How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 2)

[Murph7355]

ORD said:

The cynic in me says young people are no less selfish than old. They just have different interests. They are relaxed about taxation because they pay so little tax, for example.

Exactly this. As they get older, their views and attitudes generally shift quite markedly.

Are we getting older or younger as a people...?

[b2hbm]

Ghibli said:

Although not a link to a poll, my inlaws don't use the internet, voted leave and believed that an extra £350m would go to the NHS, they also read the Express.

Both my parents when alive didn't use the internet, The same applied to my grandparents and many of my remaining aunties and uncles. Getting them to understand what a text is is challenging to say the least.

In contrast my mother is 91 this month. Last year she went out and bought herself an Apple Mac to replace her "slow" PC. Without help from me or anyone else she set it up, figured out the change from Windows to whatever OS Apple was up to then, sorted out her email accounts and just before Christmas set up another router.

She's also got a mobile phone but doesn't send texts - "why ? it's a phone, I can talk to people". In educational terms she has no GCE's or anything deemed essential today but she seems well stocked up with common sense.

And she's not the only one in her circle of friends who do similar things. Just because someone's old doesn't mean they can't think for themselves. Perhaps you need better relatives....

[Eddie Strohacker]

b2hbm said:

In contrast my mother is 91 this month. Last year she went out and bought herself an Apple Mac to replace her "slow" PC. Without help from me or anyone else she set it up, figured out the change from Windows to whatever OS Apple was up to then, sorted out her email accounts and just before Christmas set up another router.

She's also got a mobile phone but doesn't send texts - "why ? it's a phone, I can talk to people". In educational terms she has no GCE's or anything deemed essential today but she seems well stocked up with common sense.

And she's not the only one in her circle of friends who do similar things. Just because someone's old doesn't mean they can't think for themselves. Perhaps you need better relatives....

Maybe he does, but you need better data than your dear old mum & her tech habit. It's a sample of one & therefore wholly unpersuasive.

[anonymous-user]

b2hbm said:

In contrast my mother is 91 this month. Last year she went out and bought herself an Apple Mac to replace her "slow" PC. Without help from me or anyone else she set it up, figured out the change from Windows to whatever OS Apple was up to then, sorted out her email accounts and just before Christmas set up another router.

She's also got a mobile phone but doesn't send texts - "why ? it's a phone, I can talk to people". In educational terms she has no GCE's or anything deemed essential today but she seems well stocked up with common sense.

And she's not the only one in her circle of friends who do similar things. Just because someone's old doesn't mean they can't think for themselves. Perhaps you need better relatives....

Thanks for that, I will show this post to them when I see them next.

I will also let them know that I like them the way they are and that they don't need to compete with your mum if they don't want to....

[don'tbesilly]

barryrs said:

ORD said:

Still no idea what you’re on about. I was talking about averages. The average Leave voter is older (much older) than the average Remain voter.

Sorry, so your saying the average age of a leave voter is 64 and remain 25?

Care to back that up?

ORD back anything up, seriously?

Everything ORD claims is 'ambiguous' apparently according to the PH expert on animal welfare and food hygiene, who's expertise seems all encompassing and is without challenge, as is proven daily if not hourly recently.

I guess the safespace and circlejerk of the Trump fest is no longer proving the attraction it once was and the merry go round of top Trumps on Trumps tweets got boring after 14 odd months.

[ORD]

Such a hard man with your passive aggression. We’re all impressed.

[Murph7355]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Maybe he does, but you need better data than your dear old mum & her tech habit. It's a sample of one & therefore wholly unpersuasive.

Ah, but as anecdotes go he's 2-1 down now

[The Dangerous Elk]

ORD said:

Such a hard man with your passive aggression. We’re all impressed.

Oh dear god, talk about a stretch

[don'tbesilly]

ORD said:

Such a hard man with your passive aggression. We’re all impressed.

Oh dear, bless.

You make claims with nothing to support them, when someone points out that passing off opinion as fact and asks for some verification to support your claims you come back with insults,yet complain bitterly when you get back what you give.

A common trait displayed by many who share your views.

Hey ho.

[Skywalker]

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-eu-withdrawal-bi...

As Sky reports the HoC vote going through - it is the will of Parliament as well.

[ORD]

don'tbesilly said:

Oh dear, bless.

You make claims with nothing to support them, when someone points out that passing off opinion as fact and asks for some verification to support your claims you come back with insults,yet complain bitterly when you get back what you give.

A common trait displayed by many who share your views.

Hey ho.

The claim that I explained carefully, providing reasoning that you chose to ignore? That one?

Either dispute it or don’t. Moaning that someone said it is utterly pointless unless your game is just to avoid any kind of genuine discussion in favour of internet points.

[don'tbesilly]

ORD said:

don'tbesilly said:

Oh dear, bless.

You make claims with nothing to support them, when someone points out that passing off opinion as fact and asks for some verification to support your claims you come back with insults,yet complain bitterly when you get back what you give.

A common trait displayed by many who share your views.

Hey ho.

The claim that I explained carefully, providing reasoning that you chose to ignore? That one?

Either dispute it or don’t. Moaning that someone said it is utterly pointless unless your game is just to avoid any kind of genuine discussion in favour of internet points.

Opine away ORD, but it is nothing other than that.

By the way, I didn't know I could be rewarded with points, how many have I got to date?

[anonymous-user]

Murph7355 said:

Ah, but as anecdotes go he's 2-1 down now

It looks like there are still older people not using the internet although it is on the increase.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/it...

[frisbee]

don'tbesilly said:

Oh dear, bless.

You make claims with nothing to support them, when someone points out that passing off opinion as fact and asks for some verification to support your claims you come back with insults,yet complain bitterly when you get back what you give.

A common trait displayed by many who share your views.

Hey ho.

Claims with nothing to support them....

So what's the NHS getting per week when we leave Europe? It must be up to almost twelfty billion pounds now.

[alfie2244]

frisbee said:

don'tbesilly said:

Oh dear, bless.

You make claims with nothing to support them, when someone points out that passing off opinion as fact and asks for some verification to support your claims you come back with insults,yet complain bitterly when you get back what you give.

A common trait displayed by many who share your views.

Hey ho.

Claims with nothing to support them....

So what's the NHS getting per week when we leave Europe? It must be up to almost twelfty billion pounds now.

Carillions according to Di (nicked from elsewhere )

[don'tbesilly]

frisbee said:

don'tbesilly said:

Oh dear, bless.

You make claims with nothing to support them, when someone points out that passing off opinion as fact and asks for some verification to support your claims you come back with insults,yet complain bitterly when you get back what you give.

A common trait displayed by many who share your views.

Hey ho.

Claims with nothing to support them....

So what's the NHS getting per week when we leave Europe? It must be up to almost twelfty billion pounds now.

I haven't made any claims about the NHS, nor will I. Does that help with a point you were trying to make but have clearly failed.

I can offer an opinion though, and that opinion would be that your figure is not correct.
If you'd said thirteeny billion pounds it would still be a made up figure, as would, and at a guess, any figure you make up.

[frisbee]

don'tbesilly said:

I haven't made any claims about the NHS, nor will I. Does that help with a point you were trying to make but have clearly failed.

I can offer an opinion though, and that opinion would be that your figure is not correct.
If you'd said thirteeny billion pounds it would still be a made up figure, as would, and at a guess, any figure you make up.

Are you seriously suggesting that people would make up numbers about savings for the NHS? I'm shocked, who would do such a thing, national treasure, think of the nurses etc..

[Crackie]

mx5nut said:

The youngsters of today have grown up with the benefits and opportunities of living in an EU country their entire lives, and thanks to the cost of doing so plummeting in that time are likely to have more experience of the world outside of the UK than our generation. The "make Britain great again" nonsense means little to them.

To claim that youngsters of today have more experience of the outside world is nuts mx5nut. The parents of the youngsters you speak of, were they not alive for the period of their children's entire lives? Were they not in the EU themselves for that period, were they so disinterested in their own children's future so as not to be aware of any of the benefits and opportunities you mention.

If you had written that youngsters of today are likely to have better opportunities than our generation had when we were their age I would have agreed. You did not say that though did you? You said today's youngsters "are likely to have more experience of the outside world than our generation" which is typical mx5nut crazy thinking.

[Crackie]

ORD said:

The people that will be 50 in 20 years time will have lived very different lives from those who are 50 now, and they are bound to have a very different outlook on many issues. I would expect, for example, that very many 20-somethings will never be terribly concerned about immigration in the way that their parents and grandparents often are, no matter how old they get. There has been a big cultural shift, at least amongst the well-educated classes.

Not needed ORD
You say you expect very many 20-somethings will never be terribly concerned about immigration............ what experience is that expectation based upon?

Edited by Crackie on Thursday 18th January 10:12

[Crackie]

Zigster said:

Young people do tend to be idealistic, but I would say they tend to become more selfish (rather than pragmatic) as they get older. They don't like change, they don't like trying new things, they want everything to be just like it was when they were young. That's the real driver behind people becoming more conservative as they age, rather than pragmatism.

Agreed that young people tend to be idealistic but I don't agree that they become more selfish "as they get older". That is almost the reverse of my experience.

In the period between having children and retirement most people I know enjoy trying new things. The retired elderly usually have a fixed income which has to last for an uncertain period; they live careful and pragmatic lives but in my experience they are certainly not selfish, they are, more often than not, generous with their meagre resources.