The Irish border
Discussion
gothatway said:
Ghibli said:
I would imagine that there will be lorry loads of asylum seekers heading straight through an open border into the UK and lorries backed up for miles trying to get out of the UK. 
Seriously ? Just because they will have got into the EU through its southern border doesn't mean that it will be so easy to get from there to the RoI - or do you think the people smugglers will include the cost of an air ticket from Rome/Athens/wherever to Dublin in their tariff ? Or maybe just pop them on a dinghy like the ones used for crossing the relatively benign Med, but to get from say Brest around the Scillies and up to Cork ?
slow_poke said:
gothatway said:
Ghibli said:
I would imagine that there will be lorry loads of asylum seekers heading straight through an open border into the UK and lorries backed up for miles trying to get out of the UK.
Seriously ? Just because they will have got into the EU through its southern border doesn't mean that it will be so easy to get from there to the RoI - or do you think the people smugglers will include the cost of an air ticket from Rome/Athens/wherever to Dublin in their tariff ? Or maybe just pop them on a dinghy like the ones used for crossing the relatively benign Med, but to get from say Brest around the Scillies and up to Cork ?JuniorD said:
Boris Johnston said travelling across the Northern Irish border could be as easy as travelling between London boroughs
Dr Jekyll said:
According to the Irish PM, the EU has confirmed that no physical checks will be required at the NI border even if there is a no deal Brexit.
So that's it.
Excellent. So if any Brits want to export themselves or their stuff into the EU without any visa or customs nonsense, that's the way to do it!So that's it.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/ne...
What is this international air services agreement signed in 1944? Does this mean the EUs thread to not fly over EU skies is utter lies + then of course what does SU open skies actually offer anyone above that founding treaty in 1944?
What is this international air services agreement signed in 1944? Does this mean the EUs thread to not fly over EU skies is utter lies + then of course what does SU open skies actually offer anyone above that founding treaty in 1944?
And round and round we go.
“Theresa May is to tell the European Union it is time to drop what she feels is their inflexible view on an Irish border solution and “evolve” their position to break the impasse in Brexit talks.
In a speech in Belfast on Friday she is expected to brand the bloc’s calls for regulatory alignment north and south of the border as a “backstop” solution in the event of no deal as “unworkable”, and repeat her assertion that a border down the Irish Sea is unacceptable to any British prime minister.
“The economic and constitutional dislocation of a formal ‘third country’ customs border within our own country is something I will never accept, and I believe no British prime minister could ever accept,” she will say.“
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/19/ther...
“Theresa May is to tell the European Union it is time to drop what she feels is their inflexible view on an Irish border solution and “evolve” their position to break the impasse in Brexit talks.
In a speech in Belfast on Friday she is expected to brand the bloc’s calls for regulatory alignment north and south of the border as a “backstop” solution in the event of no deal as “unworkable”, and repeat her assertion that a border down the Irish Sea is unacceptable to any British prime minister.
“The economic and constitutional dislocation of a formal ‘third country’ customs border within our own country is something I will never accept, and I believe no British prime minister could ever accept,” she will say.“
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/19/ther...
SpeckledJim said:
3. Neither campaign made anything of the border issue. If it was such an obvious deal-breaker, perhaps Remain should have mentioned it, and then they might have won?
This seems to be the latest talking point. It was the losing side's fault we're in this mess because they should have tried harder and avoided it by winning 
SpeckledJim said:
4. RoI is a big boy. Independent and everything. It's not our job to do what they want. It's their job to do what they want.
Some of us desire good relations with our closest friends and neighbours. Others want their own way at any cost.Ghibli said:
psi310398 said:
mx5nut said:
Some of us desire good relations with our closest friends and neighbours. Others want their own way at any cost.
That argument applies both ways. But ultimately if Mr Varadkar really wants to boil the household bunny and chainsaw all the household furniture in half there is little we can do about it. We can, however, bear this behaviour in mind when the Irish Government starts looking to the UK to mitigate the effects of a No Deal Brexit on its citizens.
Ghibli said:
Surely that would apply if the EU were leaving us.
