Carrilion in trouble
Discussion
Brave Fart said:
crankedup said:
Another swift kick in the b
ks for the small people owed money by Carillion. Shareholders sucked in with the lure of big divi’s, still that’s all part of the game, it’s the small businesses that are hit hardest. Carillion, st from end to end.
Hold on a minute, it's the shareholders who have seen their shares become worthless! Yes there is pain for creditor suppliers, but they could have taken out insurance against default if they were that worried. If you're going to feel sorry for anyone, it should not be investors or businesses that knowingly took risks, it should be the employees who've lost their jobs.ks for the small people owed money by Carillion. Shareholders sucked in with the lure of big divi’s, still that’s all part of the game, it’s the small businesses that are hit hardest. Carillion, st from end to end.Shareholders win some/ lose some.
Employees I mentioned much earlier in the thread and yes I do have sympathy for them.
FN2TypeR said:
crankedup said:
Another swift kick in the bks for the small people owed money by Carillion. Shareholders sucked in with the lure of big divi’s, still that’s all part of the game, it’s the small businesses that are hit hardest. Carillion, st from end to end.
How many of them were sucked in by promises of guaranteed returns?ks for the small people owed money by Carillion. Shareholders sucked in with the lure of big divi’s, still that’s all part of the game, it’s the small businesses that are hit hardest. Carillion, st from end to end.There might be a case to answer if that happened, if not, it's tough titty really isn't it?
Good dividends are always a draw of course for longer term shareholders, any shareholder would have relied upon the Companies books and forecasts before buying in, or should have!
No such thing as promises when it comes to share price and dividends other than the here and now.
Government Select com’ report out today. No surprises involved within the report regarding the Senior Management of the Company. Another SME owner lost 200k after working for Carillion, talks on the BBC news.
Auditors also received negative comment with strong suggestions that the ‘Big Four’ are to cosy within the corporation world and spitting the businesses should be considered.
Auditors also received negative comment with strong suggestions that the ‘Big Four’ are to cosy within the corporation world and spitting the businesses should be considered.
chunder27 said:
Some of the things I have read about this company beggar belief.
Literally bidding on stuff without a hope in hell of having the budget or staff to complete the jobs.
Using money received for one job to bid for other jobs before the original job has even been started!
Massive questions need asking about the way this company was run!
Former Directors and CEO are still in complete denial that they have run the company so badly that it is receiving a roasting concerning virtually all aspects. For a Government Select Committee Member to say publically that the Senior Management were more interested in thier own financial positions than the Company that they were charged with running beggars belief. Literally bidding on stuff without a hope in hell of having the budget or staff to complete the jobs.
Using money received for one job to bid for other jobs before the original job has even been started!
Massive questions need asking about the way this company was run!
Tesco of old accounting style. Hopefully those responsible will face sanctions, throwing up thier arms saying ‘not us’ isn’t enough.
Some of the failings prompting the insolvency may be common within the sector, however it is the sheer scale of the Company that has caused the devastation with thousands of workers and goodness knows how many SME left ‘out of pocket’, latest example to the tune of 200k.
Companies left to grow to big seem to be a growing problem, no pun intended.
Companies left to grow to big seem to be a growing problem, no pun intended.
Blue62 said:
Surely it's time to accept that industry needs more regulation, not less. When businesses are given too much licence this is the result, it's greed and human nature.
Thought this for some years, not just the building industry. One problem is the lack of deterrent for Boards to act with impunity and arrogance, seen several big name examples in recent times. The mess .left behind for others to clear up takes years and yet the perpetrators are allowed to waltz off into the sunset!Welshbeef said:
crankedup said:
Thought this for some years, not just the building industry. One problem is the lack of deterrent for Boards to act with impunity and arrogance, seen several big name examples in recent times. The mess .left behind for others to clear up takes years and yet the perpetrators are allowed to waltz off into the sunset!
I’ve a feeling that they will have bonuses and pensions stripped from them - all the red room staff. However how far back do you go? When did the rot start? Do you go after a red room person who is retired years and years ago and turn them to state pension only and try to take their bonuses away?
That’s the issue - the focus is on the ones where the plates stop spinning.
Perhaps when we have a principle of punishment that follows the reward principles it may focus the minds of the errant or lay Directors. For that solid accountancy and auditing needs to be strongly applied. Simply Boards ignoring the obvious should be punished back to the early warnings being ignored.
Bailouts from failing Companies, as appears to be the case in Carillion accountant, should be punished if the work previously completed was clearly poor in regard to a Companies health.
If we maintain a principle of high rewar for success it must be right for the opposite to be applied?
GT03ROB said:
crankedup said:
Some of the failings prompting the insolvency may be common within the sector, however it is the sheer scale of the Company that has caused the devastation with thousands of workers and goodness knows how many SME left ‘out of pocket’, latest example to the tune of 200k.
Companies left to grow to big seem to be a growing problem, no pun intended.
Quite the contrary Cranked....... most of the UK contractors are too small. They are totally unable to absorb the losses on a single or a few projects. The big boys in the construction contracting sector need to be way bigger than Carillion, to be able to survive & absorb the losses on projects that will be inevitable at some pointCompanies left to grow to big seem to be a growing problem, no pun intended.
My point was that the small man is beholding to the big boys, we know Carillion was treating its subbies very badly regards delaying payments for work completed. Those issues should be outlawed years back.
GT03ROB said:
It's called a performance bond & is issued by a bank. The bank underwrites to a certain value. The bond can be pulled by the client on demand. Its a condition of the contract that one is produced on award. If you are not solvent no bank will give you one. The cost is related to the banks view of your capability & solvency.
Not uncommon, does the UK government or clients require them. No idea but common practice in most parts of the world.
Thanks, I’m still learning at 67 years old. Crazy old Worldout there.Not uncommon, does the UK government or clients require them. No idea but common practice in most parts of the world.
I watched the first ten minutes and have recorded the prog’.
From that ten minutes I concluded that Carillion were a mirror image of RBS. Run by incompetent fools bordering onto fraudsters, arrogant liars only interested in themselves and to hell with every other business involved.
Those at the top of the, can’t call it a business, must be held to account in a meaningful way,imo.
I may get angry when I have watched the recording!
Makes it even worse that when I opened this thread we had illiterate fools posting defensive nonsence about this bunch of, best I shut up now
From that ten minutes I concluded that Carillion were a mirror image of RBS. Run by incompetent fools bordering onto fraudsters, arrogant liars only interested in themselves and to hell with every other business involved.
Those at the top of the, can’t call it a business, must be held to account in a meaningful way,imo.
I may get angry when I have watched the recording!
Makes it even worse that when I opened this thread we had illiterate fools posting defensive nonsence about this bunch of, best I shut up now
Welshbeef said:
crankedup said:
Watched the documentary now. Almost mirror image of RBS, almost bordering on fraud imo. Hope the Board face legal action
One MD is now the board member of Hs2..... FFs. Tesco was another business cooking it’s books flattering it’s numbers for shareholders, albeit on a much lesser scale than Carillion.
I feel for the businesses that have been caught by the Carillion scandal, the small floral landscape business dropping £500,000 and seeing the Carillion Board swan off after self enrichment.
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