How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 2)
Discussion
Murph7355 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
That rather depends what you value as important.
The UK have voted that sovereignty is more important than the economy.
The EU appears to have effectively chosen the same.
Care to explain how the EU can have "sovereignty"...?The UK have voted that sovereignty is more important than the economy.
The EU appears to have effectively chosen the same.
They need to keep wheeling Tusk out. Any hope of further votes (not that they worry you PM) disappears every time they do. He's an idiot.
We can reconvene after we've been out of the EU for as long as we've been in
Murph7355 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
That rather depends what you value as important.
The UK have voted that sovereignty is more important than the economy.
The EU appears to have effectively chosen the same.
Care to explain how the EU can have "sovereignty"...?The UK have voted that sovereignty is more important than the economy.
The EU appears to have effectively chosen the same.
They need to keep wheeling Tusk out. Any hope of further votes (not that they worry you PM) disappears every time they do. He's an idiot.
We can reconvene after we've been out of the EU for as long as we've been in
PurpleMoonlight said:
Dr Jekyll said:
No, net recipients of the EU budget also get free trade. Some countries outside the EU get free trade and the EU are continually boasting that they will get more FTAs real soon now. Free trade is for mutual benefit, not a generous concession in return for payment.
Is the FTA equivalent to the CU/SM?You are confusing the requirements for membership of the EU, with how the EU decides to spend it's membership fees. Or are you just jealous others receive more than us?
No, I was responding to your comment that free trade is conditional on contributions.
PurpleMoonlight said:
How the EU trades with third countries was known before the referendum was it not? Most are under WTO tariffs.
I fail to understand why people think the EU should give the UK special treatment. We benefited from tariff free trade with the EU by contributing to the club. We are no longer going to do that. Isn't that what people voted for?
I fail to understand why people think the EU should give the UK special treatment. We benefited from tariff free trade with the EU by contributing to the club. We are no longer going to do that. Isn't that what people voted for?
PurpleMoonlight said:
That rather depends what you value as important.
The UK have voted that sovereignty is more important than the economy.
The EU appears to have effectively chosen the same.
By being in the EU any member states give up sovereignty - so I’m confused with your statement above, unless of course you you assume the EU public consider he EU parliament sovereign not their countries parliaments/senates/Dumas The UK have voted that sovereignty is more important than the economy.
The EU appears to have effectively chosen the same.
Murph7355 said:
Care to explain how the EU can have "sovereignty"...?
They need to keep wheeling Tusk out. Any hope of further votes (not that they worry you PM) disappears every time they do. He's an idiot.
Well I did use 'effectively' you will note, but all member states have agreed the EU's negotiating position so they support the maintenance of the EU rules to the possible (probably?) detriment to their economies.They need to keep wheeling Tusk out. Any hope of further votes (not that they worry you PM) disappears every time they do. He's an idiot.
The UK did the same choosing to lease.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Welshbeef said:
You have not grasped at how angry the U.K. population has been with the EU for so so long.
Because they aren't.Only 17.4M potentially are.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Well I did use 'effectively' you will note, but all member states have agreed the EU's negotiating position so they support the maintenance of the EU rules to the possible (probably?) detriment to their economies.
The UK did the same choosing to lease.
Have each country voted on this or just the EMEPs? Have those been discussed at length in all the Dumas etc in all. E European countries so all political sides in each country representing their constituents have their say and then the president of each country goes to the commission with the requirement. The UK did the same choosing to lease.
Let’s say hypothetically a country called oppi is in the EU and guess what all that it makes is sold to the U.K. without that market it has had to date no one buying what they make. What do they tell Barnier?
A deal has to be done - otherwise we too have to leave else we’re broke (now switch oppi to ROI and change the % sold to reflect reality.... the EU are putting ROI in such a position whereby it could utterly destroy their economy in a years time. They pay into the EU who picks up that budget gap (minor point) but they are being forced to reconsider their position either IN or OUT. ).
Welshbeef said:
Have each country voted on this or just the EMEPs? Have those been discussed at length in all the Dumas etc in all. E European countries so all political sides in each country representing their constituents have their say and then the president of each country goes to the commission with the requirement.
Like a referendum you mean?
No, I believe power is delegated to their respective governments and agreed by the respective heads of government at an EU meeting a few weeks ago.
