Chris Frome potentially in serious trouble
Discussion
Digga said:
All of which chemically enhanced nonsense confirms why the only true cycling sport of heroes is downhill mountain biking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilqCro2MVU
That's not cycling, it's just gravity.counterofbeans said:
Digga said:
All of which chemically enhanced nonsense confirms why the only true cycling sport of heroes is downhill mountain biking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilqCro2MVU
That's not cycling, it's just gravity.dave_s13 said:
He's no Fred Dibnah though is he.
Wrt asthma inhalers; does more make you work harder or do they just facilitate your normal, potential output?
No, and if you go over the normal dose it gives you the shakes, headaches, light-headedness etc.Wrt asthma inhalers; does more make you work harder or do they just facilitate your normal, potential output?
Source: have exercise induced asthma and use the same drug
dave_s13 said:
He's no Fred Dibnah though is he.
Wrt asthma inhalers; does more make you work harder or do they just facilitate your normal, potential output?
Wrt asthma inhalers; does more make you work harder or do they just facilitate your normal, potential output?
- if* you are asthmatic it's like breathing with a cloth over your mouth, you have to work harder for the same speed. If I start wheezing my heart rate can be anything up to 20bpm higher for the same speed.
WestyCarl said:
Biker 1 said:
Professional cycling is a sick joke. No idea why anybody would follow this 'sport'. Rotten to the core.
I think that probably applies to most sport, even the OlympicsI was a keen follower of cycling in general and the Tours in particular, the best being the TdF. I was taken in by Armstrong, although my suspicions were there well before the revelations, which went for everyone I assume.
My main sport is one that requires much effort and rewards bulk to an extent. Since 1996 I've seen the average weights of players, even low down the leagues as well as the top, increasing, almost year on year. I'm left with the conclusion that most sports pay lip service to drug testing. Nobody, it seems, really cares. As long as the sport is healthy, ie the money is coming in, then the health of individuals is of no consequence.
Who can you trust?
I liked LeMond. His wins were the stuff of legend. Fighting off his team as well as his team mate for his first TdF win, then seven seconds for his second, the most exciting finish of any cycling race I've seen, and his third coming from behind, despite team orders it seemed. He comments on Armstrong were attacked by those who must have known what Armstrong was up to.
I don't watch Tours any more.
I remember reading a report - possibly in New Scientist - which stated that the unhealthiest sport was cycling as participants lived healthy lives for such a short time after it. Enlarged hearts and other organs were highlighted but when cause was mentioned all sorts of caveats were brought up, this pre Armstrong scandal.
One other things stays in my mind is that cheer leading had one of the highest rates of serious injuries, such as bone breaks. For the picture editor it was probably the highlight of his week.
But for organisations that turn a blind eye to drugs abuse; a plague o' all your houses.
Greg66 said:
This is from the UCI's site (http://www.uci.ch/clean-sport/therapeutic-use-exemptions/):
"Inhaled salbutamol (maximum 1600 micrograms over 24 hours in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms over 12 hours starting from any dose), inhaled formoterol (maximum delivered dose 54 micrograms over 24 hours) and inhaled salmeterol (maximum delivered dose of 200 micrograms over 24 hours) are not prohibited and therefore do not require a TUE.
For inhaled salbutamol, you must obtain a TUE if you need to take more than 1600 micrograms over 24 hours in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms over 12 hours starting from any dose.
You must obtain a TUE if you need to inhale more than 54 ?g per day of formoterol.
You must obtain a TUE if you need to inhale more than 200 ?g per day of salmeterol.
You must obtain a TUE if you take salmeterol, salbutamol and/or formoterol by any other routes of administration "
So by the look of it he needs a TUE if he has to inhale more than 1600 micrograms per 24hrs or is he uses a different delivery method. Not sure how that fits into the UCI's press release that's upthread.
+ other stuff
Interesting, I didn't realise there were limits where TUE's were required for asthma drugs, but as I'm not competing I have an excuse for not knowing all the rules "Inhaled salbutamol (maximum 1600 micrograms over 24 hours in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms over 12 hours starting from any dose), inhaled formoterol (maximum delivered dose 54 micrograms over 24 hours) and inhaled salmeterol (maximum delivered dose of 200 micrograms over 24 hours) are not prohibited and therefore do not require a TUE.
For inhaled salbutamol, you must obtain a TUE if you need to take more than 1600 micrograms over 24 hours in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms over 12 hours starting from any dose.
You must obtain a TUE if you need to inhale more than 54 ?g per day of formoterol.
You must obtain a TUE if you need to inhale more than 200 ?g per day of salmeterol.
