Another prove your innocence case
Discussion
Taylor James said:
REALIST123 said:
ChocolateFrog said:
There lack of objectivity in the CPS and the Police is the problem for me.
Having been accused by an ex of domestic violence (the truth being she was the violent person) I will never trust the police again.
She was the victim, I was a wife beater, her statement was defector truth.
I was naive and tried to tell my side of the story. Whenever I said something was a lie or didn't happen. The policemen just asked the question again, and again, and again. Finally he'd ask the question again and then say something along the lines of "for the tape the Mr #### seems to be getting agitated"
Nothing did eventually come of it as nothing ever happened but that 2 hour interview gave me all I needed to know. They were goading me to say anything that they could construe in a way that would support a case.
I will never say anything in interview should I be in that situation again. The system is borderline corrupt.
When we have:Having been accused by an ex of domestic violence (the truth being she was the violent person) I will never trust the police again.
She was the victim, I was a wife beater, her statement was defector truth.
I was naive and tried to tell my side of the story. Whenever I said something was a lie or didn't happen. The policemen just asked the question again, and again, and again. Finally he'd ask the question again and then say something along the lines of "for the tape the Mr #### seems to be getting agitated"
Nothing did eventually come of it as nothing ever happened but that 2 hour interview gave me all I needed to know. They were goading me to say anything that they could construe in a way that would support a case.
I will never say anything in interview should I be in that situation again. The system is borderline corrupt.
“In 2014, Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary (HMIC) issued guidance which said, when a crime is recorded, "the presumption that a victim should always be believed should be institutionalised"......
what do you expect?
And it’s not just the police. A few years ago I was accused of a criminal act and ended up dragged through the courts over a 15 month period, culminating in a 9 day CC trial before the case was dismissed at half time.
For 18 months I was definitely treated as if I was guilty by all involved but my legal team.
I think we all know the well intentioned thinking that lay behind that guidance but it goes too far.
What's needed is a presumption that an alleged victim will always be taken seriously. Believing/disbelieving them can come when there's proof or not.
Bigends said:
he HMIC quote in relation to victims being believed relates to the recording of crimes by Police - not prosecutions. Victims alleging rape and other sexual offences werent being believed at that time and no crimes recorded. Many reports were later being incorrectly cancelled by Police.
Is the whole recording system flawed?If they dont go so far as being proven as a crime shouldn't they be recorded as 'alleged crimes' ?
Edited by saaby93 on Saturday 27th July 20:36
saaby93 said:
Bigends said:
he HMIC quote in relation to victims being believed relates to the recording of crimes by Police - not prosecutions. Victims alleging rape and other sexual offences werent being believed at that time and no crimes recorded. Many reports were later being incorrectly cancelled by Police.
Is the whole recording system flawed?If they dont go so far as being not proven as a crime shouldn't they be recorded as 'alleged crimes' ?
Any further action taken after then is purely a matter for Police decision making.
Record to investigate = NOT investigate to record.
JagLover said:
Mental health issues? Attention seeking? Either way it's nothing new, blaming a dozen people excepted.Burwood said:
JagLover said:
Mental health issues? Attention seeking? Either way it's nothing new, blaming a dozen people excepted.JagLover said:
Burwood said:
JagLover said:
Mental health issues? Attention seeking? Either way it's nothing new, blaming a dozen people excepted.Burwood said:
JagLover said:
Burwood said:
JagLover said:
Mental health issues? Attention seeking? Either way it's nothing new, blaming a dozen people excepted.If she hadnt changed her mind, the 12 of them might still be trying to prove their innocence - who do you believe.
Whatever it was still might have happened, but she could have changed her mind because it was less hassle
In which case she's the one now trying to prove innocence?
saaby93 said:
Burwood said:
JagLover said:
Burwood said:
JagLover said:
Mental health issues? Attention seeking? Either way it's nothing new, blaming a dozen people excepted.If she hadnt changed her mind, the 12 of them might still be trying to prove their innocence - who do you believe.
Whatever it was still might have happened, but she could have changed her mind because it was less hassle
In which case she's the one now trying to prove innocence?
And even if that sort of behaviour is seen to be acceptable, participants are obviously putting themselves at risk of accusations of rape. So the girl consented, but to how many? To what? And did she withdraw consent part way through the group etc?. Common sense should warn a group of guys off this sort of activity surely.
If there had been a roughly equal number of girls- different story.
mac96 said:
Willing or not, what sort of guy thinks that he and 11 of his mates should be piling onto a girl one after the other? And filming each other? If that is what was happening, none of the parties seem like shining lights of good behaviour.
