How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 2)
Discussion
///ajd said:
A Reversexit
B Brexit but stay in CU and poss SM
Latter seems to be what Eire/NI want.
It’s only a small step to what’s the point, let’s remain. It was all undeliverable b
ks.
Oh right.B Brexit but stay in CU and poss SM
Latter seems to be what Eire/NI want.
It’s only a small step to what’s the point, let’s remain. It was all undeliverable b
ks.A won't happen.
B could I guess but would leave a lot of people unhappy and involve a huge U-turn from the Government.
Robertj21a said:
///ajd said:
A Reversexit
B Brexit but stay in CU and poss SM
Latter seems to be what Eire/NI want.
It’s only a small step to what’s the point, let’s remain. It was all undeliverable bks - In my biased view, naturally there are alternative opinions but I need to be the one that is always right........
Just corrected that for you, it seems you left a bit off.B Brexit but stay in CU and poss SM
Latter seems to be what Eire/NI want.
It’s only a small step to what’s the point, let’s remain. It was all undeliverable b
ks - In my biased view, naturally there are alternative opinions but I need to be the one that is always right........Suggesting that Eire also leave the EU is an option, if you think Eire will ever vote for that. It seems unlikely.
slow_poke said:
Brexit means Brexit, guys.
Brexit.
BRexit, Not UKexit.
BR can exit all they like and leave NI behind.
Let's face it, NI wants to remain within the EU anyway, and the Little Englander Nationalists don't care two stuffs about the place if it means they gain their exit.
You present a rather simplistic view of what people in NI want.Brexit.
BRexit, Not UKexit.
BR can exit all they like and leave NI behind.
Let's face it, NI wants to remain within the EU anyway, and the Little Englander Nationalists don't care two stuffs about the place if it means they gain their exit.
What could possibly go wrong?
///ajd said:
You are more than welcome that bit as soon as you find a convincing solution to the problem you have created. I assume as what you voted for you are smart enough to do so.
Suggesting that Eire also leave the EU is an option, if you think Eire will ever vote for that. It seems unlikely.
Funny that, you’re normally telling us how stupid those who voted for Brexit are!Suggesting that Eire also leave the EU is an option, if you think Eire will ever vote for that. It seems unlikely.
///ajd said:
Robertj21a said:
///ajd said:
A Reversexit
B Brexit but stay in CU and poss SM
Latter seems to be what Eire/NI want.
It’s only a small step to what’s the point, let’s remain. It was all undeliverable bks - In my biased view, naturally there are alternative opinions but I need to be the one that is always right........
Just corrected that for you, it seems you left a bit off.B Brexit but stay in CU and poss SM
Latter seems to be what Eire/NI want.
It’s only a small step to what’s the point, let’s remain. It was all undeliverable b
ks - In my biased view, naturally there are alternative opinions but I need to be the one that is always right........Suggesting that Eire also leave the EU is an option, if you think Eire will ever vote for that. It seems unlikely.
A real pain having voters living outside London/SE .....innit....
Randy Winkman said:
slow_poke said:
Brexit means Brexit, guys.
Brexit.
BRexit, Not UKexit.
BR can exit all they like and leave NI behind.
Let's face it, NI wants to remain within the EU anyway, and the Little Englander Nationalists don't care two stuffs about the place if it means they gain their exit.
You present a rather simplistic view of what people in NI want.Brexit.
BRexit, Not UKexit.
BR can exit all they like and leave NI behind.
Let's face it, NI wants to remain within the EU anyway, and the Little Englander Nationalists don't care two stuffs about the place if it means they gain their exit.
What could possibly go wrong?
Give them what they want. That gives RoI what they want, and makes a friend of them for the UK in the trade negotiation to follow. Gives the English and Welsh a way out of the impasse too. The Scots? Oh well. Can't please everyone all the time. The DUP? f
k them, they're always banging on about majority this, democratic that when it suits them. They can swallow the wishes Parliament now.Robertj21a said:
Nah, us Leavers are all Thickos - don't you remember even that ?
A real pain having voters living outside London/SE .....innit....
It isn't that Leave Voters - or any Voters - are necessarily "thicko's" when they cast a vote that is eventually proven to be a bad decision for a Country, it is simply that many Voters are not qualified to vote in certain circumstances. A real pain having voters living outside London/SE .....innit....
I would argue that while the Referendum was a valid exercise in gauging Public Opinion, it should not have been upheld as a Final Decision on the grounds that Joe Public was largely ignorant of the effects of their vote.
Most Parliamentarians are not qualified either in this particular case.
Which is why while it is all fine and well to gauge general opinion, a Final Decision should only have been taken by MP's following an extensive and in-depth, independent Review panelled by largely neutral or equal representation in terms of prior leanings.
The evidence that the UK was ill-prepared for a Leave Vote is plainly obvious. The notion that it will be "alright in the end of the negotiations" and leaving all to not be an untidy fudge at the last minute is a poor one.
How do we think EU negotiations will go? Badly. The strongest cards are with the EU. They hold the strongest hand by some margin. Certain quarters of the UK establishment are too arrogant to realise this and it will be to their folly - and all those whom they represent.
We are seeing Leavers constantly adjust their expectations as the negotiations unfold - and unravel. We are seeing many of the hard-liners talk about how they expected this all along; pure lies. They are caught up in a bad decision that they helped to deliver by casting a bad vote; one that they were not properly qualified to cast either way.
They are too scared or proud to admit failure.
People who voted Leave are accountable. To say all they had to do was vote and expect the Government to deliver only works if the Voters were largely educated about that which they voted upon to a greater degree so as to be sufficiently informed of the consequences of a Yay or Nay. Most, I'd argue, were not on the basis of what I read here, witness elsewhere etc.
Reversing Brexit is the best option for the UK.
