Michael Hudson on Land, Banking and Socialism
Discussion
Does anyone have a handle on the mooted Land Values Tax calculation/methodology? It's keeping me awake at night. I'm assuming my 5-acre Surrey home (along with everyone else who owns an upper-band property) is right in the crosshairs.
I did find an internet link at election time and it suggested a tax of about £30k/yr based upon my property value, but this might have been sensationalist.
I thought I paid a lot of tax on my property already - the Stamp Duty upfront and the current £3k/year Council Tax. I'm not sure I could swallow a hike to £30k/yr (presumably payable from net salary) and the resultant destruction of the market value of the property.
I did find an internet link at election time and it suggested a tax of about £30k/yr based upon my property value, but this might have been sensationalist.
I thought I paid a lot of tax on my property already - the Stamp Duty upfront and the current £3k/year Council Tax. I'm not sure I could swallow a hike to £30k/yr (presumably payable from net salary) and the resultant destruction of the market value of the property.
Hereward said:
Does anyone have a handle on the mooted Land Values Tax calculation/methodology? It's keeping me awake at night. I'm assuming my 5-acre Surrey home (along with everyone else who owns an upper-band property) is right in the crosshairs.
I did find an internet link at election time and it suggested a tax of about £30k/yr based upon my property value, but this might have been sensationalist.
I thought I paid a lot of tax on my property already - the Stamp Duty upfront and the current £3k/year Council Tax. I'm not sure I could swallow a hike to £30k/yr (presumably payable from net salary) and the resultant destruction of the market value of the property.
Can't see it happening.I did find an internet link at election time and it suggested a tax of about £30k/yr based upon my property value, but this might have been sensationalist.
I thought I paid a lot of tax on my property already - the Stamp Duty upfront and the current £3k/year Council Tax. I'm not sure I could swallow a hike to £30k/yr (presumably payable from net salary) and the resultant destruction of the market value of the property.
Hereward said:
Does anyone have a handle on the mooted Land Values Tax calculation/methodology? It's keeping me awake at night. I'm assuming my 5-acre Surrey home (along with everyone else who owns an upper-band property) is right in the crosshairs.
I did find an internet link at election time and it suggested a tax of about £30k/yr based upon my property value, but this might have been sensationalist.
I thought I paid a lot of tax on my property already - the Stamp Duty upfront and the current £3k/year Council Tax. I'm not sure I could swallow a hike to £30k/yr (presumably payable from net salary) and the resultant destruction of the market value of the property.
You've had a good run with your bargain council tax payments for the last 20 years...I did find an internet link at election time and it suggested a tax of about £30k/yr based upon my property value, but this might have been sensationalist.
I thought I paid a lot of tax on my property already - the Stamp Duty upfront and the current £3k/year Council Tax. I'm not sure I could swallow a hike to £30k/yr (presumably payable from net salary) and the resultant destruction of the market value of the property.
5 acres or tiny plot, it matters little, it's about value not acreage. I would certainly expect your liability to increase...
But
LVT should be used to reduce other taxes. As I tried to suggest earlier, the intention of LVT is to move the burden of taxation from work and consumption onto land and rent.
There is a significant proportion of the economy that is undertaxed (And arguably detrimental to economic performance). LVT tries to address this.
turbobloke said:
That's one viewpoint, one among many and certainly not the absolute truth hinted at.
Another viewpoint holds that capitalism, including in its present form, has been good enough and done well enough to see off the alternatives including Corbyn-McDonnell marxism. In this alternative perspective, the failure rests with decades of left-liberalism including from UK governments regardless of tie colour, with its empty promises accompanied by patting little people on the head rather than listening to them. This has been misinterpreted by the liberal-left, thinking that it knows best at all times and now joined in the UK by the hard left, as a failure of capitalism rather than a failure closer to home. For contemporary left-liberal misdiagnoses and resulting failures of interpretation - resulting in political failure - see Brexit, Trump, Austria, AfD and so on.
