New cash cow junction in London
Discussion
768 said:
If the perspective of someone who walks past a junction every day isn't the standard we should be aiming for then I just don't know what is.
I can use empathy - I do drive so I know what I'd be looking for. Given the average speed in the City of London during the day is about 5 mph you'd have plenty of time to see the plethora of signs. Moreover as it's in the congestion charging zone so I can't imagine that many people go through except for work (taxi, delivery etc) in any case.768 said:
_Marvin said:
I can use empathy...
You don't need empathy to realise the best part of 1000 people a day not understanding the rules at a junction is down to one bad design.£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Sunday 19th November 20:01
Use this junction daily, due at my desk by 7am so regularly run a little late...more than 2 mins past 7 and I divert via broad gate, making me 3 more minutes late.
Got a warning for this myself, got caught going home (now go via Aldgate/minories if leaving before 7pm) on the first day of operation!
Thing is, cars, vans, lorry's maybe....buses are just about the worst driven things on the road (barring taxi's/minicabs) - why can't motorbikes use it? - we're just as vulnerable!
Got a warning for this myself, got caught going home (now go via Aldgate/minories if leaving before 7pm) on the first day of operation!
Thing is, cars, vans, lorry's maybe....buses are just about the worst driven things on the road (barring taxi's/minicabs) - why can't motorbikes use it? - we're just as vulnerable!
kiethton said:
Use this junction daily, due at my desk by 7am so regularly run a little late...more than 2 mins past 7 and I divert via broad gate, making me 3 more minutes late.
Got a warning for this myself, got caught going home (now go via Aldgate/minories if leaving before 7pm) on the first day of operation!
Thing is, cars, vans, lorry's maybe....buses are just about the worst driven things on the road (barring taxi's/minicabs) - why can't motorbikes use it? - we're just as vulnerable!
I said earlier if theyre going to do something like this they should ban buses tooGot a warning for this myself, got caught going home (now go via Aldgate/minories if leaving before 7pm) on the first day of operation!
Thing is, cars, vans, lorry's maybe....buses are just about the worst driven things on the road (barring taxi's/minicabs) - why can't motorbikes use it? - we're just as vulnerable!
but the way the law is set up they can only use automatic camera enforcement if there are buses
so not much revenue in it
TooMany2cvs said:
It isn't "best part of 1000 people/day"
£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
As a point of fact, to anyone who ever did maths; 634 is the best part of 1000.£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Sunday 19th November 20:01
Einion Yrth said:
TooMany2cvs said:
It isn't "best part of 1000 people/day"
£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
As a point of fact, to anyone who ever did maths; 634 is the best part of 1000.£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
deckster said:
Bizarre statement. Who else other than the local council would decide?
not really. the taxpayer provided the funds for the country's infrastructure at the outset then along come the virtue signalling bandwagon jumpers deciding who and what can use this infrastructure based on the latest hot topic, co2,particulates,noise pollution etc etc. the response to that should really be ,if you don't like the things that come with city living, live somewhere else while those that would like to actually get about under their own steam get on with it.if we had public transport fit for purpose i might be more amenable to these kind of ideas ,but we don't,so i'm not . when councils actively make my journey within any city more difficult than it already is i don't go there any more. edinburgh won't see a penny of mine spent there ever again for instance. no great loss to either edinburgh or myself ,just my take on it.
Edited by wc98 on Monday 20th November 00:02
TooMany2cvs said:
Einion Yrth said:
TooMany2cvs said:
It isn't "best part of 1000 people/day"
£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
As a point of fact, to anyone who ever did maths; 634 is the best part of 1000.£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
TooMany2cvs said:
It isn't "best part of 1000 people/day"
£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
I didn't think it was possible to sound adenoidal in writing but you nailed it! We'll done.£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Sunday 19th November 20:01
t in a thread about a junction where that regularly DOES happen.schmunk said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Einion Yrth said:
TooMany2cvs said:
It isn't "best part of 1000 people/day"
£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
As a point of fact, to anyone who ever did maths; 634 is the best part of 1000.£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
There's an argument to say we have too many sign formats for similar information.
