British Gas Cowboys?

[HustleRussell]

My Mum has (If I remember correctly) British Gas ‘homecare’, which means they come in annually to do a safety check. This time they’ve affixed a scary looking yellow tag to the boiler basically condemning it. It actually says ‘do not use this appliance’ and ‘do not remove this label’. Obviously my Mum was a bit worried by this. I looked at the report the engineer left and it said the boiler was dangerous because the flue was rusted and could cause combustion gasses to leak into the room, and we should have a new boiler ASAP.

Forgive me for being a bit cynical but does that not sound like a bit of a bks reason to condemn the boiler?

I’ve not had the cover off the boiler so I’m not sure if you inspect the flue from there or whether he’s poked a borescope down the flue from outside, or if it is indeed total bks. I’m surprised they’d make the flue out of carbon steel even if galvanised given that the part where it attaches to the heat exchanger must get properly hot.

The boiler was there when we moved in 10 years ago so it’s getting on a bit but we’ve no particular cause to change it.

I’ve put a CO detector in for the time being as we are for the time being continuing to use the boiler.

[popeyewhite]

Had my (8 year old) boiler yellow-tagged but not by BG. The previous one - older design - lasted 20 years. Purchased a new boiler at vast cost, but a different make. 8 years is pathetic.

[Duke of Kidderminster]

so they've condemned the boiler for a valid reason and you call them cowboys? the flue is pretty important and a failure in it can be deadly in serious cases.

the boiler is tagged not because it is broken or because it needs replacing. you need a new flue. get that repaired and the boiler will be recertified as valid most likely.

And using the boiler while it is in the state might be fine, but it likely voids your home insurance.

Edited by Duke of Kidderminster on Monday 20th November 09:49

[dickymint]

Duke of Kidderminster said:

so they've condemned the boiler for a valid reason and you call them cowboys? the flue is pretty important and a failure in it can be deadly in serious cases.

the boiler is tagged not because it is broken or because it needs replacing. you need a new flue. get that repaired and the boiler will be recertified as valid most likely.

And using the boiler while it is in the state might be fine, but it likely voids your home insurance.

Edited by Duke of Kidderminster on Monday 20th November 09:49

But why did the "engineer" tell Her a new boiler was required? And why didn't they offer a repair?
It sounds like scaremongering to me.

I take it it was tagged as "at risk" and not disconnected - did they ask for permission to disconnect?

[Duke of Kidderminster]

dickymint said:

Duke of Kidderminster said:

so they've condemned the boiler for a valid reason and you call them cowboys? the flue is pretty important and a failure in it can be deadly in serious cases.

the boiler is tagged not because it is broken or because it needs replacing. you need a new flue. get that repaired and the boiler will be recertified as valid most likely.

And using the boiler while it is in the state might be fine, but it likely voids your home insurance.

Edited by Duke of Kidderminster on Monday 20th November 09:49

But why did the "engineer" tell Her a new boiler was required? And why didn't they offer a repair?
It sounds like scaremongering to me.

I take it it was tagged as "at risk" and not disconnected - did they ask for permission to disconnect?

Without seeing photos of the damage none of us can comment on it. the rust could be on a joint of a non-serviceable part or uneconomical to repair for a whole bunch of reasons. Also, any repair would need to be to new current flue standards, which the existing boiler may no longer meet, hence a repair is not possible. Sure, the cynical view is that BG are trying to make some money out of this, but another point of view is that the engineer genuinely sees it as a hazard and a new boiler required.

they don't need to ask for permission to disconnect it if there is a risk. they will just go ahead and do so. it's the law.

[bazjude2998]

To add the engineer is duty bound to highlight any problems that may cause danger to the owner/ user.”Duty of Care “ How would you react to this so called cowboy if someone ended up in hospital or worse.

[dickymint]

Duke of Kidderminster said:

Without seeing photos of the damage none of us can comment on it. the rust could be on a joint of a non-serviceable part or uneconomical to repair for a whole bunch of reasons. Also, any repair would need to be to new current flue standards, which the existing boiler may no longer meet, hence a repair is not possible. Sure, the cynical view is that BG are trying to make some money out of this, but another point of view is that the engineer genuinely sees it as a hazard and a new boiler required.

they don't need to ask for permission to disconnect it if there is a risk. they will just go ahead and do so. it's the law.

