The Irish border

[Sway]

slow_poke said:

Welshbeef said:

slow_poke said:

Just to spell it out - the CTA covers people travelling - Irish & British nationals only - freely and unhindered between the two countries.

It doesn't cover trade and customs.

The GFA has zilch to do with trade and customs - so GFA not breached.

PH to the rescue again

You're reaching quite a fair bit there 'beefy. The GFA is about no hard border in Ireland. That's one of the strands that sold it to the Irish Nationalist/Republican community. It's the other side coin to the guarantee of no reunification with Ireland without majority consent that the Unionist community bought into.

Where in the GFA does it refer to goods borders?

It doesn't.

The only mentions of free border movements in the GFA relate to the movement of Irish people. Not goods.

[slow_poke]

Sway said:

slow_poke said:

Welshbeef said:

slow_poke said:

Just to spell it out - the CTA covers people travelling - Irish & British nationals only - freely and unhindered between the two countries.

It doesn't cover trade and customs.

The GFA has zilch to do with trade and customs - so GFA not breached.

PH to the rescue again

You're reaching quite a fair bit there 'beefy. The GFA is about no hard border in Ireland. That's one of the strands that sold it to the Irish Nationalist/Republican community. It's the other side coin to the guarantee of no reunification with Ireland without majority consent that the Unionist community bought into.

Where in the GFA does it refer to goods borders?

It doesn't.

The only mentions of free border movements in the GFA relate to the movement of Irish people. Not goods.

Where in the GFA does it mention the CTA?

It doesn't.

That'd be Irish AND British people, the GFA applies equally to all communities.

[Sway]

slow_poke said:

Sway said:

slow_poke said:

Welshbeef said:

slow_poke said:

Just to spell it out - the CTA covers people travelling - Irish & British nationals only - freely and unhindered between the two countries.

It doesn't cover trade and customs.

The GFA has zilch to do with trade and customs - so GFA not breached.

PH to the rescue again

You're reaching quite a fair bit there 'beefy. The GFA is about no hard border in Ireland. That's one of the strands that sold it to the Irish Nationalist/Republican community. It's the other side coin to the guarantee of no reunification with Ireland without majority consent that the Unionist community bought into.

Where in the GFA does it refer to goods borders?

It doesn't.

The only mentions of free border movements in the GFA relate to the movement of Irish people. Not goods.

Where in the GFA does it mention the CTA?

It doesn't.

That'd be Irish AND British people, the GFA applies equally to all communities.

It doesn't refer to the CTA, however it does explicitly refer to both sides maintaining an open border for movement of people - specifically in relation to citizens of RoI and NI.

[Welshbeef]

Sway said:

It doesn't refer to the CTA, however it does explicitly refer to both sides maintaining an open border for movement of people - specifically in relation to citizens of RoI and NI.

In which case if the U.K. leaves the single market and the EU how does the EU aim to sustain the 4 pillars?

Might I make a suggestion they make the border in France instead as one is required there anyway so pointless of having two delays for ROI to travel from ROI to mainland Europe unless they set up new ferry routes direct from ROI to France/Santander

[Sway]

Welshbeef said:

Sway said:

It doesn't refer to the CTA, however it does explicitly refer to both sides maintaining an open border for movement of people - specifically in relation to citizens of RoI and NI.

In which case if the U.K. leaves the single market and the EU how does the EU aim to sustain the 4 pillars?

Might I make a suggestion they make the border in France instead as one is required there anyway so pointless of having two delays for ROI to travel from ROI to mainland Europe unless they set up new ferry routes direct from ROI to France/Santander

What? It has absolutely nothing to do with the EU, nor does it effect the "4 pillars".

You can suggest what you want, frankly that's down to the RoI and it's citizens deciding it also want to leave the eu. That's simply not on the radar, primarily thanks to the euro.

[majordad]

Welshbeef said:

Sway said:

It doesn't refer to the CTA, however it does explicitly refer to both sides maintaining an open border for movement of people - specifically in relation to citizens of RoI and NI.

In which case if the U.K. leaves the single market and the EU how does the EU aim to sustain the 4 pillars?

Might I make a suggestion they make the border in France instead as one is required there anyway so pointless of having two delays for ROI to travel from ROI to mainland Europe unless they set up new ferry routes direct from ROI to France/Santander

We’ve had a ROI Cork to Santander ferry since May 2018.

[Welshbeef]

majordad said:

We’ve had a ROI Cork to Santander ferry since May 2018.

For freight ?

[slow_poke]

Welshbeef said:

majordad said:

We’ve had a ROI Cork to Santander ferry since May 2018.

For freight ?

