immediate vicinity of the strike are 'collateral damage' - I'm guessing the powers that be think that this is a price worth paying. Is it legal? Is it moral? I'm not sure. Should 'we' be involved in the first place? Probably not.
It was an interview with some of our and the american armed forces that changed my mind.
Some of the people operating them have never been in a war in person. They have never seen close combat. Those that have were saying some of the drone operators see it no different to a simulator or a video game.
Whilst this is not the same for all drone operators it is happening and it is this that sways my opinion.
DaveH23 said:
I completely agree.
It was an interview with some of our and the american armed forces that changed my mind.
Some of the people operating them have never been in a war in person. They have never seen close combat. Those that have were saying some of the drone operators see it no different to a simulator or a video game.
Whilst this is not the same for all drone operators it is happening and it is this that sways my opinion.
And a screen in an Aircraft at X-ft above is different how ?It was an interview with some of our and the american armed forces that changed my mind.
Some of the people operating them have never been in a war in person. They have never seen close combat. Those that have were saying some of the drone operators see it no different to a simulator or a video game.
Whilst this is not the same for all drone operators it is happening and it is this that sways my opinion.
And an image in a snipers gun sight at x-yards
and a screen on a GPS targeting system for artillery
Stickyfinger said:
And a screen in an Aircraft at X-ft above is different how ?
And an image in a snipers gun sight at x-yards
and a screen on a GPS targeting system for artillery
I suppose it’s that the shooter is also in the war zone or in some danger also. These drone operators are killing jihadists and then leaving the porocabin and driving home. It’s a very odd remote warfare. And an image in a snipers gun sight at x-yards
and a screen on a GPS targeting system for artillery
The psychological effects of this kind of warfare must be quite significant for both sides.
The targets and surrounding civilians are in permanent fear of bombs and missiles from an unseen enemy circling overhead.
The drone operator isn’t in a war zone with others having a shared experience. They dip in and out of the war zone remotely and then are suddenly in peacetime when they leave the building in Vegas or wherever it is.
You presumably could be at home having dinner with your family minutes after dropping bombs on a wedding in Afghanistan.
The drone is effective at killing people with minimal risk to the operator but I’m not sure it’s winning hearts and minds, if that’s the aim.
El stovey said:
I suppose it’s that the shooter is also in the war zone or in some danger also. These drone operators are killing jihadists and then leaving the porocabin and driving home. It’s a very odd remote warfare.
The psychological effects of this kind of warfare must be quite significant for both sides.
The targets and surrounding civilians are in permanent fear of bombs and missiles from an unseen enemy circling overhead.
The drone operator isn’t in a war zone with others having a shared experience. They dip in and out of the war zone remotely and then are suddenly in peacetime when they leave the building in Vegas or wherever it is.
You presumably could be at home having dinner with your family minutes after dropping bombs on a wedding in Afghanistan.
The drone is effective at killing people with minimal risk to the operator but I’m not sure it’s winning hearts and minds, if that’s the aim.
And a pilot is "home" in a couple of hoursThe psychological effects of this kind of warfare must be quite significant for both sides.
The targets and surrounding civilians are in permanent fear of bombs and missiles from an unseen enemy circling overhead.
The drone operator isn’t in a war zone with others having a shared experience. They dip in and out of the war zone remotely and then are suddenly in peacetime when they leave the building in Vegas or wherever it is.
You presumably could be at home having dinner with your family minutes after dropping bombs on a wedding in Afghanistan.
The drone is effective at killing people with minimal risk to the operator but I’m not sure it’s winning hearts and minds, if that’s the aim.
Artillery guy is in the canteen
etc etc.....
Guided, 'intelligent' missiles from either helicopters or fighter jets have been capable of putting the aircrew at relatively safe distances from their targets for some time. Clearly these systems were preferable and created less collateral damage than the old B52 carpet bombing.
My own take is that, setting aside the morality and validity of 'our' involvement, and also the pyschological effects on drone operators (yet to be clear) smaller drones with more precisely-targeted ordnance must surely be a positive development. Not only can drones use smaller armaments, but they can theoretically do so more accurately, thereby improving both effectiveness and reducing collateral damage.
My own take is that, setting aside the morality and validity of 'our' involvement, and also the pyschological effects on drone operators (yet to be clear) smaller drones with more precisely-targeted ordnance must surely be a positive development. Not only can drones use smaller armaments, but they can theoretically do so more accurately, thereby improving both effectiveness and reducing collateral damage.
Breadvan72 said:
This film "Eye in the Sky" did not get the recognition that it deserved - a tense examination of the ethics of drone warfare. Intelligent script, strong cast, well made, and well worth a watch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_in_the_Sky_(2015...
Anyone seen ‘National bird’ on Netflix? Aparently it’s another good drone documentary/movie.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_in_the_Sky_(2015...