And even if that sort of behaviour is seen to be acceptable, participants are obviously putting themselves at risk of accusations of rape. So the girl consented, but to how many? To what? And did she withdraw consent part way through the group etc?. Common sense should warn a group of guys off this sort of activity surely.
If there had been a roughly equal number of girls- different story.
possibly she had a fantasy of pulling a train, who knows? As for the lads - given their age it could well be a scenario of "...any hole's a goal.." so happy days.And even if that sort of behaviour is seen to be acceptable, participants are obviously putting themselves at risk of accusations of rape. So the girl consented, but to how many? To what? And did she withdraw consent part way through the group etc?. Common sense should warn a group of guys off this sort of activity surely.
If there had been a roughly equal number of girls- different story.
Edited by irocfan on Wednesday 31st July 11:25
irocfan said:
mac96 said:
Willing or not, what sort of guy thinks that he and 11 of his mates should be piling onto a girl one after the other? And filming each other? If that is what was happening, none of the parties seem like shining lights of good behaviour.
And even if that sort of behaviour is seen to be acceptable, participants are obviously putting themselves at risk of accusations of rape. So the girl consented, but to how many? To what? And did she withdraw consent part way through the group etc?. Common sense should warn a group of guys off this sort of activity surely.
If there had been a roughly equal number of girls- different story.
possibly she had a fantasy of pulling a train, who knows? As for the pads - given their age it could well be a scenario of "...any hole's a goal.." so happy days.And even if that sort of behaviour is seen to be acceptable, participants are obviously putting themselves at risk of accusations of rape. So the girl consented, but to how many? To what? And did she withdraw consent part way through the group etc?. Common sense should warn a group of guys off this sort of activity surely.
If there had been a roughly equal number of girls- different story.
mac96 said:
Willing or not, what sort of guy thinks that he and 11 of his mates should be piling onto a girl one after the other? And filming each other? If that is what was happening, none of the parties seem like shining lights of good behaviour.
And even if that sort of behaviour is seen to be acceptable, participants are obviously putting themselves at risk of accusations of rape. So the girl consented, but to how many? To what? And did she withdraw consent part way through the group etc?. Common sense should warn a group of guys off this sort of activity surely.
If there had been a roughly equal number of girls- different story.
That's one hell of an imagination you've got there. There's nothing in that referenced BBC report to say that sexual intercourse even took place. And even if that sort of behaviour is seen to be acceptable, participants are obviously putting themselves at risk of accusations of rape. So the girl consented, but to how many? To what? And did she withdraw consent part way through the group etc?. Common sense should warn a group of guys off this sort of activity surely.
If there had been a roughly equal number of girls- different story.
hutchst said:
mac96 said:
Willing or not, what sort of guy thinks that he and 11 of his mates should be piling onto a girl one after the other? And filming each other? If that is what was happening, none of the parties seem like shining lights of good behaviour.
And even if that sort of behaviour is seen to be acceptable, participants are obviously putting themselves at risk of accusations of rape. So the girl consented, but to how many? To what? And did she withdraw consent part way through the group etc?. Common sense should warn a group of guys off this sort of activity surely.
If there had been a roughly equal number of girls- different story.
That's one hell of an imagination you've got there. There's nothing in that referenced BBC report to say that sexual intercourse even took place. And even if that sort of behaviour is seen to be acceptable, participants are obviously putting themselves at risk of accusations of rape. So the girl consented, but to how many? To what? And did she withdraw consent part way through the group etc?. Common sense should warn a group of guys off this sort of activity surely.
If there had been a roughly equal number of girls- different story.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9621934/ayia-napa-ra...
Of course, we will never know exactly what happened, and the local law on sexual assault and rape might have relevant differences to UK law for all I know.
hutchst said:
That's one hell of an imagination you've got there. There's nothing in that referenced BBC report to say that sexual intercourse even took place.
Nothing on the Beeb, but the evidence of her getting nailed by 3 of them is available on a number of grumble sites. (So I hear)Taxi driver victim saved by tracker device - 3 years sentence
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-4...
Assuming no tracker device was available to prove your innocence, would the evidence have been enough to convict?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-4...
Assuming no tracker device was available to prove your innocence, would the evidence have been enough to convict?
Obviously, it is terrible to be accused of something you haven't done. And any woman found guilty of making a false accusation should be appropriately punished.
But the reality is that if a man has sex with a woman against her wishes he almost certainly not going to receive any punishment at all.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49669760
PH is obsessed with the notion that thousands of women are constantly trying to trap men and set them for up, whereas the statistics shows that the number of reports of rape that end in a conviction is about 3%. There is also a stack load of evidence which suggests that most rapes and sexual assaults don't even get reported. There is still too much focus on the actions of the victims and an assumption that women should have to prove that they actively said 'no' as opposed to men having justify their actions and being able to prove they actively sought or obtained consent.