Just another viewpoint, not absolute truth.
Do you really the policies advocated by Corbyn-McDonnell are Marxist? Another viewpoint holds that capitalism, including in its present form, has been good enough and done well enough to see off the alternatives including Corbyn-McDonnell marxism. In this alternative perspective, the failure rests with decades of left-liberalism including from UK governments regardless of tie colour, with its empty promises accompanied by patting little people on the head rather than listening to them. This has been misinterpreted by the liberal-left, thinking that it knows best at all times and now joined in the UK by the hard left, as a failure of capitalism rather than a failure closer to home. For contemporary left-liberal misdiagnoses and resulting failures of interpretation - resulting in political failure - see Brexit, Trump, Austria, AfD and so on.
Just another viewpoint, not absolute truth.
turbobloke said:
That's one viewpoint, one among many and certainly not the absolute truth hinted at.
Another viewpoint holds that capitalism, including in its present form, has been good enough and done well enough to see off the alternatives including Corbyn-McDonnell marxism. In this alternative perspective, the failure rests with decades of left-liberalism including from UK governments regardless of tie colour, with its empty promises accompanied by patting little people on the head rather than listening to them. This has been misinterpreted by the liberal-left, thinking that it knows best at all times and now joined in the UK by the hard left, as a failure of capitalism rather than a failure closer to home. For contemporary left-liberal misdiagnoses and resulting failures of interpretation - resulting in political failure - see Brexit, Trump, Austria, AfD and so on.
Just another viewpoint, not absolute truth.
I was putting forward a view, making no claim to absolute truth, either hinted or otherwise. Also I was not suggesting that Capitalism itself is wrong, as it is on balance the best system yet devised to deliver prosperity and freedom, but that the current variant of Capitalism is, as some commentators from both right and left agree, a damaging variant. BTW, is thinking that you know best the exclusive preserve of the left? Right wing thinkers seem quite good at that too. Another viewpoint holds that capitalism, including in its present form, has been good enough and done well enough to see off the alternatives including Corbyn-McDonnell marxism. In this alternative perspective, the failure rests with decades of left-liberalism including from UK governments regardless of tie colour, with its empty promises accompanied by patting little people on the head rather than listening to them. This has been misinterpreted by the liberal-left, thinking that it knows best at all times and now joined in the UK by the hard left, as a failure of capitalism rather than a failure closer to home. For contemporary left-liberal misdiagnoses and resulting failures of interpretation - resulting in political failure - see Brexit, Trump, Austria, AfD and so on.
Just another viewpoint, not absolute truth.
Corbyn and McDonnell may have Marxist views, but they are not advocating Marxist policies.
Maybe the opinions of billionaires should be sought. People like Bill Gates and George Soros and Warren Buffet. I think they'd all vote for an intergenerational death duty 'tax'. Come to think of it, some of them already do this in a way.
Perhaps we could prevent the intergenerational inheritance of more than, say, $10M.
Don't think redistributing wealth is necessarily a good idea. Before long it goes back to where it started. Try thinking more of basic essentials. Start with the biggies. Food, water, medicine. We can always leave sharing the cash cars and watches till later.
Perhaps we could prevent the intergenerational inheritance of more than, say, $10M.
Don't think redistributing wealth is necessarily a good idea. Before long it goes back to where it started. Try thinking more of basic essentials. Start with the biggies. Food, water, medicine. We can always leave sharing the cash cars and watches till later.
Fittster said:
turbobloke said:
That's one viewpoint, one among many and certainly not the absolute truth hinted at.
Another viewpoint holds that capitalism, including in its present form, has been good enough and done well enough to see off the alternatives including Corbyn-McDonnell marxism. In this alternative perspective, the failure rests with decades of left-liberalism including from UK governments regardless of tie colour, with its empty promises accompanied by patting little people on the head rather than listening to them. This has been misinterpreted by the liberal-left, thinking that it knows best at all times and now joined in the UK by the hard left, as a failure of capitalism rather than a failure closer to home. For contemporary left-liberal misdiagnoses and resulting failures of interpretation - resulting in political failure - see Brexit, Trump, Austria, AfD and so on.
