Discussion
ATG said:
crankedup5 said:
ATG said:
crankedup5 said:
Representation of the electoral mandate 2019, you may not like or agree with but it what it is.
At some stage you have to take on board that Boris did not win the last election. Corbyn lost it. The last GE was not some rapturous endorsement of the Conservative manifesto. It was the choice between the two weakest front benches of my adult life.BTW I’m not arguing that Boris should be brought back to fight the next G.E.
crankedup5 said:
ATG said:
crankedup5 said:
ATG said:
crankedup5 said:
Representation of the electoral mandate 2019, you may not like or agree with but it what it is.
At some stage you have to take on board that Boris did not win the last election. Corbyn lost it. The last GE was not some rapturous endorsement of the Conservative manifesto. It was the choice between the two weakest front benches of my adult life.BTW I’m not arguing that Boris should be brought back to fight the next G.E.
Taking of has-beens, somebody should prise young Blair out of his money factory to 'support' Starmer, that would be superb (for the Tories).
crankedup5 said:
But your garden furniture did not give the Tory Party an 80 seat majority 2019 did it.
BTW I’m not arguing that Boris should be brought back to fight the next G.E.
I’m far from convinced Boris would want to come back, he’s busy making £’s elsewhere much to the annoyance of many of his detractors.BTW I’m not arguing that Boris should be brought back to fight the next G.E.
don'tbesilly said:
I’m far from convinced Boris would want to come back, he’s busy making £’s elsewhere much to the annoyance of many of his detractors.
Precisely. He had no interest in or skill at governance, hence delegating so much authority to Cummings and Mirza. Just wanted the status and title, no interest in doing the actual job, illustrated by constant flip-flops, hence his aides desire to get a firm position on the record as he would inevitably change position.He's gone from perpetually in debt to very wealthy now, looking at his personal history he will need that cushion. At some point the musical chairs may stop but who knows, he is a master bull*hitter and may well be able to profit handsomely from it for the next 20 years.
I'm a detractor for sure as no one of that character should have been PM but he is a master entertainer and I don't begrudge an entertainer making money from entertaining. Hopefully it keeps him away from messing things up pretending to be PM.
He was actually the perfect bloke to be the PM. Just as he was the perfect bloke to the Mayor of London. Its the front man gig. The rockstar gig. Front of house. Sales/BizDev.
All of that works when you are part of a structured set up with the team in place around you. He waltzed through being Mayor as he a proper team around him and he waltzed No10 when he had Cummings running the show. As soon as he gave into Carrie, Cummings left and they had absolute knobbers running No10, the entire political operation went to pot.
Anyway, thats in the past. Priti is blah blah blah, Bojo is earning the after dinner dosh and Mogg doesnt really give a damn either way.
All of that works when you are part of a structured set up with the team in place around you. He waltzed through being Mayor as he a proper team around him and he waltzed No10 when he had Cummings running the show. As soon as he gave into Carrie, Cummings left and they had absolute knobbers running No10, the entire political operation went to pot.
Anyway, thats in the past. Priti is blah blah blah, Bojo is earning the after dinner dosh and Mogg doesnt really give a damn either way.
ATG said:
The accusations are baseless if you bring your brain to the table. Is £2 billion quid's worth of assets large or small compared to the turnover and liabilities of the C of E? Look at their accounts ...
I had a look at the 2021 accounts out of curiosity, total assets minus liabilities was 10.2 billion pounds and cash flow at the end of the year was plus £683 million.DeejRC said:
He was actually the perfect bloke to be the PM. Just as he was the perfect bloke to the Mayor of London. Its the front man gig. The rockstar gig. Front of house. Sales/BizDev.
All of that works when you are part of a structured set up with the team in place around you. He waltzed through being Mayor as he a proper team around him and he waltzed No10 when he had Cummings running the show. As soon as he gave into Carrie, Cummings left and they had absolute knobbers running No10, the entire political operation went to pot.
Anyway, thats in the past. Priti is blah blah blah, Bojo is earning the after dinner dosh and Mogg doesnt really give a damn either way.
Yep blame his wife.All of that works when you are part of a structured set up with the team in place around you. He waltzed through being Mayor as he a proper team around him and he waltzed No10 when he had Cummings running the show. As soon as he gave into Carrie, Cummings left and they had absolute knobbers running No10, the entire political operation went to pot.
Anyway, thats in the past. Priti is blah blah blah, Bojo is earning the after dinner dosh and Mogg doesnt really give a damn either way.