50-50 freight & passengers, according to Google (portofcork.ie)

[Welshbeef]

slow_poke said:

50-50 freight & passengers, according to Google (portofcork.ie)

That’s superb those freight destined for Europe only no longer have to clog up and pollute U.K. motorways. Hopefully regardless of what happens that route and others expand significantly to remove ALL through passsing vehicles from U.K. roads straight into France/EU.

[Ructions]

Welshbeef said:

That’s superb those freight destined for Europe only no longer have to clog up and pollute U.K. motorways. Hopefully regardless of what happens that route and others expand significantly to remove ALL through passsing vehicles from U.K. roads straight into France/EU.

Should free up the roads for you to get a good blast in the 944 once in a while.

[gothatway]

Welshbeef said:

slow_poke said:

50-50 freight & passengers, according to Google (portofcork.ie)

That’s superb those freight destined for Europe only no longer have to clog up and pollute U.K. motorways.

I doubt that it has ever been used other than for trucks destined for Spain/Portugal.

[soupdragon1]

Ructions said:

Welshbeef said:

That’s superb those freight destined for Europe only no longer have to clog up and pollute U.K. motorways. Hopefully regardless of what happens that route and others expand significantly to remove ALL through passsing vehicles from U.K. roads straight into France/EU.

Should free up the roads for you to get a good blast in the 944 once in a while.

That would be quite significant. Of all the lorries on the road in the UK, most of them have come from Cork and are on their way to France. The future looks much brighter now....clean air, sunny skies, children running through corn fields with wild abandon....bliss

[Ayahuasca]

News today is that 'no deal' will include a border in the Irish Sea, thus dividing the Union and throwing the DUP under the bus.

Why doesn't 'no deal' mean no deal? If they want a border, let the EU impose one.

[Sway]

Ayahuasca said:

News today is that 'no deal' will include a border in the Irish Sea, thus dividing the Union and throwing the DUP under the bus.

Why doesn't 'no deal' mean no deal? If they want a border, let the EU impose one.

If so, that's May done for - and potentially a vote of no confidence on the government too.

[p1stonhead]

Sway said:

Ayahuasca said:

News today is that 'no deal' will include a border in the Irish Sea, thus dividing the Union and throwing the DUP under the bus.

Why doesn't 'no deal' mean no deal? If they want a border, let the EU impose one.

If so, that's May done for - and potentially a vote of no confidence on the government too.

Exactly. She cant throw the DUP under the bus!

[SpeckledJim]

Sway said:

Ayahuasca said:

News today is that 'no deal' will include a border in the Irish Sea, thus dividing the Union and throwing the DUP under the bus.

Why doesn't 'no deal' mean no deal? If they want a border, let the EU impose one.

If so, that's May done for - and potentially a vote of no confidence on the government too.

Agreed. If that's really the case then enough's enough. She seemingly won't stand behind anything she previously reassured us was a 'red line'.

May out, and that'll hopefully put the wind up the EU with the worry that the new guy won't be as malleable as May was.

We should be making more capital of the potential loss of the £39bn + whatever else during transition.

The EU don't seem to have a plan for how to plug the hole, and I think the net contributors have mostly ruled themselves out of increased contributions. Hold their feet to the bloody fire a bit.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Ayahuasca said:

News today is that 'no deal' will include a border in the Irish Sea, thus dividing the Union and throwing the DUP under the bus.

Why doesn't 'no deal' mean no deal? If they want a border, let the EU impose one.

Why would 'no deal' mean a border in the Irish Sea and not the land border between Ireland/NI?

[Sway]

p1stonhead said:

Sway said:

Ayahuasca said:

News today is that 'no deal' will include a border in the Irish Sea, thus dividing the Union and throwing the DUP under the bus.

Why doesn't 'no deal' mean no deal? If they want a border, let the EU impose one.

If so, that's May done for - and potentially a vote of no confidence on the government too.

Exactly. She cant throw the DUP under the bus!

It's not just the DUP. This will also be the tipping point for the 50 odd strong ERG, plus others...

[Sway]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Ayahuasca said:

News today is that 'no deal' will include a border in the Irish Sea, thus dividing the Union and throwing the DUP under the bus.

Why doesn't 'no deal' mean no deal? If they want a border, let the EU impose one.

Why would 'no deal' mean a border in the Irish Sea and not the land border between Ireland/NI?

Because it would appear this is what May has offered...

[loafer123]

Sway said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Ayahuasca said:

News today is that 'no deal' will include a border in the Irish Sea, thus dividing the Union and throwing the DUP under the bus.

Why doesn't 'no deal' mean no deal? If they want a border, let the EU impose one.

Why would 'no deal' mean a border in the Irish Sea and not the land border between Ireland/NI?

Because it would appear this is what May has offered...

I think you may be confused, although not without reason;

"No deal" means a border between RoI and NI.

The "backstop" or possible "backstop to the backstop" may well involve a border down the Irish Sea, if the rumours are to be believed.