Carrilion in trouble
Discussion
Countdown said:
If they advance payments of invoices to carillion (for work which Carillion hasn't carried out) who is goig to do the work for ffree once Carillion finally DO go belly up?
It's not a cashflow timing issue, it's a lack of profits and finally running out of cash issue.
Why would they been invoicing for Work not yet completed?It's not a cashflow timing issue, it's a lack of profits and finally running out of cash issue.
I’m talking about the facilities management side of things where the vast majority of the costs are labour so Carillion pay out in week 3 yet customer pays you back 30-60-90/120 days end of month.
I am not talking about advancing cash for what’s in the order book.
Another solution is the variable works which sunbird have carried out they invoice the govt instead once the works are complete - that would eliminate Carillion’s margin so cheaper for the taxman (more hassle sure adding suppliers to the govt but it stops the govt getting completed works for free and then the supplier who made it or fitted it gets zero. )
frankenstein12 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
So much so its staggering and immensely infuriating. I am involved with bid writing to projects in civil service for a private company and there is an intermediary company in between and the I know what the customers actually end up paying as opposed to what we bid and the numbers are insane.I cannot understand how anyone could ever agree to contract terms that are so incredibly obviously poor value.
I suspect anyone with any actual sense who has been involved in the private to civils would be able to save literally billions a year if they were allowed to get in and change all the projects.
aeropilot said:
the seemingly never ending round of 'Billy big b
ks' run meetings that amount to nothing more than a game of buzz-word bingo..........
Another favourite was a Carillion meeting where I pointed out certain things that hadn't been done (or done badly) and gaps in information.ks' run meetings that amount to nothing more than a game of buzz-word bingo..........The response was a resigned shrug and "well it's not going to get any better" as this was presumably easier than doing their jobs properly.
Burwood said:
I recall a thread a year or so ago about the military and the money they spend. Someone on here worked for a supplier to the MOD. They quoted stupid pricing such as £15 for a £3 packet of panadol
Another one is lightbulbs at £20a unit which were £1.25 for the supplier to buy.
Yipper said:
Doubt it. They'll sweep it under the carpet.
The top directors and top auditors should really be charged with fraud (or similar) and have their day in court for financial terrorism.
What? What exactly is a "top" director, or auditor? If you mean KPMG (the auditor of Carillion), what on earth makes you think they have been fraudulent? What does "or similar" even mean? "Financial terrorism", WTF?The top directors and top auditors should really be charged with fraud (or similar) and have their day in court for financial terrorism.
Honestly, Yipper, you don't half post some weird stuff.
Have a close look at the published accounts for 2016 (the last available) and tell me why you think KPMG are guilty of "fraud or similar".
Countdown said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Were they not obliged to follow Crown Commercial Service rules? If not I'd be interested to know which Department it was and whether or not you can post a link to it on Contract Finder.https://www.gov.uk/contracts-finder
https://procure22.nhs.uk
BAM225 said:
Burwood said:
I recall a thread a year or so ago about the military and the money they spend. Someone on here worked for a supplier to the MOD. They quoted stupid pricing such as £15 for a £3 packet of panadol
Another one is lightbulbs at £20a unit which were £1.25 for the supplier to buy.
Again another daily mail headline with incorrect information
doosht said:
Willy Nilly said:
How do people manage to get into positions of responsibility and end up running businesses like this with seemingly no ability to do so?
Yes, this!People who can do a job well (or at least ok) get promoted and promoted until they reach a job where they aren't any good at it, then stay there, continually being no good at it. Obviously they should then be either put back down a rung or moved sideways in something a bit different, but the world's against that...
defblade said:
doosht said:
Willy Nilly said:
How do people manage to get into positions of responsibility and end up running businesses like this with seemingly no ability to do so?
Yes, this!People who can do a job well (or at least ok) get promoted and promoted until they reach a job where they aren't any good at it, then stay there, continually being no good at it. Obviously they should then be either put back down a rung or moved sideways in something a bit different, but the world's against that...
t. Welshbeef said:
Countdown said:
If they advance payments of invoices to carillion (for work which Carillion hasn't carried out) who is goig to do the work for ffree once Carillion finally DO go belly up?
It's not a cashflow timing issue, it's a lack of profits and finally running out of cash issue.