Edited by Breadvan72 on Saturday 14th October 09:06
DaveH23 said:
Biker 1 said:
I don't see any difference between a remote controlled drone or a fighter jet being controlled by its pilot, apart from the obvious in that the risk of losing the pilot is nullified.
The kid & any others flambed or vaporised in the immediate vicinity of the strike are 'collateral damage' - I'm guessing the powers that be think that this is a price worth paying. Is it legal? Is it moral? I'm not sure. Should 'we' be involved in the first place? Probably not.
I completely agree. The kid & any others flambed or vaporised in the immediate vicinity of the strike are 'collateral damage' - I'm guessing the powers that be think that this is a price worth paying. Is it legal? Is it moral? I'm not sure. Should 'we' be involved in the first place? Probably not.
It was an interview with some of our and the american armed forces that changed my mind.
Some of the people operating them have never been in a war in person. They have never seen close combat. Those that have were saying some of the drone operators see it no different to a simulator or a video game.
Whilst this is not the same for all drone operators it is happening and it is this that sways my opinion.
Some drone gamer in a bunker somewhere is probably unaware of the reality of it and have probably been chosen for their lack of empathy and humanity.
Glad she's been wiped out. It's a shame about the boy but it seems unlikely he could have ever returned to a 'normal' life, even if he hadn't killed. As it was, he lived and died by the sword so to speak.
In an ideal world, it might have been nice for her to go on trial so the world could have seen her for what she really was. A deluded middle aged woman from an estate in Kent, who carried out despicable acts, brainwashed her own child (whilst also using him as a human shield) who manipulated and groomed young women into sympathising with a terrorist organisation. I'd like to have seen her rot in a UK prison rather than risk her becoming some sort of martyr in death.
In an ideal world, it might have been nice for her to go on trial so the world could have seen her for what she really was. A deluded middle aged woman from an estate in Kent, who carried out despicable acts, brainwashed her own child (whilst also using him as a human shield) who manipulated and groomed young women into sympathising with a terrorist organisation. I'd like to have seen her rot in a UK prison rather than risk her becoming some sort of martyr in death.
e30m3Mark said:
Glad she's been wiped out. It's a shame about the boy but it seems unlikely he could have ever returned to a 'normal' life, even if he hadn't killed. As it was, he lived and died by the sword so to speak.
...
As pointed out above de-radicalisation programs do have some success. Brainwashed people can be reverse brainwashed. The boy did not live by the sword - he was abused by adults and made into a weapon for their ideology. ...
Breadvan72 said:
As pointed out above de-radicalisation programs do have some success.
Historically speaking I'd say radicalisation programs still have the edge. Breadvan72 said:
Brainwashed people can be reverse brainwashed.
Again, the evidence isn't exactly in your favour but lets accept it can happen in certain circumstances. Breadvan72 said:
The boy did not live by the sword - he was abused by adults and made into a weapon for their ideology.
All ideology is abuse by adults, children don't pick up the lunacy of religion by playing with teddy bears.The death of any child who has yet to fully experience the wonders a well lived life can offer is a tragedy, in this case it's hard to see how he would have connected with any normality going forward.
I don't celebrate this outcome but there are millions more deserving of sympathy.
Edited by br d on Saturday 21st October 16:58
Breadvan72 said:
As pointed out above de-radicalisation programs do have some success. Brainwashed people can be reverse brainwashed. The boy did not live by the sword - he was abused by adults and made into a weapon for their ideology.
Maybe you could have taken him in, I'm sure it would be delightful to return home from work one day to find him holding your grandchild's head aloft and your pet rabbit on his cock.mickmcpaddy said:
Breadvan72 said:
As pointed out above de-radicalisation programs do have some success. Brainwashed people can be reverse brainwashed. The boy did not live by the sword - he was abused by adults and made into a weapon for their ideology.
Maybe you could have taken him in, I'm sure it would be delightful to return home from work one day to find him holding your grandchild's head aloft and your pet rabbit on his cock.B'stard Child said:
mickmcpaddy said:
Breadvan72 said:
As pointed out above de-radicalisation programs do have some success. Brainwashed people can be reverse brainwashed. The boy did not live by the sword - he was abused by adults and made into a weapon for their ideology.
Maybe you could have taken him in, I'm sure it would be delightful to return home from work one day to find him holding your grandchild's head aloft and your pet rabbit on his cock.mickmcpaddy said:
Breadvan72 said:
As pointed out above de-radicalisation programs do have some success. Brainwashed people can be reverse brainwashed. The boy did not live by the sword - he was abused by adults and made into a weapon for their ideology.
Maybe you could have taken him in, I'm sure it would be delightful to return home from work one day to find him holding your grandchild's head aloft and your pet rabbit on his cock.
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