Carrilion in trouble
Discussion
eccles said:
crankedup said:
This shambles of a Company has 20,000 people who are involved with the outcome, looks very bleak for them at the moment.
Is your lad one of them or has he moved on to better things?He now works for a very special Company maintaining thier private properties. His second interview for the job took him to plush offices in Mayfair. Chalk and cheese never more appropriate.
eccles said:
crankedup said:
eccles said:
crankedup said:
This shambles of a Company has 20,000 people who are involved with the outcome, looks very bleak for them at the moment.
Is your lad one of them or has he moved on to better things?He now works for a very special Company maintaining thier private properties. His second interview for the job took him to plush offices in Mayfair. Chalk and cheese never more appropriate.
We were hoping for better things when Babcocks lost the contract, but the staff just got TUPE'd over, even the idiots, and the already low standards just got worse.
I feel sorry for the few competent and decent blokes working for them struggling to get things done with little or no support.
te Company as carrilion. Some tts in here post pure garbage not knowing just how bad things are for decent skilled people. Companieslike carillion hold back our highly skilled workforce.
Ecosseven said:
Sad to hear about Carillion potentially going to the wall. I worked for them for 9 years as a design Engineer (1997 - 2006). There were some decent people working for them when I was there but they were always pretty ruthless in the way they treated their sub-contractors and suppliers. It's the low and middle tier staff that will suffer and be concerned how they are going to pay the bills if the company goes under.
I have a small amount of shares that are practically worthless and I written these off, but I'm more worried about my pension given the massive hole in the pension fund.
Questions to be offered to carillion CEO and board, bunch of wan*ers .I have a small amount of shares that are practically worthless and I written these off, but I'm more worried about my pension given the massive hole in the pension fund.
Edited by Ecosseven on Friday 12th January 19:40
Jockman said:
GT03ROB said:
But isn't that just companies reacting to the way tenders are awarded? I spent a long time working for a very successful LSTK EPC contractor. We would evaluate & award bids from subcontractors based on a sensitivity & equalisation analysis of their proposal not their actual proposal. It meant we didn't always award to the lowest bidder. The fault lies in the evaluation & award process. I repeat buy cheap buy twice. The same company executes work for the UK government very profitably without carillon's issues.
I do a lot of work with the Coop, Rob. They are >very< interested in the financial health of my company and whilst price is important they use a variety of metrics in deciding on tenders.Carillion founded 1999.
OK the co-op have had recent problems but had the strength and asset value behind it to be able to ride it through. Whereas Carillion !
BAM225 said:
crankedup said:
Co-op founded 1844 (may be stretching it a little)
Carillion founded 1999.
OK the co-op have had recent problems but had the strength and asset value behind it to be able to ride it through. Whereas Carillion !
The co-op also inject cash from there other companies into the co-op brand to keep it afloat.Carillion founded 1999.
OK the co-op have had recent problems but had the strength and asset value behind it to be able to ride it through. Whereas Carillion !
Whereas carillion doesn't.
BAM225 said:
crankedup said:
Yes, as I mentioned they have an asset base. Carillion have sfa except a Board of Directors consisting of total incompetence and arrogance, a former CEO who swayed off last September taking a six million pound ta very much and a massive group of subbie Companies that many have not been paid in months. The fall out is going to be a disaster for many good hard working SME and thier employees. And posters in here questioned why I had the terremity to raise the Carilion issue last November
Anyone in the construction industry knows to avoid carillion like the plaque anyway in all honesty.Of course if you like your workers being killed and carillion not learning lessons + plus never being paid on time (if at all) then carillion are the best company to work for / do business with!
t storm. The Government need to learn from this sorry state of affairs, but likely won’t.shouldbworking said:
Have to say it's nice to see the government not rushing to bail out a st company (we'll forgive them the pragmatic keeping the lights on in government services).
As for the employees, well.. in my experience they are the very definition of a jobsworth, and they must have either been very short sighted or not good enough to work in a decent company to still be with Carillion.
Harsh? moi?
And yet the earlier consensus of ph opinion was that construction Companies are always a high risk proposition for employment. t company (we'll forgive them the pragmatic keeping the lights on in government services). As for the employees, well.. in my experience they are the very definition of a jobsworth, and they must have either been very short sighted or not good enough to work in a decent company to still be with Carillion.
Harsh? moi?
brrapp said:
Am I the only one who saw the words 'Philip Green' , 'pension fund', 'company chairman',and 'liquidation' and worked what went wrong?
Luckily I got it wrong and its a different Philip Green.
To that I would add : another CEO rewarded for failure waltzes off into the sunset. About six million quid or thereabouts, unless it was all paid in shares.Luckily I got it wrong and its a different Philip Green.
frankenstein12 said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
fesuvious said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
Yipper said:
Instead, the Brits have just gone "f*ck It, they're just some scummy builders who don't wear a shiny white office shirt like me".
I was thinking you sometimes get unnecessary stick........but now I think I agree with everybody else
The core issue with a lot of these companies is underbidding to win contracts. The company I have worked for for years does mostly public sector service providing and i was once told by one of the companies most senior bid managers he did not care if the pilot we were bidding on lost money as there was the potential to gain a much much larger project off the back of winning the pilot scheme.