You must obtain a TUE if you take salmeterol, salbutamol and/or formoterol by any other routes of administration "
So by the look of it he needs a TUE if he has to inhale more than 1600 micrograms per 24hrs or is he uses a different delivery method. Not sure how that fits into the UCI's press release that's upthread.
+ other stuff
If that is the case and the reports I've read state the treatment was done on the advice of the team doctor then I wonder why he didn't have a TUE issued ? The team doctor must surely know Froome's normal uptake and the probable effects of an increased dosage on someone of his bodyweight, so it's puzzling as to why something wasn't issued. The guy is the team leader and was all set to win a major race where he's certain to be drug tested, so it's not the sort of thing you'd take chances on.
Derek Smith said:
.........
But for organisations that turn a blind eye to drugs abuse; a plague o' all your houses.
Is the fact that it was the organisations anti-doping team which raised the concern about Frome's use of Salbutamol pretty solid evidence that they are not tuning a blind eye to it. If they were, there would be no tests and no failed results... But for organisations that turn a blind eye to drugs abuse; a plague o' all your houses.
OpulentBob said:
...Filthy sport, bent to the core.
Why do all these people who would otherwise class themselves as "decent" - or even worse, think that they are superior to everyone else (see cries of "fatty!" on the cycling vs driving threads) - worship at the alter of drugs cheats?
Filthy sport?Why do all these people who would otherwise class themselves as "decent" - or even worse, think that they are superior to everyone else (see cries of "fatty!" on the cycling vs driving threads) - worship at the alter of drugs cheats?
Can't argue otherwise, sadly. But then PEDs are rife in other sports too. Rugby Union, Association Football, Athletics to name just a few. I don't, personally, believe that "Sir Mo" is whiter than white. I've seen no evidence to suggest otherwise, but that doesn't change that 'iffy feeling' I have about many top sports people.
I love cycling. I really do. But I'm not naive enough to belief that these hundred (+) strong pelotons are steaming along at 30 mph fuelled only by flapjacks and aerodynamic advantage. It means that I always watch the grand tours with a healthy dose of scepticism. But then I sometimes wonder if there are snooker, darts, and tennis players deliberately throwing matches. Cricket is a farce too.
So "worshiping at the altar of drugs cheats"?
Nope. Not for me. But then again I don't worship at the altar of premier league football, nor do I bow and scrape to supposed celebrities of any kind. They all breath air, and s
t through holes in their arses, just like everyone else. I don't think I'm "superior to everyone else" just because I ride bicycles. But I've had drivers tell me they're superior to me because I should "work harder and buy a car" and "pay some bloody road tax" instead of riding (when riding is a choice I make, not something I do because I can't afford a car). As for "cries of Fatty!" on cyclists v drivers threads? Well, if the hard of thinking would drop the faux outrage at "Lycra louts/Lycra loons/helmet cam vigilantes" then no-one would feel the need to package up "all bloody drivers" in a neat, easy to abuse box either.Oh, and to address the issue of 'exercise induced asthma'? I was diagnosed with that while in the army. For a while I used Asthma medication before, during, and after intensive exercise. In the end, other injuries and an illness meant I no longer had to train as hard, and so I stopped "using". Just recently, as a result of this cold weather we've been having, and due to a drop in my general fitness, I've experienced symptoms again as I try hard to work myself back to fitness with an eye on MTB racing next year. So I'm actively considering making a GP appointment to see if they can help. The whole idea of TUEs is to level the playing field for athletes suffering genuine disadvantage from medical conditions. Sadly, as we have repeatedly seen in cycling, too many "team doctors" (in lots of sports) are willing to mould the rules to suit the needs of their athletes, well in excess of the original intention of the exemptions.
If Froome ends up falling foul of the rules I'll be disappointed. But not because I have any allegiance to Froome, or Team Sky. Not even particularly to Team GB at the Olympics because I see professional sports people as inherently selfish people who don't "do it" for the team, or for the UK plc. I think they HAVE to be selfish to invest as much time as they do to winning, and so I think that most are doing it for themselves. No, if Froome's results are discounted it's highly likely that we'll end up with another 4 years or Tour de France records with "No Winner" to go along with the 7 years from 1999 to 2005, another two years for which the results table state "No Third Place", and the farcical 2009 and 2010 races where Armstrong, Astarloza,and Contador were stripped of their results after positive tests and doping infringements. Ironically, some might say, elevating Wiggins to third place in 2009. And Contador won the race in 2009 only to be stripped of the 2010 title after his positive test for Clenbuterol use. None of this is new either. Use of Amphetamines and copious other stimulants was rife in the sport since goodness knows when. Tom Simpson died on Mount Ventoux in 1967, doped up on amphetamines and alcohol. But back then athletes didn't have to pee in a bottle at doping control after a race, so many of the riders were on the same stuff.
