Harvey Weinstein
Discussion
RedWhiteMonkey said:
desolate said:
funkyrobot said:
Interesting one this. I was told the other day at work that when you get to know some of the female customers, they have a habit of pinching your bum. I was told this as if I need to expect this to happen, and put up with it. 
'#metoo'
Imagine the horror if I was a woman and the male customers were expected to do this.
In what environment do you work?'#metoo'
Imagine the horror if I was a woman and the male customers were expected to do this.
JagLover said:
Life often isn't black and white it is shades of grey.
Leaving aside women who make completely fabricated claims, often we are talking about trying to avoid misunderstanding and conversations and actions that could be misconstrued.
To take some examples of shades of grey. A number of young women can be very flirty in how they talk with you and not because they have a desperate desire for some loving from overweight middle aged men, it is just how they talk. If you jokingly respond in kind is this harassment?.
Have a few drinks after work with some colleagues and the jokes become a bit more risqué. Is this harassment if some of those colleagues are women?.
Hence why the risk averse avoid such situations. They remove the possibility for misunderstandings by avoiding the contact in the first place. They are not stopping themselves "harassing" their female colleagues as they were not doing so before.
Imo men have a serious problem if they stay indoors for risk of not being risqué with female colleagues.Leaving aside women who make completely fabricated claims, often we are talking about trying to avoid misunderstanding and conversations and actions that could be misconstrued.
To take some examples of shades of grey. A number of young women can be very flirty in how they talk with you and not because they have a desperate desire for some loving from overweight middle aged men, it is just how they talk. If you jokingly respond in kind is this harassment?.
Have a few drinks after work with some colleagues and the jokes become a bit more risqué. Is this harassment if some of those colleagues are women?.
Hence why the risk averse avoid such situations. They remove the possibility for misunderstandings by avoiding the contact in the first place. They are not stopping themselves "harassing" their female colleagues as they were not doing so before.
I would question why there seems to be a need to be risqué in the first place. I'm no killjoy but it's perfectly possible to have good female working relationships without our inner Sid James coming out
I think Rachel Paris covered it pretty well on the Mash Report.
desolate said:
funkyrobot said:
My male colleagues told me, not my manager.
So there is no management expectation that you put up with it then?We all know s
t happens in the real world but no serious company would expect anyone to put up with it.t happens'. 'st happens' is your dog gets run over or you break a bone. Unless it occurs all the time it's a trivial bit of sexism. It happened to me at work and I waited and slapped the woman (customer) backside in revenge when she eventually returned. I think she was quite outraged, and didn't do it again. An understanding was reached between adults, if you like.desolate said:
funkyrobot said:
My male colleagues told me, not my manager.
So there is no management expectation that you put up with it then?We all know s
t happens in the real world but no serious company would expect anyone to put up with it.desolate said:
So there is no management expectation that you put up with it then?
We all know st happens in the real world but no serious company would expect anyone to put up with it.
Right. My male colleagues told me the other day that it will most probably happen. I said that's a bit off isn't it. I asked if any of them had mentioned it or they just put up with it. They were all too scared to and said that is just what the customers do. Either they aren't really bothered, or they are scared to raise it as the management team are all female and they don't want to risk hassle with their jobs. From what I have seen about the management, they won't deem it as a problem. They'll probably just tell you to grow a pair.We all know s
t happens in the real world but no serious company would expect anyone to put up with it.I've only been there a short while so it hasn't happened to me yet. If it does happen to me, I'll raise it.
I'm merely stating that as mentioned above, this stuff isn't black and white. Some people are genuinely scared to raise issues like this because they feel their job will be threatened if they complain. I had a run in with a female manager not so long ago at my previous job. She was doing some weird things. I raised them and the company basically did sweet fook all. I ended up leaving.
It's very, very difficult to raise issues like this when you are male. You are on the back foot straight away because anything involving a woman at work is usually pre determined to be the fault of the man. It's getting even worse now with all of the shenanigans around the metoo stuff.
The thing at the current work place just seems to be the norm. It shouldn't be, but if my current male colleagues (some of whom have been their years) aren't raising the issues, it will be harder for me to as I'm new and still under probation.
funkyrobot said:
The thing at the current work place just seems to be the norm. It shouldn't be, but if my current male colleagues (some of whom have been their years) aren't raising the issues, it will be harder for me to as I'm new and still under probation.
