The Irish border

[Dog Star]

55palfers said:

Sorry to hijack but -

Any ideas about the border between Gibraltar and Spain?

A similar situation too perhaps?

Apart from the Spanish being arses and doing their “go slow” tricks again then nothing will change.

The Gib/Spain border is a single point that’s about fifty feet wide. The Spanish already stop a lot of stuff (they’re obsessed with cigarettes). It’s not an open border.

[Ayahuasca]

ClaphamGT3 said:

the alternate option - and one that the more paranoid loyalists are coming to believe is underpinning Dublin & Brussels' position on the border issue - is to cede Northern Ireland to the Republic.

Yep, I can see the DUP agreeing to that, no problem.

[s2art]

slow_poke said:

Finally, finally, it's dawning on those UK powers that little Ireland has a point and a veto and more importantly, they've got 26 mates at their back. Finally, the UK seems to be moving to engage on it.

Sure about that veto? AFAICT Brexit will be QMV matter. for the EU

[Ayahuasca]

s2art said:

slow_poke said:

Finally, finally, it's dawning on those UK powers that little Ireland has a point and a veto and more importantly, they've got 26 mates at their back. Finally, the UK seems to be moving to engage on it.

Sure about that veto? AFAICT Brexit will be QMV matter. for the EU

I think that Fox is trying to outfox the Irish by saying we cannot consider the border until after trade talks commence.

[slow_poke]

s2art said:

slow_poke said:

Finally, finally, it's dawning on those UK powers that little Ireland has a point and a veto and more importantly, they've got 26 mates at their back. Finally, the UK seems to be moving to engage on it.

Sure about that veto? AFAICT Brexit will be QMV matter. for the EU

Yup. QMV on the trade talks, but Ireland has a veto on the preliminary discussions (divorce bill, border, resident's rights) which is why they won't let trade talks commence till they're happy the border is sorted to their satisfaction.

They don't even need to threaten to use the veto. The other 26 have agreed not to proceed till Ireland is satisfied.

[Boosted LS1]

mx5nut said:

Ayahuasca said:

mx5nut said:

Ayahuasca said:

The EU is not entitled to dictate how the UK operates its border, so traffic from Ireland to the UK is up to us, and can be as free as it is right now.

Great. Including traffic from the rest of the EU via Ireland, right?

Only if we want it. It we want to search it all, it is up to us too. The point is, we decide.

Ah, one of those magic borders that only exists to non UK/Irish traffic

There are smooth running electronic borders in other countries. This could work for the UK and I'm sure has been considered. There's no need or desire for a hard border. Lord knows why Eire's getting all uppity, it could explode in their face.

[slow_poke]

Boosted LS1 said:

There are smooth running electronic borders in other countries. This could work for the UK and I'm sure has been considered. There's no need or desire for a hard border. Lord knows why Eire's getting all uppity, it could explode in their face.

Maybe because the last Irish politician to agree a hard border in Ireland got himself a bullet in the head?

[s2art]

slow_poke said:

Boosted LS1 said:

There are smooth running electronic borders in other countries. This could work for the UK and I'm sure has been considered. There's no need or desire for a hard border. Lord knows why Eire's getting all uppity, it could explode in their face.

Maybe because the last Irish politician to agree a hard border in Ireland got himself a bullet in the head?

But who is proposing a hard border? Not the UK.

[mx5nut]

s2art said:

slow_poke said:

Boosted LS1 said:

There are smooth running electronic borders in other countries. This could work for the UK and I'm sure has been considered. There's no need or desire for a hard border. Lord knows why Eire's getting all uppity, it could explode in their face.

Maybe because the last Irish politician to agree a hard border in Ireland got himself a bullet in the head?

But who is proposing a hard border? Not the UK.

The UK is the only party involved that wants to change things from how they work now.

[slow_poke]

s2art said:

slow_poke said:

Boosted LS1 said:

There are smooth running electronic borders in other countries. This could work for the UK and I'm sure has been considered. There's no need or desire for a hard border. Lord knows why Eire's getting all uppity, it could explode in their face.

Maybe because the last Irish politician to agree a hard border in Ireland got himself a bullet in the head?

But who is proposing a hard border? Not the UK.

It is disingenuous to suggest that Brexit by its very nature does not create a hard border.

Nobody's fooled by the UK saying they don't intend to create a hard border as they Brexit, and then blaming RoI/EU when one is consequently created.

[Dr Jekyll]

mx5nut said:

How will the UK stop people and goods from all over the EU wandering over the border and in to the country? Weren't we supposed to be taking back control?

We don't stop people from all over the world coming into the UK. If they want to work, or stay long term, that isn't enforced at the border.

[mx5nut]

Dr Jekyll said:

mx5nut said:

How will the UK stop people and goods from all over the EU wandering over the border and in to the country? Weren't we supposed to be taking back control?

We don't stop people from all over the world coming into the UK. If they want to work, or stay long term, that isn't enforced at the border.

Now, goods.

[Dr Jekyll]

mx5nut said:

Dr Jekyll said:

mx5nut said:

How will the UK stop people and goods from all over the EU wandering over the border and in to the country? Weren't we supposed to be taking back control?

We don't stop people from all over the world coming into the UK. If they want to work, or stay long term, that isn't enforced at the border.

Now, goods.

OMG, we'll get cheap goods without paying tariffs!

[Boosted LS1]

What a load of tosh.

A soft border benefits everybody and that's what will happen. The UK is holding it's nerve with the EU and at the moment the border isn't the main issue, trade is.

Soon, somebody will blink and I hope it's not the UK. If we brexit properly the EU and everybody, including us will have proper talks.

[anonymous-user]

Politicians are making mischief here, creating an issue, of something that can be agreed without histrionics and threats, and trying to lay the 'blame' at the feet of the British. It's not good form really. Am disappointed in the Irish politicians but not surprised that this type of thing is happening.

[ATG]

Marxist high jumper and leading Labour Party brexiteer Kate Hoey eloquently explained the scale of the problem by trying to pretend it didn't exist on the Today Programme this morning in discussion with Irish Senator Neale Richmond.

No one's every mistaken her for a political mastermind, but this morning she went full Trump; unprepared, rambling, incoherent nonsense.

When all else failed, she finally suggested that since the UK and Ireland had joined the EEC together, they should leave together. Err, OK. What an idiot.

The government's ministerial brexiteers are largely second-raters who have never previously been trusted with high office, but at least they weren't stupid enough to accept R4's invite.

[ATG]

This thread seems to show that some of the resident Brexiteers have finally grasped the benefits of a customs union and freedom of movement.

[mx5nut]

ATG said:

This thread seems to show that some of the resident Brexiteers have finally grasped the benefits of a customs union and freedom of movement.

It seems they love the concept - they just want to feel like they're in charge of it.

Who's going to tell them?

[Boosted LS1]

ATG said:

This thread seems to show that some of the resident Brexiteers have finally grasped the benefits of a customs union and freedom of movement.

Err, I don't think so. Free world trade will be much nicer, thank you ;-). I want us out of the customs union and the EU.

Electronic monitoring, anpr and the like can take control of border issues. It works for other countries and could work in this situation.

[Dr Jekyll]

ATG said:

This thread seems to show that some of the resident Brexiteers have finally grasped the benefits of a customs union and freedom of movement.

Yet again a Remainer can't tell the difference between an FTA and a customs union.