How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 2)

[wc98]

andymadmak said:

Ahh the never ending tactics of the small rump that is the bitter Remainers - sneer, mock, write a mildly insulting caricature of what they hope represents a Brexit voter, exit expressing the lofty view of disinterest - only to return another day to froth and insult.

What I find genuinely amazing is that for this small group, everything is sooooo black and white. I say that the bus is a bit ambiguous, so a rump member posts an entirely different image to show I am being disingenuous! I criticise the use of the wrong amount, I criticise the infamous Farage queue poster, in fact I have criticised any number of things about the Leave campaign. And I am not alone in this. Poster after poster has agreed that not everything was done properly, fairly, honestly or accurately.
But, yea gods, trying to get a rump remainer to even acknowledge
the equally despicable tactics used by Remain, the inaccuracies, the exaggerations, the lies, the smears, and many other things is either dismissed out of hand, or swerved by playing the "whataboutery" card.

Come on guys, taking everything into account, do you not see that Remain played a reasonably strong hand incredibly badly? You had just about all the senior figures in the Government (and most in the other credible political parties) , most of the visual media (not including newspapers), a state sponsored leaflet to every household, 40 years of triumphs, an awful tragedy that was milked by elements on your side, and no end of your own spin and story telling - and yet Remain still came second?

You think it came down to a bus, Farage's poster and Xenophobia?
If you truly believe that then you're in for a shock if there ever were to be a second referendum (I doubt if there will be) because if you go about things in the same way, and rely on your bus outrage being transferred to the rest of the population to secure your majority then you are going to lose and by an even bigger margin.

you post good stuff regularly. that post is a cracker. unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears.

[gooner1]

jjlynn27 said:

Crackie said:

Wow, I Agree with you 100% Eddie .........but you are a hypocrtite.

Don't you just hate it when bad things happen to good lines?

Not when the target of the criticism disputes the spelling,
rather than the accusation.

Besides, it happens to the best of us.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Crackie said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

Funkycoldribena said:

What a bleeding hypocrite.
Stroll on.

Better that than a racist.

Wow, I Agree with you 100% Eddie .........but you are a hypocrtite.

That word is bandied about so often round here, it's effectively meaningless.

Ribena though was specifically invited at least twice, to disown the Jo Marney racist text messages & declined, So, if the cap fits...

[Funkycoldribena]

Eddie Strohacker said:

That word is bandied about so often round here, it's effectively meaningless.

Ribena though was specifically invited at least twice, to disown the Jo Marney racist text messages & declined, So, if the cap fits...

I don't dance to your tune Eddie.
If you think that makes me a racist,I'll still sleep well tonight.

[Zod]

Funkycoldribena said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

That word is bandied about so often round here, it's effectively meaningless.

Ribena though was specifically invited at least twice, to disown the Jo Marney racist text messages & declined, So, if the cap fits...

I don't dance to your tune Eddie.
If you think that makes me a racist,I'll still sleep well tonight.

You never voice your views on anything, other than to show that you don't like liberal viewpoints. People will naturally fill the blank space if you don't. What they fill it with is, I expect, generally not pretty. Up to you to make it prettier, although I suspect it would be similar to the picture most people have made for themselves.

[mx5nut]

Zod said:

You never voice your views on anything, other than to show that you don't like liberal viewpoints. People will naturally fill the blank space if you don't. What they fill it with is, I expect, generally not pretty. Up to you to make it prettier, although I suspect it would be similar to the picture most people have made for themselves.

"Annoying liberals" is seen as a valid political view by some of the angrier posters here.

[ORD]

We have reached 100% anti-knowledge now: the chap above denying that Sterling has taken a beating. It’s still at an absurd low, even after rallying a little.

[Digga]

gooner1 said:

jjlynn27 said:

Correct.

Very good article by DC;

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/dominic-cumm...

(if you exclude Gove adulation)

Thanks Jj, just had a quick skim. Interesting view on Cameron's beliefs re his election victory.

+1 I skim read, but found it highly illuminating. I like many of his ideas of facts being defined after the event - applied both to history and to his more recent experience of his campaign - and of his modesty in his role. I also align with his opinion about the desirability of competing political ideas.

[andymadmak]

jjlynn27 said:

andymadmak said:

Not dishonest, the context of my comments was relating to the bus. I am sorry if that was not clear. You may (or may not) be surprised to know that i had not seen that Liam Fox picture before either. Taken in THAT context though I entirely see your point about that part of the campaign.

I think I get it. When you type leave campaign, you were 'clearly' not referring to leave campaign, but to the message on the bus.


Think I'll call you Chemical Andy.

That's genuinely funny! (unusually for you)

Anyways, I was referring to the message on the bus. But look, I've tried to move that part of the discussion on with my two (I thought fairly reasonable )questions to Eddie. He's either no longer on line or has chosen not to answer. Do you fancy having a go at answering them?

[andymadmak]

To save our Remain friends from having to look back in the thread, would any of you be willing to have a genuine go at these?

andymadmak said:

1 Leaving aside for a moment the real issues with the Brexit campaign, what in your opinion were the unacceptable elements of the Remain campaign?