To isolate this bit - It shouldn't be the norm and until someone stand up to the management then nothing will change.
There are protections in place should you raise the matter and be treated negatively about it, even if you are a new starter.
desolate said:
To isolate this bit -
It shouldn't be the norm and until someone stand up to the management then nothing will change.
There are protections in place should you raise the matter and be treated negatively about it, even if you are a new starter.
Been there, done that, seen the reality I'm afraid.It shouldn't be the norm and until someone stand up to the management then nothing will change.
There are protections in place should you raise the matter and be treated negatively about it, even if you are a new starter.
There are protections in place. However, in the real world, who has the time and the money to fight these things?
funkyrobot said:
Been there, done that, seen the reality I'm afraid.
There are protections in place. However, in the real world, who has the time and the money to fight these things?
It's a sad indictment of your workplace that you feel that way. There are protections in place. However, in the real world, who has the time and the money to fight these things?
I do agree that on a personal level it's not easy to fight the battle. Maybe take popeyewhite's approach and bring the matter to a head
funkyrobot said:
Been there, done that, seen the reality I'm afraid.
There are protections in place. However, in the real world, who has the time and the money to fight these things?
Many, many years ago I worked in a cigarette factory in Stockport, the workforce of 250 (ish) was virtually all women. The stuff that went all the time there would make a docker blush. The behaviour of these women was far, far worse than anything I have seen or experienced involving males at work.There are protections in place. However, in the real world, who has the time and the money to fight these things?
desolate said:
It's a sad indictment of your workplace that you feel that way.
I do agree that on a personal level it's not easy to fight the battle. Maybe take popeyewhite's approach and bring the matter to a head
It's the old workplace that had the problems. As I said above, personally, I haven't yet had to raise any issues at my current work place. I hope I don't have to.I do agree that on a personal level it's not easy to fight the battle. Maybe take popeyewhite's approach and bring the matter to a head
popeyewhite said:
Many, many years ago I worked in a cigarette factory in Stockport, the workforce of 250 (ish) was virtually all women. The stuff that went all the time there would make a docker blush. The behaviour of these women was far, far worse than anything I have seen or experienced involving males at work.
At my old job, my female manager despised men in her team. However, she loved the male owner of the business. He'd say things to her like 'would love to see you in your bikini', 'why aren't you wearing your little maid's outfit today?' etc. She'd guffaw and giggle at that.I went through hell with their tinpot HR because she was doing things like waiting for me outside the toilet and accusing me of only going to the toilet to slack off and play on my phone. Which wasn't happening. Up until shortly before I left, I was the only male in the team (the previous chap left because they called him gay). A new lad started as I was in the process of leaving though and she used to lay into him something chronic. The women in the team would be disappearing left right and centre, would be walking around with their mobiles out showing pictures of their kids etc. But this was fine. All of this was raised with HR, who basically said it was my fault because I have general anxiety disorder.
Interestingly, she had marital issues. She was her husband's third wife and he was a right sexist pig. He used to come into work and make disgusting jokes about the women and my manager would just stand there and laugh awkwardly.
One of my old colleagues got married. We were all invited to the reception. My manager turned up with her husband who got pissed and spent the night trying to fondle the CEO's wife.
The CEO of the business was pretty much like Weinstein too. He'd only hire women he fancied. He hired a young 20 something marketing woman once. Made her wear a tight black dress for a company show they attended. He also had 'eyes' for his wife's daughter (his step daughter). The place was odd and I'm glad I've left it behind.
desolate said:
Sorry I misunderstood your post then.
I thought you were told that it was to be expected where you work now.
Old workplace - issues that were raised with a female manager.I thought you were told that it was to be expected where you work now.
New workplace - colleagues have informed me that I will probably get my bum pinched. I'll raise that if and when it happens to me. Maybe if I keep my distance I'll avoid it.
funkyrobot said:
Old workplace - issues that were raised with a female manager.
New workplace - colleagues have informed me that I will probably get my bum pinched. I'll raise that if and when it happens to me. Maybe if I keep my distance I'll avoid it.
Are you working in a place that does hen nights or Anne Summers parties or something?New workplace - colleagues have informed me that I will probably get my bum pinched. I'll raise that if and when it happens to me. Maybe if I keep my distance I'll avoid it.
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