Every nation has the right to self determination. It simply should not be a source of bitterness if a nation decides that it no longer wants to be a part of the EU. You seem to have the idea that the EU should have the mentality of a jilted boyfriend. Do you think that the EU should act in that way?
Should the EU be "difficult" or should it be "reasonable", especially as being reasonable will serve to protect the interests of all the remaining members of the club both economically and politically.
Squawking that "it's the UK that decided to leave, so the UK has to do whatever the EU wants, no matter how damaging that might be to all parties" is akin to telling your ex that you are not emotionally mature enough to handle her leaving you, so you're going to make life as difficult as you can for her, even at considerable cost to yourself. Should the EU be cutting its own nose off to spite its face, just because a member wants to enact the outcome of a democratic process? Or should the EU be taking a pragmatic, mature approach by adopting sensible work arounds to the most basic issues such as those above?
Pretending that on day one following Brexit next year the UK suddenly becomes a security risk, or that its food suddenly becomes a toxic risk, or that its cars may instantly no longer be compliant with EU regs is an ardent Remainer fantasy designed to create fear and uncertainty where, frankly any sensible person will see that there should be none.
No one is suggesting that the UK should have all the rights it had as a member, but pretending that it's impossible to agree sensible policies in respect of things like air travel, the Irish border, flight movement and such like is really very silly. That being said, if the EU REALLY does want to go down that route then I suppose, strictly speaking it can. My view is that if they do try that, they will be damaging themselves and the EU politically far more than they can possibly imagine.
psi310398 said:
Apart from it being patently apparent that the Irish Government is no friend of the UK's, it should still be in its interests to treat the process like a divorce. It doesn't really matter who decided to leave whom. The whole process is smoother and equilibrium restored if both parties strive for good relations and a modus vivendi for the future.
But ultimately if Mr Varadkar really wants to boil the household bunny and chainsaw all the household furniture in half there is little we can do about it. We can, however, bear this behaviour in mind when the Irish Government starts looking to the UK to mitigate the effects of a No Deal Brexit on its citizens.
But ultimately if Mr Varadkar really wants to boil the household bunny and chainsaw all the household furniture in half there is little we can do about it. We can, however, bear this behaviour in mind when the Irish Government starts looking to the UK to mitigate the effects of a No Deal Brexit on its citizens.
psi310398 said:
Apart from it being patently apparent that the Irish Government is no friend of the UK's, it should still be in its interests to treat the process like a divorce. It doesn't really matter who decided to leave whom. The whole process is smoother and equilibrium restored if both parties strive for good relations and a modus vivendi for the future.
But ultimately if Mr Varadkar really wants to boil the household bunny and chainsaw all the household furniture in half there is little we can do about it. We can, however, bear this behaviour in mind when the Irish Government starts looking to the UK to mitigate the effects of a No Deal Brexit on its citizens.
Nicely put!But ultimately if Mr Varadkar really wants to boil the household bunny and chainsaw all the household furniture in half there is little we can do about it. We can, however, bear this behaviour in mind when the Irish Government starts looking to the UK to mitigate the effects of a No Deal Brexit on its citizens.
mx5nut said:
SpeckledJim said:
3. Neither campaign made anything of the border issue. If it was such an obvious deal-breaker, perhaps Remain should have mentioned it, and then they might have won?
This seems to be the latest talking point. It was the losing side's fault we're in this mess because they should have tried harder and avoided it by winning mx5nut said:
SpeckledJim said:
4. RoI is a big boy. Independent and everything. It's not our job to do what they want. It's their job to do what they want.
Some of us desire good relations with our closest friends and neighbours. Others want their own way at any cost.I may be opening myself to ridicule (this PH after all) but what is the difference between the border with the EU in France and the border with the EU in Ireland - English Channel notwithstanding? Why should the Irish get special treatment when all other borders with non-EU states seem to work? It couldn't be that the EU are being bloody minded, could it?
motco said:
I may be opening myself to ridicule (this PH after all) but what is the difference between the border with the EU in France and the border with the EU in Ireland - English Channel notwithstanding? Why should the Irish get special treatment when all other borders with non-EU states seem to work? It couldn't be that the EU are being bloody minded, could it?
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