He did not seem in the least bit worried about what the companies potential losses could end up being on the project.
I personally thought maybe he had lost his f
king mind. Apparently the thinking is common across all sectors and most businesses. It also does not help when you have chronic mismanagement stopping PMs from being able to claw back from losses to break even or even possibly minor profit by implementing ridiculous modern business management policies and bureaucracy Another issue I have seen within the company I work for who were bought out by a global multi billion pound investment group a few years ago who then decided to implement their own company policies without any considering for how the company actually works or what had made it successful to begin with.
In our case we are a reactive company so we had our own stores department so we could send supplies immediately rather than worrying about trying to get supplies from suppliers. We had a fast track system to get financial approvals now we have a system that can take days to get equipment and approvals.
and it goes on and on and on.
Sadly its simply indicative of what I consider to be modern business management trained people who are utterly ingrained into what they were taught at university and unable to think logically or for themselves.
I have through my work had experience of Carillion and am rather ambivalent. I got the impression they like so many companies are much more interested in paperwork and ticking boxes than in doing any of the work they actually contracted to do.
As a PM I cannot understand this modernist Prince/PMP/Agile methodology whereby you are expected or are taught to waste large amounts of time writing up documentation for how to manage a project or expecting your staff on the project to spend vast amounts of time reading documentation you have created telling them how to do their jobs which they are meant to know how to do themselves and ticking silly paperwork boxes taking away large amounts of time when the actual project work could be being undertaken.
Edited by frankenstein12 on Monday 15th January 20:06
Concerns raised regarding who will be /won’t be paid. The SME subbing under Carillion are stuffed, who is going to pay them, not the Government. All of the people working for these businesses are stuffed. Only those employed for critical public service tasks and maintenance on a daily basis may be ‘fortunate’ to receive and continue to receive thier wages.
Hope that the shower that were the Board and CEO(s) are held to account if it is found that they have in some way been negligent.
Hope that the shower that were the Board and CEO(s) are held to account if it is found that they have in some way been negligent.
^^^^^^^^
Government is in a very different place now, they could get away with the previous scandals as public opinion had not been swayed into moving away from privatisation of public services.
This latest and greatest fall out and it’s yet to a ascertained overall losses throughout businesses could be the tilt moment. Public opinion will not be on the side of Carillion and suggest businesses such as that should be offered another chance under the current T&Cs so to speak
Government is in a very different place now, they could get away with the previous scandals as public opinion had not been swayed into moving away from privatisation of public services.
This latest and greatest fall out and it’s yet to a ascertained overall losses throughout businesses could be the tilt moment. Public opinion will not be on the side of Carillion and suggest businesses such as that should be offered another chance under the current T&Cs so to speak
Usget said:
A poster a few pages back - can't be arsed to work my way backward and quote - said that he worked in public sector procurement and "it is almost impossible not to award contracts to the lowest bidder."
That, in my humble one, is the hit of the whole fruit. Change that system, fire anyone in the civil service who disagrees, and see if the culture improves. And disqualify any company giving more than 30 day terms to its suppliers, too.
Award the contract to the second lowest bidder, or maybe the third lowest bidder. Or perhaps we need more SME Companies offered a chance to bid for smaller contracts, Dunno, not my field.That, in my humble one, is the hit of the whole fruit. Change that system, fire anyone in the civil service who disagrees, and see if the culture improves. And disqualify any company giving more than 30 day terms to its suppliers, too.
defblade said:
doosht said:
Willy Nilly said:
How do people manage to get into positions of responsibility and end up running businesses like this with seemingly no ability to do so?
Yes, this!People who can do a job well (or at least ok) get promoted and promoted until they reach a job where they aren't any good at it, then stay there, continually being no good at it. Obviously they should then be either put back down a rung or moved sideways in something a bit different, but the world's against that...
iphonedyou said:
crankedup said:
Outgoings outpacing income e dry month. Slow income on major projects. = £964 million short .
They are considering a call on shareholders to help bolster the finances. Company has been low balling major projects for years, using cheap labour and outing perfectly good decent companies with thier cheapo substitutes with people on rubbish money. Now it seems the business model is unravelling.
Chickens and roosting coms to mind.
It's 'Carillion'.They are considering a call on shareholders to help bolster the finances. Company has been low balling major projects for years, using cheap labour and outing perfectly good decent companies with thier cheapo substitutes with people on rubbish money. Now it seems the business model is unravelling.
Chickens and roosting coms to mind.
I can't imagine they've been low-balling major projects for the fun of it, either. Chickens and roosting my arse.
I know it’s mean but as you pulled me on a spelling error it’s worthy!
Usget said:
crankedup said:
What ever happened to getting ‘sacked’?
Being "no good at your job" isn't a sackable offence, or half of the UK would be lined up at the job centre. Which would be empty because every fker there would have been sacked as well.CEOs will have performance targets in their contracts, but anyone clever enough to get themselves made CEO will be easily clever enough to take enough firepower and sponsorship into a board meeting to make sure they don't get the blame for failing to hit them. Market conditions, underperforming acquisitions, etc, etc
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