Just another viewpoint, not absolute truth.
Do you really the policies advocated by Corbyn-McDonnell are Marxist? Another viewpoint holds that capitalism, including in its present form, has been good enough and done well enough to see off the alternatives including Corbyn-McDonnell marxism. In this alternative perspective, the failure rests with decades of left-liberalism including from UK governments regardless of tie colour, with its empty promises accompanied by patting little people on the head rather than listening to them. This has been misinterpreted by the liberal-left, thinking that it knows best at all times and now joined in the UK by the hard left, as a failure of capitalism rather than a failure closer to home. For contemporary left-liberal misdiagnoses and resulting failures of interpretation - resulting in political failure - see Brexit, Trump, Austria, AfD and so on.
Just another viewpoint, not absolute truth.
If you re-read the post, you'll see that I described a particular flavour, not a representation of some absolute, universal and singular definition which you appear to be referring to. Where and what is that? If we have McDonnell's hands on the UK economy they are the hands of a self-confessed marxist who has advocated insurrection to bring down an elected government and called for property to be confiscated.
McDonnell is outed as a liar by faking news that he's not a Marxist at the link below, with another revealing vid to go.
https://order-order.com/2017/05/07/mcdonnell-lies-...
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/john-mcdonne...
On this basis, where the strategy is to hide the truth / hide reality, how naïve does a person have to be to accept the idea (as put forward by McDonnell) that unlike Marx he merely wants to “transform” the capitalist system rather than work at destroying it?
Looking at what Corbyn and particularly McDonnell have said, and at the Labour manifesto for their failed general election strategy, what can be seen includes punitive taxes, nationalising businesses and attacks on private property. This is the Corbyn-McDonnell Marxism that I referred to above.
V8 Fettler said:
I doubt if most UK voters currently want a fairer society.
Probably most of the poorer voters do. The trick is to get them to not care, be content with their lot, and blame themselves for being poor in the first place. Nothing worse in a capitalist culture than some pov mouthing off about 'inequality'.
drainbrain said:
V8 Fettler said:
I doubt if most UK voters currently want a fairer society.
Probably most of the poorer voters do. The trick is to get them to not care, be content with their lot, and blame themselves for being poor in the first place. Nothing worse in a capitalist culture than some pov mouthing off about 'inequality'.
turbobloke said:
Fittster said:
turbobloke said:
That's one viewpoint, one among many and certainly not the absolute truth hinted at.
Another viewpoint holds that capitalism, including in its present form, has been good enough and done well enough to see off the alternatives including Corbyn-McDonnell marxism. In this alternative perspective, the failure rests with decades of left-liberalism including from UK governments regardless of tie colour, with its empty promises accompanied by patting little people on the head rather than listening to them. This has been misinterpreted by the liberal-left, thinking that it knows best at all times and now joined in the UK by the hard left, as a failure of capitalism rather than a failure closer to home. For contemporary left-liberal misdiagnoses and resulting failures of interpretation - resulting in political failure - see Brexit, Trump, Austria, AfD and so on.
Just another viewpoint, not absolute truth.
Do you really the policies advocated by Corbyn-McDonnell are Marxist? Another viewpoint holds that capitalism, including in its present form, has been good enough and done well enough to see off the alternatives including Corbyn-McDonnell marxism. In this alternative perspective, the failure rests with decades of left-liberalism including from UK governments regardless of tie colour, with its empty promises accompanied by patting little people on the head rather than listening to them. This has been misinterpreted by the liberal-left, thinking that it knows best at all times and now joined in the UK by the hard left, as a failure of capitalism rather than a failure closer to home. For contemporary left-liberal misdiagnoses and resulting failures of interpretation - resulting in political failure - see Brexit, Trump, Austria, AfD and so on.