CaptainSlow said:
Rubbish, outside the resident Toxics on here a large number of remain voters were still still pissed off with the EU but believed the "easy to make changes whilst inside" lie.
You could equally argue that a large number of leavers had no beef with the EU but having been given the opportunity to vote in or out they felt compelled to chose one or the other (for the avoidance of doubt, that doesn't include me 
).PurpleMoonlight said:
Well I did use 'effectively' you will note, but all member states have agreed the EU's negotiating position so they support the maintenance of the EU rules to the possible (probably?) detriment to their economies.
The UK did the same choosing to lease.
Let’s see how long the unity lasts when the reality of payments hits them. Glimpses already seen. The UK did the same choosing to lease.
Our side just needs to retain its resolve, especially on payments beyond any transition.
Murph7355 said:
Let’s see how long the unity lasts when the reality of payments hits them. Glimpses already seen.
Our side just needs to retain its resolve, especially on payments beyond any transition.
Plus no deal = we have a buffer of £40billions to help out. Whilst at the same time in so doing will cause huge hikes in budget payments or receipts from EU member states. Our side just needs to retain its resolve, especially on payments beyond any transition.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. This is a BIG worry for them
PurpleMoonlight said:
CaptainSlow said:
Rubbish, outside the resident Toxics on here a large number of remain voters were still still pissed off with the EU but believed the "easy to make changes whilst inside" lie.
You could equally argue that a large number of leavers had no beef with the EU but having been given the opportunity to vote in or out they felt compelled to chose one or the other (for the avoidance of doubt, that doesn't include me ).Welshbeef said:
Murph7355 said:
Let’s see how long the unity lasts when the reality of payments hits them. Glimpses already seen.
Our side just needs to retain its resolve, especially on payments beyond any transition.
Plus no deal = we have a buffer of £40billions to help out. Whilst at the same time in so doing will cause huge hikes in budget payments or receipts from EU member states. Our side just needs to retain its resolve, especially on payments beyond any transition.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. This is a BIG worry for them
PRTVR said:
Welshbeef said:
Murph7355 said:
Let’s see how long the unity lasts when the reality of payments hits them. Glimpses already seen.
Our side just needs to retain its resolve, especially on payments beyond any transition.
Plus no deal = we have a buffer of £40billions to help out. Whilst at the same time in so doing will cause huge hikes in budget payments or receipts from EU member states. Our side just needs to retain its resolve, especially on payments beyond any transition.
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. This is a BIG worry for them
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/923167/irelan...
PRTVR said:
On the BBC news yesterday they were interviewing ministers from different EU countries as they went in and all said they would not pay more, one even said the EU would have to manage on less, I found this ironic as the UK kept pushing for a reduction in EU spending, but got rebuffed, maybe they might end up with one parliament building.
Imagine had the EU listened to some of the grumbling which built in the UK. They could have killed off the movement but nein nein nein - heck they even ripped us off by an extra few billion for the trade we do with hookers and drug dealing “black market” yet oddly Italy has no black market adjustment... now I’m not convinced that is the casePurpleMoonlight said:
Murph7355 said:
Who's blaming anyone?
Leavers are blaming the EU.Remainers are blaming the leavers.
I blame numerous historic UK Governments of all colours misleading and not informing the UK electorate of what they were doing. This was being done all the way to 23 June 2016.
CaptainSlow said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Murph7355 said:
Who's blaming anyone?
Leavers are blaming the EU.Remainers are blaming the leavers.
I blame numerous historic UK Governments of all colours misleading and not informing the UK electorate of what they were doing. This was being done all the way to 23 June 2016.
There's also a hint that, after Brexit (not just the vote) we're meant to feel sympathy for...who exactly?
Anyone who assumed that the UK would never leave the EU made a bad call. Any attempt to pin that on politicians won't work - not just believing that politicians (from any UK Party or the EU) want to help you and will help you, but actually relying on them, is naïve beyond belief. Politicians help themselves and will lie to get elected or appointed, who knew.
Likewise any business that relied on the UK remaining in the EU pariicularly at any point between the Referendum Act and now i.e. a long enough time, and retained a potentially flawed business model, was / is badly run. Their employees have had plenty of time to sniff the air, it's not as though jobs haven't been created year-on-year for years.
Benefits recipients will remain supported, index linked, by all UK Parties.
So who do 'we' feel sorry for?
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