Much easier than admitting the man was never suited to high office.
Brave strong Boris our Churchill.
We can blame his wife, the pandemic, or something else. But the end result was the political operation behind No 10, which is supposed to ensure forensic attention to policy detail and heavyweight thinking was more interested in heavyweight drinking.
And Priti Patel is just a symptom of that. Someone who doesn't have intellectual rigour to develop robust policy. But was also undermined by her own team of civil servants (who clearly have their own agenda).
And Priti Patel is just a symptom of that. Someone who doesn't have intellectual rigour to develop robust policy. But was also undermined by her own team of civil servants (who clearly have their own agenda).
don'tbesilly said:
I’m far from convinced Boris would want to come back, he’s busy making £’s elsewhere much to the annoyance of many of his detractors.
Keep up, Boris wants to comeback. The bizarrely named Conservative Democratic Organisation held their first conference In Bournemouth at the weekend, the main agenda was undermining Sunak and reinstating Bozza.We’ve also got the rise of the Conservative Nationalists this week, Monty Python anyone. As for detractors being annoyed that a self serving, proven liar, with clear links to some of the most nefarious characters on the planet is doing fine, have a long look.
It's slightly off topic, but my view is that Conservatives will get pasted at the next election. Whilst Sunak is extremely clever and competent, and he could probably run any PLC, he isn't a great communicator. And he lacks warmth and empathy. Which as a CEO doesn't often really matter. But as a Prime Minister, it can be essential.
And as a country, we wasted far too much on our covid response, which now acts like a fiscal lead-weight around the neck of any government restricting what can actually be afforded.
So once Boris has made a few more million, and the Tories have ejected Sunak, and Starmer doesn't turn out to be much better, I think we will see Boris having another go at it. And I think he will win too.
And as a country, we wasted far too much on our covid response, which now acts like a fiscal lead-weight around the neck of any government restricting what can actually be afforded.
So once Boris has made a few more million, and the Tories have ejected Sunak, and Starmer doesn't turn out to be much better, I think we will see Boris having another go at it. And I think he will win too.
EddieSteadyGo said:
It's slightly off topic, but my view is that Conservatives will get pasted at the next election. Whilst Sunak is extremely clever and competent, and he could probably run any PLC, he isn't a great communicator. And he lacks warmth and empathy. Which as a CEO doesn't often really matter. But as a Prime Minister, it can be essential.
And as a country, we wasted far too much on our covid response, which now acts like a fiscal lead-weight around the neck of any government restricting what can actually be afforded.
So once Boris has made a few more million, and the Tories have ejected Sunak, and Starmer doesn't turn out to be much better, I think we will see Boris having another go at it. And I think he will win too.
Competent enough to lose billions in covid loans to fraudsters and launch eat out to help out at the height of the pandemic, thereby effectively paying out millions to actually make thousands of people sick (the spike in numbers after August was attributed to the restaurant scheme)..And as a country, we wasted far too much on our covid response, which now acts like a fiscal lead-weight around the neck of any government restricting what can actually be afforded.
So once Boris has made a few more million, and the Tories have ejected Sunak, and Starmer doesn't turn out to be much better, I think we will see Boris having another go at it. And I think he will win too.
Blue62 said:
Keep up, Boris wants to comeback. The bizarrely named Conservative Democratic Organisation held their first conference In Bournemouth at the weekend, the main agenda was undermining Sunak and reinstating Bozza.
We’ve also got the rise of the Conservative Nationalists this week, Monty Python anyone. As for detractors being annoyed that a self serving, proven liar, with clear links to some of the most nefarious characters on the planet is doing fine, have a long look.
And where was the lazy so and so himself? Not there, probably on holiday as usual or coining it in.We’ve also got the rise of the Conservative Nationalists this week, Monty Python anyone. As for detractors being annoyed that a self serving, proven liar, with clear links to some of the most nefarious characters on the planet is doing fine, have a long look.
Get your minions to do all the grunt work, do the absolute minimum in terns of effort. Exactly what he was like as PM..
cgt2 said:
don'tbesilly said:
I’m far from convinced Boris would want to come back, he’s busy making £’s elsewhere much to the annoyance of many of his detractors.
Precisely. He had no interest in or skill at governance, hence delegating so much authority to Cummings and Mirza. Just wanted the status and title, no interest in doing the actual job, illustrated by constant flip-flops, hence his aides desire to get a firm position on the record as he would inevitably change position.He's gone from perpetually in debt to very wealthy now, looking at his personal history he will need that cushion. At some point the musical chairs may stop but who knows, he is a master bull*hitter and may well be able to profit handsomely from it for the next 20 years.
