Another prove your innocence case
Discussion
saaby93 said:
What about this type of thing
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42577...
I'm really not comfortable with this kind of reaction. Innocent until proven guilty seems to go completely out of the window, and instead we have trial by media. Same for Kevin Spacey. Fair enough there's no smoke without fire, compelling evidence in the form of numerous witnesses etc, but until the accused has been found guilty of something (or even charged), they're having their reputations wrecked, and their livelihoods destroyed.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42577...
And all these rape cases falling apart due to withheld evidence, well it can't be coincidence can it. Maybe the first one you could put down to bad luck/police incompetence, but there's obviously something seriously broken in the system with so many happening.
I know of a bloke, friend of a friend of a friend, that's been in prison for 2 years for sexual assault on a minor. It was his step daughter, who he's raised from a young age as his own. Only going off what I've heard from his family, but the extent of his crime was tickling her and putting his hand on her knee to get her attention, all sounds like normal sort of physical contact between father and daughter. Somehow his step daughter (think she has some mental health problems) later mentioned this to her peers as unwanted physical contact and next thing it's in the hands of the CPS/Police who convinced the girl that it was inappropriate and that she just had to give evidence that there had been physical contact.
At the other end of the scale, a female friend was gang raped by at least 3 men recently. Police have DNA (recovered from her), CCTV of them taking her back to the scene, and arrested one in the street afterwards (while he was still assaulting her). Unfortunately the one they arrested doesn't match any of the DNA they found, and it isn't on the database either. And that's it, no further action. Despite the fact that it's a small town, they're part of a tiny asian community (but not from the country that first springs to most people's minds), and manage/work at one of two restaurants. It wouldn't take more than a basic bit of detective work to identify/round them up. But police aren't interested in pursuing it, which seems surprising given the nature of the attack and that there is zero question over lack of consent, compared to a lot of the current cases in the media where the case revolves around it.
andy_s said:
I dread to think of the effect this could have on genuine cases going forward 
Some may remember a good few pages back I mentioned briefly what it's like to be falsely accused.
Well I just read a report on the lass who accused me of rape. She's been done for crying rape to a social worker saying that the person sexually assaulted her kid.
She was given a 160 hours community service. To say I'm f
king livid is an understatement.
I'd ask if people would not take it upon themselves to find and post any link of the accused I have no legal implications it would have to you or myself or the website.
The abuse, I've had the threats, the way it destroyed my life and left me with mental issues and she gets fking community service.
I only post this as I had a few pm's on here from people who were very kind and who had dealt with stuff like that themselves. I can understand why so many people accused of this don't want to shout out about the injustice as you always face some degree of predijuice.
I am all for police investigating these allegations but it has to stop being so bloody one sided its unreal.
Well I just read a report on the lass who accused me of rape. She's been done for crying rape to a social worker saying that the person sexually assaulted her kid.
She was given a 160 hours community service. To say I'm f
king livid is an understatement.I'd ask if people would not take it upon themselves to find and post any link of the accused I have no legal implications it would have to you or myself or the website.
The abuse, I've had the threats, the way it destroyed my life and left me with mental issues and she gets f
king community service.I only post this as I had a few pm's on here from people who were very kind and who had dealt with stuff like that themselves. I can understand why so many people accused of this don't want to shout out about the injustice as you always face some degree of predijuice.
I am all for police investigating these allegations but it has to stop being so bloody one sided its unreal.
irocfan said:
andy_s said:
I dread to think of the effect this could have on genuine cases going forward andy_s said:
irocfan said:
andy_s said:
I dread to think of the effect this could have on genuine cases going forward irocfan said:
andy_s said:
I dread to think of the effect this could have on genuine cases going forward “The case was reviewed and it was concluded there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction.”
Not - the case was dropped because it was deemed there was no case to answer.
Using wording like the above makes it sound as if the police and CPS are only interested in securing a convictions (not delivering justice). It also makes it sound like the guy still did something - but that there was insufficient evidence or something similar.
and another...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/18/oxford-...
what is particularly frightening to me (as a non-lawyer) is:
"... Alison Saunders, the director of public prosecutions, raised eyebrows when she said photographs and social media accounts do not necessarily need to be fully checked in rape cases.
She insisted she does not believe anyone is in jail after being wrongly convicted because of failures to disclose evidence.
She told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “The police obligation is to pursue all reasonable lines of enquiry. That doesn’t mean going into every single avenue of your life...”
surely everything needs to be checked for one of the most serious crimes there is?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/18/oxford-...
what is particularly frightening to me (as a non-lawyer) is:
"... Alison Saunders, the director of public prosecutions, raised eyebrows when she said photographs and social media accounts do not necessarily need to be fully checked in rape cases.
She insisted she does not believe anyone is in jail after being wrongly convicted because of failures to disclose evidence.
She told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “The police obligation is to pursue all reasonable lines of enquiry. That doesn’t mean going into every single avenue of your life...”
surely everything needs to be checked for one of the most serious crimes there is?
All these cases seem to involve young men, usually students, and (presumably) young woman. What is it about that generation that makes women so keen to report sex as rape...when social media shows couples cuddling etc but then the woman pretty much has to lie to cops(I cant say that men are keen to rape, as these guys are not rapists.) Buyers remorse? Shame at just shagging some random guy right away? Does a range of hard p0rn available on their smart phone at a moments notice from an early age change behaviour?
You dont(so far) see a 50 year old have these problems, maybe older rapists just set out to do stuff, but conversely the younger generation put everything on social media, so that is what helps the guys in the end!
BTW Im not saying all young guys that get charged arent rapey, just that the ones freed by disclosure of social media by the CPS at the last minute seem to be of that age.
You dont(so far) see a 50 year old have these problems, maybe older rapists just set out to do stuff, but conversely the younger generation put everything on social media, so that is what helps the guys in the end!
BTW Im not saying all young guys that get charged arent rapey, just that the ones freed by disclosure of social media by the CPS at the last minute seem to be of that age.
Views on what is, or isn't rape appear to have changed dramatically. Take a look at how campaigns have changed.
Rape used to be portrayed as a violent / threatening act (public information used to be broadly focused around this).
To 'no means no' (where if one person says no, and the other continues it is classed as rape).
To 'yes means yes' (where verbal consent has to be given)
To 'enthusiastic consent' (where yes can mean no, even retrospectively)
I think some of the rise will be due to opinion spreading very quickly these days. Ie. someone has a negative experience and posts something on the internet which escalates from there (aided by the police looking to secure convictions / the press #meetoo hysteria). Or just used purely as a punishment.
(Before someone accuses me - I'm commenting on fake allegations. I'm not denying rape happens)
Rape used to be portrayed as a violent / threatening act (public information used to be broadly focused around this).
To 'no means no' (where if one person says no, and the other continues it is classed as rape).
To 'yes means yes' (where verbal consent has to be given)
To 'enthusiastic consent' (where yes can mean no, even retrospectively)
I think some of the rise will be due to opinion spreading very quickly these days. Ie. someone has a negative experience and posts something on the internet which escalates from there (aided by the police looking to secure convictions / the press #meetoo hysteria). Or just used purely as a punishment.
(Before someone accuses me - I'm commenting on fake allegations. I'm not denying rape happens)
kowalski655 said:
All these cases seem to involve young men, usually students, and (presumably) young woman. What is it about that generation that makes women so keen to report sex as rape...when social media shows couples cuddling etc but then the woman pretty much has to lie to cops(I cant say that men are keen to rape, as these guys are not rapists.) Buyers remorse? Shame at just shagging some random guy right away? Does a range of hard p0rn available on their smart phone at a moments notice from an early age change behaviour?
You dont(so far) see a 50 year old have these problems, maybe older rapists just set out to do stuff, but conversely the younger generation put everything on social media, so that is what helps the guys in the end!
BTW Im not saying all young guys that get charged arent rapey, just that the ones freed by disclosure of social media by the CPS at the last minute seem to be of that age.
I'm just wondering if it is because the 20'-30's are part of the generation now where there has to always be someone to blame, no one is accountable for their own actions anymore, plus people of that generation appear alot more immature as they have had their hand held alot more, up to adult hood; young girl gets a bit drunk, loses her inhibitions a bit (I'm not talking absolutely out of it, just a bit merry), flirts with some guy, things progress and they end up at his place, it is all consensual, the next morning she is "oh my god what did I do?" so instead of just sucking it up as a mistake and moving on, she has to apportion blame to someone else for her regret.You dont(so far) see a 50 year old have these problems, maybe older rapists just set out to do stuff, but conversely the younger generation put everything on social media, so that is what helps the guys in the end!