I'm not defending the dopers at all, but you can see why they might be tempted to use anything that might take some of the load off when you look at how physically grueling a grand tour is. Especially if they suspect that their rivals are taking pharmaceutical steps to increase their chances of victory.
TL;DR? If Froome "goes down" for doping infringements, I won't be sad for him, but sad for the sport. It needs to clean up it's act, to be frank, and be more transparent.
Too Drunk to Funk said:
Given cycling has been overrun by druggies, how come it's still so dull? The Tour de France is hardly Woodstock on wheels.
Party on Chris!
Party on Brad!
Sir Wiggins has been known to 'disappear' for a few months a number of times to go blow off steam and get sParty on Chris!
Party on Brad!
t faced at gigs... gooner1 said:
Many elite atheletes suffer from asthma symptoms, apparently
high intensity exercise can induce them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42264758
You decide what's more likely.
yellowjack said:
I've seen no evidence to suggest otherwise, but that doesn't change that 'iffy feeling' I have about many top sports people.
Me too, I always get suspicious when people who later fail drug tests were roundly trounced by "clean" athletes.Maybe they are indeed clean but it doesn't pass the sniff test for me!
People put too much stock in the testing too, to be honest. Remember Armstrong, arguable the most prolific doper of the generation, never actually failed a single one.
roachcoach said:
People put too much stock in the testing too, to be honest. Remember Armstrong, arguable the most prolific doper of the generation, never actually failed a single one.
We're in an era where you'd have to be bloody stupid, or make a mistake, to fail a test. Quite simply, they're not doping anabolic steroids any more - they're injecting their own blood, or micro dosing at a level that simply isn't detectable against 'normal' levels of a natural substance. Or, as allegedly per here, doing it under the cover of treatment for a diagnosed illness. Or the other one in some sports - put promising youngsters into a 'development' squad, that doesn't compete therefore isn't tested. Dope them to the gills, get the gains, give them enough time for piss and bloods to be clear - whilst still retaining the muscle mass... Hello rugby, how's your youth squad doing? The dopers have access to the same tests as the authorities...
Hence why cycling has put so much focus on year round testing, aligned with the training, nutritional and rest schedules, to devise a statistical biopassport.
Sway said:
mcelliott said:
Sway said:
Whilst I completely understand, and to an extent, agree with your idea - there's already a statue on Alpe D'Huez showing the repercussions...
Eh?Then add in certain countries for whom thier citizens do not control their own bodies - informed consent is impossible to achieve in a 'doping allowed' regime.
julian64 said:
Yep or people who don't have asthma will noticed an increase in heart rate and breathing ability when they take asthma drugs
You decide what's more likely.
You decide what's more likely.
You've not made yourself very clear, but if you're trying to say "an inhaler used by a non-asthmatic will be performance enhancing", you would be completely wrong.
dangerousB said:
julian64 said:
Yep or people who don't have asthma will noticed an increase in heart rate and breathing ability when they take asthma drugs
You decide what's more likely.
You decide what's more likely.
You've not made yourself very clear, but if you're trying to say "an inhaler used by a non-asthmatic will be performance enhancing", you would be completely wrong.
The Surveyor said:
Derek Smith said:
.........
But for organisations that turn a blind eye to drugs abuse; a plague o' all your houses.
Is the fact that it was the organisations anti-doping team which raised the concern about Frome's use of Salbutamol pretty solid evidence that they are not tuning a blind eye to it. If they were, there would be no tests and no failed results... But for organisations that turn a blind eye to drugs abuse; a plague o' all your houses.
By the rolling eyes I assume you believe things have changed. Best of luck with that one, mate.
They don't turn a blind eye to tests, everything else is fine. As a previous poster said, the riders have to be a bit lackadaisical in their systems to get caught. I know a very big sport where drugs tests were notified to clubs.
There's money in sport, or at the very least gain. The people who make money from it don't want to strangle the supply chain any more than those who take cocaine. They pose, they posture and they turn a blind eye, or maybe just roll them, but the pie they have their fingers in must not be threatened.
'Look at us, we've got a big name in the cross-hairs. We're winning the war on drug abuse.' Fools some people, but the drugs are being taken.
Where there's money there's corruption. There always has been, there always will be. For the major sports there's big money. Nothing must threaten income. It is more profitable to establish slack testing systems that to eradicate drugs.
We have clean athletes using doctors and medical facilities that have been implicated in supplying and administering drugs to sports stars.
Whilst the oft-repeated 500-600 drugs tests that Armstrong claimed to have had and passed was well shy of the real number, possibly 200 or so, it still leaves the 200 or so that he passed yet in that time others failed.
Still, you can tell how much they wanted to beat drugs cheats by the way they supported Greg Lemond in his campaign to rid the sport of such cheats.
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