Totally agree with you apart from the last bit. My understanding is Gas man must ask permission always. If it's "at immediate dangerous" he should then contact the supplier who then has authority to enter property and disconnect.

However if its "at risk" and permission isn't given he then just leaves the documentation and makes out his report as per usual.

It sounds like the latter as the OP seems to using it.

[Fleegle]

I'd not use British Gas again. We had the homecare and every time it came to service or renewal we would get the full monty.....old boiler, parts being discontinued, we can do a deal on a new one, blah blah

Last time they came the condemned the boiler due to the outer casing showing signs of deterioration. The engineer disconnected the gas feed to the boiler and capped it off. 2 hours later we were ringing the emergency line due to the smell of gas. The so called engineer had fitted the end cap without an olive!!

What followed was a lot of grovelling from BG. Not enough for me ever to be a customer of theirs again though.

[Dave_ST220]

Long story very short, BG tried the same on my elderly mother. I caught them out & got a new boiler fitted for cost price. Karma.

I wouldn't touch BG unless you have some know how and know when you are being lied to. The fact that their engineers carry "money off a new boiler voucher" says it all IMO. Had personally used them prior to this and got great service, you can't tar all of their engineers with the same brush obviously.

[Slagathore]

HustleRussell said:

My Mum has (If I remember correctly) British Gas ‘homecare’, which means they come in annually to do a safety check. This time they’ve affixed a scary looking yellow tag to the boiler basically condemning it. It actually says ‘do not use this appliance’ and ‘do not remove this label’. Obviously my Mum was a bit worried by this. I looked at the report the engineer left and it said the boiler was dangerous because the flue was rusted and could cause combustion gasses to leak into the room, and we should have a new boiler ASAP.

Forgive me for being a bit cynical but does that not sound like a bit of a bks reason to condemn the boiler?

I’ve not had the cover off the boiler so I’m not sure if you inspect the flue from there or whether he’s poked a borescope down the flue from outside, or if it is indeed total bks. I’m surprised they’d make the flue out of carbon steel even if galvanised given that the part where it attaches to the heat exchanger must get properly hot.

The boiler was there when we moved in 10 years ago so it’s getting on a bit but we’ve no particular cause to change it.

I’ve put a CO detector in for the time being as we are for the time being continuing to use the boiler.

What brand is it?

I've seen corrosion inside a flue on a really cheap, st boiler while doing a boiler swap with a mate, but I don't know how it would have been visible without taking the flue out like we had, and even with that corrosion, it still passed a safety certificate previously. Even as bad as it was, it wasn't even close to failing. They don't remove the flue on a safety test, but they do inspect it, so I guess it's not unthinkable that they could use a borescope to find problems to pressure people into having it replaced.

The new Vaillant he fitted has the exhaust gasses go through a smaller, plastic flue that runs through the metal one, so the bit the dangerous gasses run through can't rust/erode and leak.

I guess that is standard now, but if it wasn't whenever that boiler was manufactured or installed, it could be a legitimate warning?

Having said that, they are robbing tts, so I would get someone else in for a 2nd opinion if it would help put your mum at ease. If it were genuinely dangerous, he wouldn't have left it running.

[Fore Left]

In the interest of balance when the BG engineer serviced my boiler last year his only comment was that some parts such as the case will no longer be available, no condemnation of doom, no attempt to sell me a new boiler.

[popeyewhite]

If I was you I'd turn it off right now until you get someone else to have a look.

[King Herald]

Our boiler was marked and tagged as unsafe every year, by Homecare, merely because it did not conform to the latest safety regulations. However, they are not retroactive so they cannot force us to fit a new boiler just because it is old fashioned, obsolete, and because some safety guy decided a flue now has to be a different length or shape.

Our house was rented out and some silly cow at our agents made it her mission to make us fit a new boiler, emailing me to tell me the gas pipe had been capped off by Homecare and the tenants had no heating!