I'm a detractor for sure as no one of that character should have been PM but he is a master entertainer and I don't begrudge an entertainer making money from entertaining. Hopefully it keeps him away from messing things up pretending to be PM.
leader for election. The personality being more important than political intellect, certainly the past couple of decades seem to be bearing out that situation. Having said that suddenly we have the prospect of a Prime Minister completely devoid of character, charm or public persona that is ‘sparkling’. Dunno !
cgt2 said:
Competent enough to lose billions in covid loans to fraudsters and launch eat out to help out at the height of the pandemic, thereby effectively paying out millions to actually make thousands of people sick (the spike in numbers after August was attributed to the restaurant scheme)..
Can't be bothered with the argument about more getting sick - it was obvious everyone was going to get covid, multiple times, and it would become endemic. The policy mistake was trying to appease those who thought (wrongly) covid could be suppressed whilst trying to silence those who thought 'mitigation' was the right strategy. Even the CCP realised eventually suppression was impossible. Most of the covid policy mistakes stem from that error.But if we recall, there were some very shrill voices *demanding* action (see voices like Piers Morgan). Regardless whether the evidence supported that action. Hence why we nearly had vaccine passports, based on the false premise that vaccines helped reduce transmission, when it fact that was not true.
And whilst I don't warm to Sunak, I think most fair-minded people would conclude he is both clever and competent. But I'd probably (reluctantly) give that to Starmer too.
EddieSteadyGo said:
And whilst I don't warm to Sunak, I think most fair-minded people would conclude he is both clever and competent. But I'd probably (reluctantly) give that to Starmer too.
I see it slightly differently, less incompetent than his predecessors but I've still yet to see evidence of competence. Perhaps if he stops dancing to the hard right faction's demands he will be able to show some competence.cgt2 said:
Competent enough to lose billions in covid loans to fraudsters and launch eat out to help out at the height of the pandemic, thereby effectively paying out millions to actually make thousands of people sick (the spike in numbers after August was attributed to the restaurant scheme)..
Funny how everywhere in Europe also saw v large rises in covid cases pretty much exactly like here. Perhaps the eat out scheme was to blame for that too though........EddieSteadyGo said:
And whilst I don't warm to Sunak, I think most fair-minded people would conclude he is both clever and competent.
He's weak though, being powerless to stop the right of the party constantly undermining him.Regardless of his other attributes, voters don't tend to go for parties that are fighting amongst themselves like rats in a sack.
EddieSteadyGo said:
It's slightly off topic, but my view is that Conservatives will get pasted at the next election. Whilst Sunak is extremely clever and competent, and he could probably run any PLC, he isn't a great communicator. And he lacks warmth and empathy. Which as a CEO doesn't often really matter. But as a Prime Minister, it can be essential.
And as a country, we wasted far too much on our covid response, which now acts like a fiscal lead-weight around the neck of any government restricting what can actually be afforded.
So once Boris has made a few more million, and the Tories have ejected Sunak, and Starmer doesn't turn out to be much better, I think we will see Boris having another go at it. And I think he will win too.
Just to bring some reality back. And as a country, we wasted far too much on our covid response, which now acts like a fiscal lead-weight around the neck of any government restricting what can actually be afforded.
So once Boris has made a few more million, and the Tories have ejected Sunak, and Starmer doesn't turn out to be much better, I think we will see Boris having another go at it. And I think he will win too.
He wasn't able to beat Liz Truss. In a pool of lightweights he is third choice, behind Johnson who couldn't stand and Liz Truss who actually won.
I don't think he really has what it takes to run a PLC otherwise he would be running a PLC (and making much more moneythan he currently is).
smn159 said:
He's weak though, being powerless to stop the right of the party constantly undermining him.
...
Yes, but why is that? Multiple reasons of course, but I'd say fundamentally it is economics. We now have rampant inflation, fuelled long before the Ukraine war, mainly due to how we printed money during the covid years like the money tree existed. ...
And all that money/spending went on the national debt, which means I would imagine it must be surging towards £3 trillion.
And as a result of all that, we have little fiscal room for manoeuvre. So we then need very high taxes, for often very mediocre public services.
All that creates a lot of political frustration, on the left and right. But we are just seeing the aftermath of the car crash happening now in slow motion - most of the causes occurred by decisions made in 2020-22. Whether Starmer or Sunak was Prime Minister, I doubt they would do much different now.
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