All this stupid talk of "Brexit means Brexit" and "We have voted" is immature ranting borne of a deep-seated ignorance or misplaced pride. It is NOT too late to repair the damage that the Referendum has and will further cause. It CAN be undone and reversed with sufficient Public and Political Will - and it will STILL be Democratic.
Anyway, have a nice Sunday all
I'm off to the beach for a walk. ///ajd said:
A Reversexit
B Brexit but stay in CU and poss SM
Latter seems to be what Eire/NI want.
It’s only a small step to what’s the point, let’s remain. It was all undeliverable bks.
It really not possible to remain in the CU and leave the SM. Turkey membership of the CU is not full participation.B Brexit but stay in CU and poss SM
Latter seems to be what Eire/NI want.
It’s only a small step to what’s the point, let’s remain. It was all undeliverable b
ks.Flexit, leave EU but rejoin EFTA to access the SM, and remain in the CU. Was published 3 years before the referendum. It was offered to the leave campaign as a plan. It was rejected, I suspect because it might mean continued FOML.
It remains the only creditable and workable plan. It does not need to be the ultimate solution but offered a first step which limited the immediate changes and could be delivered in 2 years.
It was the current government who decided the UK must leave the SM and the CU with no idea of a plan.
Remember PPP equals PPP.
Mrr T said:
///ajd said:
A Reversexit
B Brexit but stay in CU and poss SM
Latter seems to be what Eire/NI want.
It’s only a small step to what’s the point, let’s remain. It was all undeliverable bks.
It really not possible to remain in the CU and leave the SM. Turkey membership of the CU is not full participation.B Brexit but stay in CU and poss SM
Latter seems to be what Eire/NI want.
It’s only a small step to what’s the point, let’s remain. It was all undeliverable b
ks.Flexit, leave EU but rejoin EFTA to access the SM, and remain in the CU. Was published 3 years before the referendum. It was offered to the leave campaign as a plan. It was rejected, I suspect because it might mean continued FOML.
It remains the only creditable and workable plan. It does not need to be the ultimate solution but offered a first step which limited the immediate changes and could be delivered in 2 years.
It was the current government who decided the UK must leave the SM and the CU with no idea of a plan.
Remember PPP equals PPP.
It was also ignored, at least officially, by the Government and Civil Service as any open review of it would have helped to put the skids under many of the ballocks claims made by Remain.
FiF said:
Indeed, it, Flexcit, was initially taken on by one of the Leave groups, but then ditched due to protests from UKIPpers, mainly, as it recommended some significant compromises to achieve that first stepping stone stable soft exit, principally I do believe the suggested compromise on continuation of FMOL was very significant driver for that rejection.
It was also ignored, at least officially, by the Government and Civil Service as any open review of it would have helped to put the skids under many of the ballocks claims made by Remain.
The problem I see with Flexcit is that if the first stage were enacted, rejoin EFTA to remain in the EEA - that's all that would ever happen, as there wouldn't be the political will to take it any further.It was also ignored, at least officially, by the Government and Civil Service as any open review of it would have helped to put the skids under many of the ballocks claims made by Remain.
Coolbanana said:
Robertj21a said:
Nah, us Leavers are all Thickos - don't you remember even that ?
A real pain having voters living outside London/SE .....innit....
It isn't that Leave Voters - or any Voters - are necessarily "thicko's" when they cast a vote that is eventually proven to be a bad decision for a Country, it is simply that many Voters are not qualified to vote in certain circumstances. A real pain having voters living outside London/SE .....innit....
I would argue that while the Referendum was a valid exercise in gauging Public Opinion, it should not have been upheld as a Final Decision on the grounds that Joe Public was largely ignorant of the effects of their vote.
Most Parliamentarians are not qualified either in this particular case.
Which is why while it is all fine and well to gauge general opinion, a Final Decision should only have been taken by MP's following an extensive and in-depth, independent Review panelled by largely neutral or equal representation in terms of prior leanings.
The evidence that the UK was ill-prepared for a Leave Vote is plainly obvious. The notion that it will be "alright in the end of the negotiations" and leaving all to not be an untidy fudge at the last minute is a poor one.
How do we think EU negotiations will go? Badly. The strongest cards are with the EU. They hold the strongest hand by some margin. Certain quarters of the UK establishment are too arrogant to realise this and it will be to their folly - and all those whom they represent.
We are seeing Leavers constantly adjust their expectations as the negotiations unfold - and unravel. We are seeing many of the hard-liners talk about how they expected this all along; pure lies. They are caught up in a bad decision that they helped to deliver by casting a bad vote; one that they were not properly qualified to cast either way.
They are too scared or proud to admit failure.
People who voted Leave are accountable. To say all they had to do was vote and expect the Government to deliver only works if the Voters were largely educated about that which they voted upon to a greater degree so as to be sufficiently informed of the consequences of a Yay or Nay. Most, I'd argue, were not on the basis of what I read here, witness elsewhere etc.
Reversing Brexit is the best option for the UK.
All this stupid talk of "Brexit means Brexit" and "We have voted" is immature ranting borne of a deep-seated ignorance or misplaced pride. It is NOT too late to repair the damage that the Referendum has and will further cause. It CAN be undone and reversed with sufficient Public and Political Will - and it will STILL be Democratic.
Anyway, have a nice Sunday all
I'm off to the beach for a walk. It seems that we are still falling into the trap that leaving the EU is solely related to issues involving trade. I understand why everyone on here keeps going on about the various trade issues (and NI/Eire), but those same people appear utterly blinkered to any posting from someone who says that they simply don't wish to be any part of the EU - just simply that. No wish to be involved with 'ever greater union'. No wish to input towards the problems of 27 other countries. No wish to stay in something that is very likely to collapse in due course.
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