Given the minuscule chance of obtaining a conviction and knowing what rape victims have to endure doing a trial I would not encourage any woman to go through with pressing charges. What a sad state of affairs.
But the reality is that if a man has sex with a woman against her wishes he almost certainly not going to receive any punishment at all.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49669760
PH is obsessed with the notion that thousands of women are constantly trying to trap men and set them for up, whereas the statistics shows that the number of reports of rape that end in a conviction is about 3%. There is also a stack load of evidence which suggests that most rapes and sexual assaults don't even get reported. There is still too much focus on the actions of the victims and an assumption that women should have to prove that they actively said 'no' as opposed to men having justify their actions and being able to prove they actively sought or obtained consent.
Given the minuscule chance of obtaining a conviction and knowing what rape victims have to endure doing a trial I would not encourage any woman to go through with pressing charges. What a sad state of affairs.
rover 623gsi said:
Obviously, it is terrible to be accused of something you haven't done. And any woman found guilty of making a false accusation should be appropriately punished.
But the reality is that if a man has sex with a woman against her wishes he almost certainly not going to receive any punishment at all.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49669760
PH is obsessed with the notion that thousands of women are constantly trying to trap men and set them for up, whereas the statistics shows that the number of reports of rape that end in a conviction is about 3%. There is also a stack load of evidence which suggests that most rapes and sexual assaults don't even get reported. There is still too much focus on the actions of the victims and an assumption that women should have to prove that they actively said 'no' as opposed to men having justify their actions and being able to prove they actively sought or obtained consent.
Given the minuscule chance of obtaining a conviction and knowing what rape victims have to endure doing a trial I would not encourage any woman to go through with pressing charges. What a sad state of affairs.
Rape is a crime and like all crimes guilt has to be proved. It is not the job of the accused to prove their innocence. Rape is rarely witnessed, there may be no physical evidence and so can often be one person's word against another's. In those circumstances I don't think we should be surprised that prosecutions and convictions are low. That doesn't mean that rape isn't taken seriously by the authorities. It is probably an unfortunate consequence of the nature of the crime and the circumstances I have described.But the reality is that if a man has sex with a woman against her wishes he almost certainly not going to receive any punishment at all.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49669760
PH is obsessed with the notion that thousands of women are constantly trying to trap men and set them for up, whereas the statistics shows that the number of reports of rape that end in a conviction is about 3%. There is also a stack load of evidence which suggests that most rapes and sexual assaults don't even get reported. There is still too much focus on the actions of the victims and an assumption that women should have to prove that they actively said 'no' as opposed to men having justify their actions and being able to prove they actively sought or obtained consent.
Given the minuscule chance of obtaining a conviction and knowing what rape victims have to endure doing a trial I would not encourage any woman to go through with pressing charges. What a sad state of affairs.
What is the alternative? Accept the word of one person over another's with no corroboration? That is very unlikely to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
rover 623gsi said:
the statistics shows that the number of reports of rape that end in a conviction is about 3%.
What percentage of the allegations were genuine & what percentage were false? Nobody knows.I knew a girl who the following morning would threaten guys with rape accusations just for her own personal amusement. That sort of thing tends to sour one's opinions on the subject.
There were 1,925 convictions in 2018-19 - a 27% drop from the previous year. This was in spite of allegations of rape reaching a high of 58,000 in England and Wales.
Given what women have to endure when reporting a rape and what they have to through in a trial I find it hard to believe that 58,000 of them would make it up. I consider it far more likely that guilty men are getting off scot free.
Given what women have to endure when reporting a rape and what they have to through in a trial I find it hard to believe that 58,000 of them would make it up. I consider it far more likely that guilty men are getting off scot free.
rover 623gsi said:
There were 1,925 convictions in 2018-19 - a 27% drop from the previous year. This was in spite of allegations of rape reaching a high of 58,000 in England and Wales.
Given what women have to endure when reporting a rape and what they have to through in a trial I find it hard to believe that 58,000 of them would make it up. I consider it far more likely that guilty men are getting off scot free.
That's always been the case though for all crimesGiven what women have to endure when reporting a rape and what they have to through in a trial I find it hard to believe that 58,000 of them would make it up. I consider it far more likely that guilty men are getting off scot free.
The justice system is setup so that in grey cases it's better that the guilty go free than the innocent are locked up.
Can't lock people up just because the stats don't look right - have to be certain of guilt.
The other way is to take the courts out of it and use some sort of reconciliation type procedures instead
Do the stats show percentage of allegations involving strangers to those known to the complainant?
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