How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 2)
Discussion
Ghibli said:
I guess some people don't know what they have got until they no longer have it.
For the record, it wasn't me running the remain campaign.
The point was, you started out with an almost embarrassed endorsement of the EU from an historically reluctant membership. No one set out to campaign on the fact the EU was great and we need a whole lot more of it, the Remain strategy ( if there even was one ) was to sell the idea we'd still be the reluctant EU member that's a drag anchor. For the record, it wasn't me running the remain campaign.
If you can't fully endorse what you are selling, don't expect much of a sale.
Deptford Draylons said:
The point was, you started out with an almost embarrassed endorsement of the EU from an historically reluctant membership. No one set out to campaign on the fact the EU was great and we need a whole lot more of it, the Remain strategy ( if there even was one ) was to sell the idea we'd still be the reluctant EU member that's a drag anchor.
If you can't fully endorse what you are selling, don't expect much of a sale.
I'm not selling anything. I have pointed out that the remain campaign couldn't offer anything that we don't already have. If you can't fully endorse what you are selling, don't expect much of a sale.
If that is wrong please explain why.
Deptford Draylons said:
The trouble started for Remain when not a single one of you could come out and praise the EU. You all started by saying the EU needed serious reforms, but that if we all just voted remain, we'd magically fix them after giving the EU endorsement it never had.
This also comes back to what the UK was in the EU , and that was basically a drag anchor desperate to try and stop the movement towards where the EU wanted to go.
When not a single one of you come out and said not only is the current state fabulous for the country, but we need to be even more involved and less of an anchor, then God knows why you expected to win with such a lame endorsement. The blaming of the big red bus is highly comical, but then if you are looking for excuses to vote again, I guess it was going to be the first target.
More importantly, what was there to really sing the praises of in the EU. What is so great about it even now ? The usual answer is just that it makes trade easier - what else........?This also comes back to what the UK was in the EU , and that was basically a drag anchor desperate to try and stop the movement towards where the EU wanted to go.
When not a single one of you come out and said not only is the current state fabulous for the country, but we need to be even more involved and less of an anchor, then God knows why you expected to win with such a lame endorsement. The blaming of the big red bus is highly comical, but then if you are looking for excuses to vote again, I guess it was going to be the first target.
Edited by Robertj21a on Saturday 20th January 11:29
Ghibli said:
Deptford Draylons said:
The point was, you started out with an almost embarrassed endorsement of the EU from an historically reluctant membership. No one set out to campaign on the fact the EU was great and we need a whole lot more of it, the Remain strategy ( if there even was one ) was to sell the idea we'd still be the reluctant EU member that's a drag anchor.
If you can't fully endorse what you are selling, don't expect much of a sale.
I'm not selling anything. I have pointed out that the remain campaign couldn't offer anything that we don't already have. If you can't fully endorse what you are selling, don't expect much of a sale.
If that is wrong please explain why.
andymadmak said:
On the 350m, we should not have been so churlish as to challenge the number at all. Every challenge only served to highlight that the UK was a massive net contributor to the EU, at a time when every aspect of our own public services is under financial pressure. To the man in the street, whether the real number is 350 per week, 250 per week or 195 per week is utterly irrelevant. ..... Its still hundreds of millions per week, and thus billions per year to an institution that (apparently) does not listen to us.
Why pick that fight? We cannot win it. Instead we should have said, "well the number is questionable, but it is true we are a major contributor to the EU, and for good reason... the good reasons being... etc etc.
Quite, and it still amuses me that the Remainers on here still use the Red Bus as some form of ammunition to mock the Leave vote without realising it was an unintentional master stroke by the Leave Campaign. Why pick that fight? We cannot win it. Instead we should have said, "well the number is questionable, but it is true we are a major contributor to the EU, and for good reason... the good reasons being... etc etc.
Interview after interview, debate after debate the Remain airtime was taken up arguing that £350m was really "only" £200m. Coupled with Project Fear, WW3 and the loss of ability to work in Romania this was their only arguments.
CaptainSlow said:
ORD said:
Leave was dead in the water until the last few weeks. It was all about the campaign and he buttons it pressed.