2. Assuming that the first Referendum had never happened, but armed with the knowledge of how badly Remains tactics worked first time out (yes, I am asking you to be a Time Lord! ) how do you think the Remain campaign should have been /be organised
(I'm couching the question like that because I don't want your responses to be based on attacking what Brexit did in Ref1, rather I want to gauge how Remain could have gone about things differently in your opinion.)

If you can answer those two in a constructive way, I promise that I will also answer them, doing my best to take the position of a Remain voter. (which ironically, I could easily have been right up to the last week of the campaign)

[anonymous-user]

ORD said:

We have reached 100% anti-knowledge now: the chap above denying that Sterling has taken a beating. It’s still at an absurd low, even after rallying a little.

5 year chart against US$, Euro, Yen and HK$

GBP had been falling significantly since 2008 against the USD when it was 2:1, it took a further kick downwards on trend in 2014, mid 2015 saw the £ drop against every currency



1 year chart against US$, Euro, Yen and HK$

Only currency gaining in the last 12 months is the Euro as the Eurozone recovers from a lost decade.

[ORD]

You are surely kidding, right? Or trolling. Unbelievable stuff.

[anonymous-user]

ORD said:

You are surely kidding, right? Or trolling. Unbelievable stuff.

Those are the facts, jack.

Don't you understand charts?

[mx5nut]

ORD said:

We have reached 100% anti-knowledge now: the chap above denying that Sterling has taken a beating. It’s still at an absurd low, even after rallying a little.

Sterling plummeting was held up as one of the positives of Brexit up until recently. I find it hard to keep up with the Brexiteers' delusions.

[anonymous-user]

mx5nut said:

I find it hard to keep up

Truth.

[Funkycoldribena]

Zod said:

You never voice your views on anything, other than to show that you don't like liberal viewpoints. People will naturally fill the blank space if you don't. What they fill it with is, I expect, generally not pretty. Up to you to make it prettier, although I suspect it would be similar to the picture most people have made for themselves.

I've said many times I'm happy with brexit,I'm happy with Trump and I detest Brussels.
I detest Verhofstadt, Lily and general One Worlders,is that not a view? Or is that just racist? I don't like open borders because it causes major problems like Sweden but if you wash up in a dinghy on Brighton beach from Syria generally fleeing for your life and we're the first country you've landed,then no problem.Or is that xenophobic?
It certainly isn't to me and plenty others but it seems to be in the strange world of obsessive labelers here.

[Zod]

jsf said:

Those are the facts, jack.

Don't you understand charts?

GBP is currently approaching USD1.4, the level that has historically been seen as the GBP/USD floor.

[ORD]

jsf said:

ORD said:

You are surely kidding, right? Or trolling. Unbelievable stuff.

Those are the facts, jack.

Don't you understand charts?

On the contrary, you don't seem to understand charts and how they can assist or mislead. Taking a 1-year view of something that is 18 months old is somewhat likely to deceive, don't you think?

[andymadmak]

ORD said:

jsf said:

ORD said:

You are surely kidding, right? Or trolling. Unbelievable stuff.

Those are the facts, jack.

Don't you understand charts?

On the contrary, you don't seem to understand charts and how they can assist or mislead. Taking a 1-year view of something that is 18 months old is somewhat likely to deceive, don't you think?

Um, isn't it a 5 year chart (the top one)?

[FiF]

wc98 said:

andymadmak said:

Ahh the never ending tactics of the small rump that is the bitter Remainers - sneer, mock, write a mildly insulting caricature of what they hope represents a Brexit voter, exit expressing the lofty view of disinterest - only to return another day to froth and insult.

What I find genuinely amazing is that for this small group, everything is sooooo black and white. I say that the bus is a bit ambiguous, so a rump member posts an entirely different image to show I am being disingenuous! I criticise the use of the wrong amount, I criticise the infamous Farage queue poster, in fact I have criticised any number of things about the Leave campaign. And I am not alone in this. Poster after poster has agreed that not everything was done properly, fairly, honestly or accurately.
But, yea gods, trying to get a rump remainer to even acknowledge
the equally despicable tactics used by Remain, the inaccuracies, the exaggerations, the lies, the smears, and many other things is either dismissed out of hand, or swerved by playing the "whataboutery" card.

Come on guys, taking everything into account, do you not see that Remain played a reasonably strong hand incredibly badly? You had just about all the senior figures in the Government (and most in the other credible political parties) , most of the visual media (not including newspapers), a state sponsored leaflet to every household, 40 years of triumphs, an awful tragedy that was milked by elements on your side, and no end of your own spin and story telling - and yet Remain still came second?

You think it came down to a bus, Farage's poster and Xenophobia?
If you truly believe that then you're in for a shock if there ever were to be a second referendum (I doubt if there will be) because if you go about things in the same way, and rely on your bus outrage being transferred to the rest of the population to secure your majority then you are going to lose and by an even bigger margin.

you post good stuff regularly. that post is a cracker. unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears.

Blimey, popped in after just 24 hours and a hitting the nail on the head post. Agreed it will fall on deaf ears. I too was a big critic of Leave tactics and messages, even getting into spats with another Leave voters about the bus etc. Waited and waited for the silver bullet pro Remain argument, it never came and still hasn't.