Just another viewpoint, not absolute truth.
If you re-read the post, you'll see that I described a particular flavour, not a representation of some absolute, universal and singular definition which you appear to be referring to. Where and what is that? If we have McDonnell's hands on the UK economy they are the hands of a self-confessed marxist who has advocated insurrection to bring down an elected government and called for property to be confiscated.
McDonnell is outed as a liar by faking news that he's not a Marxist at the link below, with another revealing vid to go.
https://order-order.com/2017/05/07/mcdonnell-lies-...
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/john-mcdonne...
On this basis, where the strategy is to hide the truth / hide reality, how naïve does a person have to be to accept the idea (as put forward by McDonnell) that unlike Marx he merely wants to “transform” the capitalist system rather than work at destroying it?
Looking at what Corbyn and particularly McDonnell have said, and at the Labour manifesto for their failed general election strategy, what can be seen includes punitive taxes, nationalising businesses and attacks on private property. This is the Corbyn-McDonnell Marxism that I referred to above.
So they are lying to us, policies in manifestos aren't the real policies, & they will be able to subvert parliament and do whatever they want in pursuit of their "marxist" paradise?
Even if it was true, what it would need of course, is for a govt to pass some legislation that gave the executive powers to amend Acts without recourse to parliament..but no-one would be that daft would they?
Let's try and bring it back, as there are plenty of Tory v Labour threads. What about the big picture stuff? Is the form of Capitalism that has become dominant in the early C21 the one that delivers shared prosperity, freedom and fairness? Or is it sowing division and instability? I am not saying that those are the only questions.
Breadvan72 said:
Shall we try and bring it back, as there are plenty of Tory v labour threads. What about the big picture stuff? Is the form of Capitalism that has become dominant in the early C21 the one that delivers shared prosperity, freedom and fairness? Or is it sowing division and instability?
LOL! Does your office have a window?Breadvan72 said:
Let's try and bring it back, as there are plenty of Tory v Labour threads. What about the big picture stuff? Is the form of Capitalism that has become dominant in the early C21 the one that delivers shared prosperity, freedom and fairness? Or is it sowing division and instability? I am not saying that those are the only questions.
I agree with Prince Charles on this one. To paraphrase, not everyone can be surgeons, some people will have to accept they are hairdressers.More importantly, however, they have to be happy with what they get - a simple but reasonable lifestyle, the ability for the most able to have their skills recognised and used and to be socially mobile.
How do we do that?
Breadvan72 said:
From my office window I can only see an early seventeenth century hall, a library, and a rose garden. My questions were debating questions. You ought to be able to guess what I think the answers are.
This possibly illustrates the problem. As you recall it wasn't until he glanced out from his own environment thru a window that looked onto "the real world" that Gautama even realised there was a world other than what he understood as reality. Had he glanced thru the other window he may have seen only what he already knew and continued to believe that there was no wisdom beyond that to which he had already attained.
Whatever 'the answers' are may not be as relevant as whether or not the right questions are being asked.
Okay. Problems have arisen from 'isms' such as nationalism capitalism and communism. They have developed unsatisfactorily judging by the level of disgruntlement.
Might it be possible to develop an alternative system centred on freedom and fairness with material contentment replacing prosperity?
As a suggestion perhaps the system initiated by the early Xians seen in Acts ?
Not really communism, more 'communalism', including law against greed and selfishness (as illustrated by Ananias and Sapphira).
I'd like to hear why that wouldn't work, dare I say "better" than the current systems?
Might it be possible to develop an alternative system centred on freedom and fairness with material contentment replacing prosperity?
As a suggestion perhaps the system initiated by the early Xians seen in Acts ?
Not really communism, more 'communalism', including law against greed and selfishness (as illustrated by Ananias and Sapphira).
I'd like to hear why that wouldn't work, dare I say "better" than the current systems?
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