Wrong. Leave was miles ahead prior to the Cox murder when it narrowed considerably. If the murder hadn't happened, Leave would have won with nearer 60%.Even if the result had been 60 40 - There would still be the accusations that it was the bus, poster and that
Farage and his bloody kippers that did it for us.......... I'm not sure if there would ever be a break point where they wouldn't look to blame something for the result they got that they didn't want....
B'stard Child said:
I've already pointed that out with no response
Even if the result had been 60 40 - There would still be the accusations that it was the bus, poster and that Farage and his bloody kippers that did it for us..........
I'm not sure if there would ever be a break point where they wouldn't look to blame something for the result they got that they didn't want....
Remainers have been floundering around ever since the vote, looking for people to blame and trying to rubbish the views of Leavers. They still don't seem to realise that they got away with that massive 48% 'fear' vote - it should have probably been more like 35-40%.Even if the result had been 60 40 - There would still be the accusations that it was the bus, poster and that
Farage and his bloody kippers that did it for us.......... I'm not sure if there would ever be a break point where they wouldn't look to blame something for the result they got that they didn't want....
CaptainSlow said:
Wrong. Leave was miles ahead prior to the Cox murder when it narrowed considerably. If the murder hadn't happened, Leave would have won with nearer 60%.
Not what this states.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
PurpleMoonlight said:
CaptainSlow said:
Wrong. Leave was miles ahead prior to the Cox murder when it narrowed considerably. If the murder hadn't happened, Leave would have won with nearer 60%.
Not what this states.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
What happens if you take the result (unexpected for some) and back model the prior polling to see what the trend really was......
You get this
I’d have liked to see Cameron stay in Downing Street to take the referendum result to Brussels and use it to demand reform to suit the UK agenda - on pain of Article 50.
If he didn’t have the credibility in Brussels to do that then a new leader might have done, but not one who took over No. 10 by default...
It might well not have worked, but it would have shown some guts and would, I think, have put us more on the front foot for any post-Article 50 negotiations.
If he didn’t have the credibility in Brussels to do that then a new leader might have done, but not one who took over No. 10 by default...
It might well not have worked, but it would have shown some guts and would, I think, have put us more on the front foot for any post-Article 50 negotiations.
PurpleMoonlight said:
CaptainSlow said:
Wrong. Leave was miles ahead prior to the Cox murder when it narrowed considerably. If the murder hadn't happened, Leave would have won with nearer 60%.
Not what this states.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
andymadmak said:
That's genuinely funny! (unusually for you) Anyways, I was referring to the message on the bus. But look, I've tried to move that part of the discussion on with my two (I thought fairly reasonable )questions to Eddie. He's either no longer on line or has chosen not to answer. Do you fancy having a go at answering them?
I'll have a gawk at the questions but would imagine that they'd be already answered.
jjlynn27 said:
andymadmak said:
That's genuinely funny! (unusually for you) Anyways, I was referring to the message on the bus. But look, I've tried to move that part of the discussion on with my two (I thought fairly reasonable )questions to Eddie. He's either no longer on line or has chosen not to answer. Do you fancy having a go at answering them?
I'll have a gawk at the questions but would imagine that they'd be already answered.
Play the ball, not the man please......
Mike
jjlynn27 said:
Of course you tried to move that part of the discussion, you've made dishonest claims that were shown to be dishonest by, wait for it, yourself. I do enjoy your posts, as they are exceptionally predictable, filled with 'let's all be adults' and other patronizing garbage. Demonstrable paranoia coupled up with desperate scrambling for support from anywhere you can get it doesn't make them any less funny. Textbook.
I'll have a gawk at the questions but would imagine that they'd be already answered.
ahh, our resident toxic Fin has landed. Look, do yourself a favour and read the last few pages. Lots of really interesting stuff from both sides of the debate... and precious little by way of abuse. Just try and join in nicely eh? I made no dishonest claim. You (as you frequently do) have misconstrued what was said. I'll have a gawk at the questions but would imagine that they'd be already answered.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff