Another prove your innocence case

[StottyGTR]

saaby93 said:

techguyone said:

Mixed feelings, on one hand it's good that an 'alleged' paedophile will be questioned and dealt with, got no problem with that.

The police too, don't seem to be discouraging these groups of people and there's a fair bit of publicity in the news etc about them.

Then again...

Borderline vigilantism is that ever a good thing? especially when the brain cell challenged of Facebook get a sniff, you're pretty much there with torches and pitchforks territory then.

I'm quite surprised that people still get caught like this given all the publicity you'd have thought anyone with half a brain would steer clear of chatrooms where anyone could be well, anybody really.

So yea... mixed feelings

The problem is we dont know how the trap was set up and what happened, and it hasnt been before a court to prove one way or the other
At what point was he told about age, and at that point was he in friendship mode or had he been strung along
You only have to see reports of people losing their life savings, how they can be taken in.
But assumed guilty, by quite a few

The Police are working with these groups now to ensure they aren't setting up traps. The alleged makes the moves.

I don't think its a good thing he committed suicide, but I'm glad these groups are about and outing people, providing they do it the proper way.

[saaby93]

StottyGTR said:

saaby93 said:

techguyone said:

Mixed feelings, on one hand it's good that an 'alleged' paedophile will be questioned and dealt with, got no problem with that.

The police too, don't seem to be discouraging these groups of people and there's a fair bit of publicity in the news etc about them.

Then again...

Borderline vigilantism is that ever a good thing? especially when the brain cell challenged of Facebook get a sniff, you're pretty much there with torches and pitchforks territory then.

I'm quite surprised that people still get caught like this given all the publicity you'd have thought anyone with half a brain would steer clear of chatrooms where anyone could be well, anybody really.

So yea... mixed feelings

The problem is we dont know how the trap was set up and what happened, and it hasnt been before a court to prove one way or the other
At what point was he told about age, and at that point was he in friendship mode or had he been strung along
You only have to see reports of people losing their life savings, how they can be taken in.
But assumed guilty, by quite a few

The Police are working with these groups now to ensure they aren't setting up traps. The alleged makes the moves.
I don't think its a good thing he committed suicide, but I'm glad these groups are about and outing people, providing they do it the proper way.

Inverse grooming aside, is there an offence?

[saaby93]

Better add this one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43174235


Guy allegedly touches girl in supermarket
Luckily CCTV supplied late says no
Where would he be without the CCTV
If there was no CCTV would he be locked up now? Is there a presumption of guilt?
He's still suspended from work

[richie99]

saaby93 said:

Better add this one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43174235


Guy allegedly touches girl in supermarket
Luckily CCTV supplied late says no
Where would he be without the CCTV
If there was no CCTV would he be locked up now? Is there a presumption of guilt?
He's still suspended from work

But he must have done it because she said he did. Why would she lie? Even had an idiot friend who confirmed it. Again, the police lie about the evidence to try to keep it under wraps.

It’s much worse than failure to disclose evidence in general. It’s lying to try to avoid things the defence has asked for repeatedly but which they know undermines the case.

Until there are prosecutions for conspiracy for the pretend victims and at least misconduct cases against the police I will refuse to believe the justice system really cares beyond just orchestrating a whitewash.

[saaby93]

What about this one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-433745...

Couple have been convicted, the guy for causing brain injury to daughter, the woman for not taking her for treatment
He asserts at the inquest that the jury came to the wrong conclusion
She's already said the girl fell down stairs chasing a puppy and didnt think more of it
With no-else there how do you convict? or prove your innocence?

[techguyone]

I don't know, there'a a lot of history there, and it looks very very convoluted and complicated, I wouldn't like to be in the position of being in the Jury on that one. I looked up a lot of links to be a bit better acquainted and I just noped my way out.

I prefer things to be a bit more simplistic, and I'd expect the full detail to be an order of magnitude higher than what's online.

The family history & background detail would probably have been enough to damn them in any Jury room to be honest, my experiences of being in a jury room was that I fervently hoped to never find myself in court as all the jurors I were with were manipulable numpties of below average intelligence, and this was before Facebook, fk knows what the average wallah these days is like.

[Moonhawk]

saaby93 said:

Better add this one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43174235

"In police interview, William was told the CCTV taken in the shop was of poor quality and too far away to pick him out"

I don't understand this - surely the defence should have access to all of the available evidence regardless of it's perceived quality by default. If it really is of such poor quality - it'll be useless to the defence anyway, so it makes no sense to withhold it.

How can it be fair that the prosecution get to make an assessment as to whether or not evidence is of sufficient quality to release?

This case clearly highlights that people can and do get this assessment wrong (either intentionally or unintentionally).

IMO this is a clear case of the police trying to boost conviction rates, by hook or by crook. Sod that an innocent man could have his life destroyed based on nothing more than two silly girls making false and malicious allegations.

Edited by Moonhawk on Friday 23 March 10:03

[techguyone]

It's a big thing at the moment with details not being made available at all or very very late to the Defence, CPS chasing targets...

[saaby93]

techguyone said:

It's a big thing at the moment with details not being made available at all or very very late to the Defence, CPS chasing targets...

It shouldnt matter
Whats happened there is the guy is presumed guilty and the cctv gets him off
What should happen is that he's presumed innocent and the cctv convicts
Assume there is no cctv. Is he automatically guilty?

[techguyone]

Guilty unless proven Innocent seems to be how we're getting to nowadays sadly.

[saaby93]

This one the courts found them not guilty, presumed innocent
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43581569
but twitter doesnt believe it

How do so many people know how to use hashtags?

[amusingduck]

saaby93 said:

How do so many people know how to use hashtags?

It's a pretty simple concept to be fair

[anonymous-user]

saaby93 said:

This one the courts found them not guilty, presumed innocent
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43581569
but twitter doesnt believe it

How do so many people know how to use hashtags?

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ireland-ulster-rugby-rape-case-not-guilty-brendan-kelly-qc-victim-a8278216.html

Saying I believe her is a response to those people who would automatically call the woman a liar because a case was not provable beyond reasonable doubt to the jury.

[HughiusMaximus]

cookie118 said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ireland-ulste...

Saying I believe her is a response to those people who would automatically call the woman a liar because a case was not provable beyond reasonable doubt to the jury.

Flip this around and it is justification as to why the accused should remain anonymous until after the verdict also.
Full trial, unanimously cleared by the jury and they are still being lynched in the court of public opinion.
What are the odds Jackson will ever play for Ireland again?

[saaby93]

Beeb plugging Panorama on another
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43952462

[moanthebairns]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43879455

Rape "victims" should not attend court.

[andy_s]

From the beeb link, this doesn't seem a wise thing to put on social media...:



xxxxx @xxxxxx
"If I got raped today I wouldn’t even consider reporting it."

[saaby93]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-44...
8 months in jail presumed guilty

Luckily some text mesages 'proved' his innocence - what if they had not been available?

[rscott]

saaby93 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-44...
8 months in jail presumed guilty

Luckily some text mesages 'proved' his innocence - what if they had not been available?

Looks to me like someone in the CPS was doing their job properly - they requested the text messages and promptly discontinued the case once they'd received and reviewed them.

[saaby93]

rscott said:

saaby93 said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-44...
8 months in jail presumed guilty

Luckily some text mesages 'proved' his innocence - what if they had not been available?

Looks to me like someone in the CPS was doing their job properly - they requested the text messages and promptly discontinued the case once they'd received and reviewed them.

The problem is the other evidence shouldnt have stacked up to look like a conviction.
You shouldnt need to find a few text messages to prove your innocence.
If youre innocent you should be innocent without it