The blue/white is providing positive access information. This is then followed up with a red/white sign providing negative access information. There's a debate that the blue/white is passive and so users will quietly ignore it.
If they really wanted to ban cars/vans/bikes etc they could have used a red circled sign as that's very explicit followed with a buss only access text, that would be clearer.
Out of interest why do we have both red circles and red circles with a red line though? They both mean the same thing, people seem to think the absence of the slash implies it's permitted. seems silly to have two sign formats showing the same information. Cambridge has this issue, red circles with bicycles in shows when bicycles are banned but ask most people and they assume because there's no slash it's showing it's permitted. Of course drivers get a very basic multi-choice question on this when learning, cyclists don't even get that!
The blue/white is providing positive access information. This is then followed up with a red/white sign providing negative access information. There's a debate that the blue/white is passive and so users will quietly ignore it.
If they really wanted to ban cars/vans/bikes etc they could have used a red circled sign as that's very explicit followed with a buss only access text, that would be clearer.
Out of interest why do we have both red circles and red circles with a red line though? They both mean the same thing, people seem to think the absence of the slash implies it's permitted. seems silly to have two sign formats showing the same information. Cambridge has this issue, red circles with bicycles in shows when bicycles are banned but ask most people and they assume because there's no slash it's showing it's permitted. Of course drivers get a very basic multi-choice question on this when learning, cyclists don't even get that!
Einion Yrth said:
schmunk said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Einion Yrth said:
TooMany2cvs said:
It isn't "best part of 1000 people/day"
£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
As a point of fact, to anyone who ever did maths; 634 is the best part of 1000.£7m in £130 fines is 53,846 fines.
Across four months of five-day weeks (17.3 weeks), that's 634/day.
Yes, that's roughly one a minute. But have you ever been there?
The Mail said:
106,357 fines were issued
Fines paid within 14 days aren't £130, they're £65. I haven't done the maths to divide 106357 by 17.3(?!) weeks either, but feel free to repeat with those numbers and then play semantics again.saaby93 said:
kiethton said:
Use this junction daily, due at my desk by 7am so regularly run a little late...more than 2 mins past 7 and I divert via broad gate, making me 3 more minutes late.
Got a warning for this myself, got caught going home (now go via Aldgate/minories if leaving before 7pm) on the first day of operation!
Thing is, cars, vans, lorry's maybe....buses are just about the worst driven things on the road (barring taxi's/minicabs) - why can't motorbikes use it? - we're just as vulnerable!
I said earlier if theyre going to do something like this they should ban buses tooGot a warning for this myself, got caught going home (now go via Aldgate/minories if leaving before 7pm) on the first day of operation!
Thing is, cars, vans, lorry's maybe....buses are just about the worst driven things on the road (barring taxi's/minicabs) - why can't motorbikes use it? - we're just as vulnerable!
but the way the law is set up they can only use automatic camera enforcement if there are buses
so not much revenue in it
Buses are a fundamental part of the public transport system, that more people use that bi-cycles. Despite your own prejudices, you are in a minority position.
Mandalore said:
saaby93 said:
kiethton said:
Use this junction daily, due at my desk by 7am so regularly run a little late...more than 2 mins past 7 and I divert via broad gate, making me 3 more minutes late.
Got a warning for this myself, got caught going home (now go via Aldgate/minories if leaving before 7pm) on the first day of operation!
Thing is, cars, vans, lorry's maybe....buses are just about the worst driven things on the road (barring taxi's/minicabs) - why can't motorbikes use it? - we're just as vulnerable!
I said earlier if theyre going to do something like this they should ban buses tooGot a warning for this myself, got caught going home (now go via Aldgate/minories if leaving before 7pm) on the first day of operation!
Thing is, cars, vans, lorry's maybe....buses are just about the worst driven things on the road (barring taxi's/minicabs) - why can't motorbikes use it? - we're just as vulnerable!
but the way the law is set up they can only use automatic camera enforcement if there are buses
so not much revenue in it
Buses are a fundamental part of the public transport system, that more people use that bi-cycles. Despite your own prejudices, you are in a minority position.
It's not a prejudice - I only meant ban them from that junction, if they want to stop traffic going through it 7am to 7pm like everything else motorised.
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