BTW Im not saying all young guys that get charged arent rapey, just that the ones freed by disclosure of social media by the CPS at the last minute seem to be of that age.
On a different note to my post above,
One of the girls I was living with at uni was having to go to court to give evidence against her friend who had made a rape accusation. It appeared that she had a thing for the guy for a long time, and a drunken night out ended in a one night stand. Him not wanting to get into a relationship after brought on the accusation of rape. It appeared to be entitlement on her part, as she didn't get what she wanted using sex, so used the threat of the police to get what she wanted. The threat didn't work and was turned into punishment , which ended after 6 months when the case against him was dropped.
One of the girls I was living with at uni was having to go to court to give evidence against her friend who had made a rape accusation. It appeared that she had a thing for the guy for a long time, and a drunken night out ended in a one night stand. Him not wanting to get into a relationship after brought on the accusation of rape. It appeared to be entitlement on her part, as she didn't get what she wanted using sex, so used the threat of the police to get what she wanted. The threat didn't work and was turned into punishment , which ended after 6 months when the case against him was dropped.
Donbot said:
On a different note to my post above,
One of the girls I was living with at uni was having to go to court to give evidence against her friend who had made a rape accusation. It appeared that she had a thing for the guy for a long time, and a drunken night out ended in a one night stand. Him not wanting to get into a relationship after brought on the accusation of rape. It appeared to be entitlement on her part, as she didn't get what she wanted using sex, so used the threat of the police to get what she wanted. The threat didn't work and was turned into punishment , which ended after 6 months when the case against him was dropped.
Princess who is used to getting her own way, however in this instance didn't so stamps her feet and has a tantrum!One of the girls I was living with at uni was having to go to court to give evidence against her friend who had made a rape accusation. It appeared that she had a thing for the guy for a long time, and a drunken night out ended in a one night stand. Him not wanting to get into a relationship after brought on the accusation of rape. It appeared to be entitlement on her part, as she didn't get what she wanted using sex, so used the threat of the police to get what she wanted. The threat didn't work and was turned into punishment , which ended after 6 months when the case against him was dropped.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Is it that women are more willing to lie or that the police are more willing to believe them.
For me, it's mostly the latter.
Its more the police being afraid of bad press (they get a lot of that, so they're told to minimise it). For me, it's mostly the latter.
As others have bought up, it's trial by media that is the problem here. Police are afraid of the media backlash if the desired result doesn't happen and the media loves a good beat up on the police, it sells papers. Fortunately that policy is now paying dividends in exactly the kind of media backlash they didn't want.
Although anonymity for a victim is important and should be protected, if they want to blab to the papers, it should come with the knowledge that said protection is removed. That would solve a lot of issues with trial by media.
captain_cynic said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Is it that women are more willing to lie or that the police are more willing to believe them.
For me, it's mostly the latter.
Its more the police being afraid of bad press (they get a lot of that, so they're told to minimise it). For me, it's mostly the latter.
As others have bought up, it's trial by media that is the problem here. Police are afraid of the media backlash if the desired result doesn't happen and the media loves a good beat up on the police, it sells papers. Fortunately that policy is now paying dividends in exactly the kind of media backlash they didn't want.
Although anonymity for a victim is important and should be protected, if they want to blab to the papers, it should come with the knowledge that said protection is removed. That would solve a lot of issues with trial by media.
personally Im in favour of anonimity for the defendant,and while I get that naming him *may* bring some other victims forward, how often does that ACTUALLY happen? Maybe make him anonymous *unless* a Judge allows it in the interests of bringing further victims? let the CPS make the case for it.
captain_cynic said:
Although anonymity for a victim is important and should be protected, if they want to blab to the papers, it should come with the knowledge that said protection is removed. That would solve a lot of issues with trial by media.
I think what is often overlooked is that - in the case of false allegations, the victim is in fact the person against whom the allegations are made.There is no annonymity for the victim in these cases.
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