All BS, as I found out after several expensive phone calls from the other side of the world.

However, if your flue IS leaking inside the house then it is a safety hazard.

[trev540]

a friend had her boiler condemned by BG service man, that night she had a phone call from a very large heating firm offering a cheaper price than whatever BG offer her.

[King Herald]

BG quoted us £3500 to do ours, but even the engineer giving the quote told us it was a ridiculous price and to go to a local plumber. We paid £1650 eventually, when we finally got around to doing it some 5 years later.

[Screechmr2]

HustleRussell said:

My Mum has (If I remember correctly) British Gas ‘homecare’, which means they come in annually to do a safety check. This time they’ve affixed a scary looking yellow tag to the boiler basically condemning it. It actually says ‘do not use this appliance’ and ‘do not remove this label’. Obviously my Mum was a bit worried by this. I looked at the report the engineer left and it said the boiler was dangerous because the flue was rusted and could cause combustion gasses to leak into the room, and we should have a new boiler ASAP.

Forgive me for being a bit cynical but does that not sound like a bit of a bks reason to condemn the boiler?

I’ve not had the cover off the boiler so I’m not sure if you inspect the flue from there or whether he’s poked a borescope down the flue from outside, or if it is indeed total bks. I’m surprised they’d make the flue out of carbon steel even if galvanised given that the part where it attaches to the heat exchanger must get properly hot.

The boiler was there when we moved in 10 years ago so it’s getting on a bit but we’ve no particular cause to change it.

I’ve put a CO detector in for the time being as we are for the time being continuing to use the boiler.

I can't believe you are calling someone a cowboy for looking after your mother's safety. If the flue is corroded it can cause serious combustion issues, I've had ones corrode through, only a small hole but that is enough for them to start producing 6000+ parts per million of carbon monoxide. If the engineer missed it and something happened they could be prosecuted. Death by carbon monoxide has resulted in gas engineers being imprisoned.

Flues do corrode, I've seen plenty rot away. But I guess you must know better than any gasman.

[King Herald]

Screechmr2 said:

I can't believe you are calling someone a cowboy for looking after your mother's safety. If the flue is corroded it can cause serious combustion issues, I've had ones corrode through, only a small hole but that is enough for them to start producing 6000+ parts per million of carbon monoxide. If the engineer missed it and something happened they could be prosecuted. Death by carbon monoxide has resulted in gas engineers being imprisoned.

Flues do corrode, I've seen plenty rot away. But I guess you must know better than any gasman.

I was told that if it were a truly life endangering fault the BG guy is legally obliged to disconnect it, not just give an advisory. Not sure how true that is, but it make sense.

Thus I would guess this rusty flue is not dangerous, yet.

I’d definitly have a carbon monoxide detector fitted in the house, in the boiler room, whatever the case. And make sure your mum knows what it means if it goes off.

Edited by King Herald on Tuesday 21st November 07:24

[Screechmr2]

immediately dangerous = it is spilling fumes or leaking gas

at risk = it might start doing it in future. poor combustion can enter a building at another point, even had them hospitalise neighbours before because the wind blew in a certain direction and the fumes entered their house.

'at risk' boilers have killed people. one day the boiler could be fine, the next it isn't. even a few hours can make a difference, just because at that 1 point in time it passed doesn't mean it'll be fine the whole time. a corroded flue can go from passing a combustion test to failing it miserably the following day, that's not to say it'll happen here but this is why the 'at risk' exists, by using this classification it means if anything now happens the gasman is not responsible, it's up to the user to take the chance.

calling someone a cowboy for following the regulations is ridiculous. i take it if your car failed an mot because the brake pads were completely shot the mot tester would be a cowboy?

Edited by Screechmr2 on Tuesday 21st November 07:36

[Sa Calobra]

I can kinda see where the op is coming from.

I.e. You need a new boiler.
I had sales lies whenever ones been to mine.

[forest07]

A cowboy would have just ignored the problem.
My mother has just had her service visit from British Gas on her boiler which is over15 years old and again was told, don't go and change your boiler it will go for a few years yet! So they are clearly not all salesmen.