Why would they been invoicing for Work not yet completed?It's not a cashflow timing issue, it's a lack of profits and finally running out of cash issue.
I’m talking about the facilities management side of things where the vast majority of the costs are labour so Carillion pay out in week 3 yet customer pays you back 30-60-90/120 days end of month.
In smile terms cash has flown out and it’s taking time to flow back in. However Carillion were using Invoice Factoring to mitigate this. As I said it wasn’t a cash flow issue (if it had been I’m sure the banks would have provided more short term funding) it was a lack of profits issue with no end in sight. The banks could see this which is why they pulled the plug.Welshbeef said:
Another solution is the variable works which sunbird have carried out they invoice the govt instead once the works are complete - that would eliminate Carillion’s margin so cheaper for the taxman (more hassle sure adding suppliers to the govt but it stops the govt getting completed works for free and then the supplier who made it or fitted it gets zero. )
The Govt won’t be getting completed works for free. The contracts will novate as will the residual assets. It would be stupid to set up interim arrangements with subcontractors billing the “Government” when it would be for a short period of time.jules_s said:
Construction tenders are quite a bit different to service though
The problem with the cost/quality evaluation is that the contractors use heavyweight bid consultants who prepare the documents far better than the evaluator's are capable of measuring....which I think is where Tonker is coming from
So the quality side is diminished between bids because the tenders are nigh on identical in content....which then leads you into cost/quality and scoring weighting, a process which can look bent even when it isn't
Then you have the interviews which sometimes are just plain odd. Ask for the delivery team to attend (they do) and the MD feels the need to answer every question not letting anybody else get a word in
Cheers. That makes sense.The problem with the cost/quality evaluation is that the contractors use heavyweight bid consultants who prepare the documents far better than the evaluator's are capable of measuring....which I think is where Tonker is coming from
So the quality side is diminished between bids because the tenders are nigh on identical in content....which then leads you into cost/quality and scoring weighting, a process which can look bent even when it isn't
Then you have the interviews which sometimes are just plain odd. Ask for the delivery team to attend (they do) and the MD feels the need to answer every question not letting anybody else get a word in
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Mrs Digga has worked on projects for PS clients and told me all about this. The other side of the coin and a common occurrence is the one-to-many meeting; the PS will turn up mob-handed, with all sorts of hangers-on, to a meeting that really only needed to be two or three people each side. The reason being a.) it's a jolly and a day out of the office, b.) gives someone with a non-job a justification for existing. The trouble is, it very often serves to obstruct and unnecessarily elongate routine meetings.
defblade said:
doosht said:
Willy Nilly said:
How do people manage to get into positions of responsibility and end up running businesses like this with seemingly no ability to do so?
Yes, this!People who can do a job well (or at least ok) get promoted and promoted until they reach a job where they aren't any good at it, then stay there, continually being no good at it. Obviously they should then be either put back down a rung or moved sideways in something a bit different, but the world's against that...
Digga said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Mrs Digga has worked on projects for PS clients and told me all about this. The other side of the coin and a common occurrence is the one-to-many meeting; the PS will turn up mob-handed, with all sorts of hangers-on, to a meeting that really only needed to be two or three people each side. The reason being a.) it's a jolly and a day out of the office, b.) gives someone with a non-job a justification for existing. The trouble is, it very often serves to obstruct and unnecessarily elongate routine meetings.
Smiler. said:
Digga said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Mrs Digga has worked on projects for PS clients and told me all about this. The other side of the coin and a common occurrence is the one-to-many meeting; the PS will turn up mob-handed, with all sorts of hangers-on, to a meeting that really only needed to be two or three people each side. The reason being a.) it's a jolly and a day out of the office, b.) gives someone with a non-job a justification for existing. The trouble is, it very often serves to obstruct and unnecessarily elongate routine meetings.
The other giveaway is the frequency of meetings; those who have, to steal a phrase from Mickey Flanagan "proper f
k all" to do, will invariably call meetings at the drop of a hat, drag them on far, far longer than they need to run and, schedule them all of the time. Because they have no actual work to do - nothing is ever followed up by them.Add to the the repeated wasted meetings because the client has, yet again, failed to complete the work or provide information that they agreed to, in order for the next stage to begin.
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