Another prove your innocence case
Discussion
JagLover said:
Come on, basic common sense says it is not the same.
Whatever the letter of the law for there to be a crime normally there has to be a victim and most thirteen year old lads they would regard this as similar to a lottery win rather than being victimised. I certainly would have at the same age.
Would you think the same if it were a willing 13 year old girl and a 17 year old boy?Whatever the letter of the law for there to be a crime normally there has to be a victim and most thirteen year old lads they would regard this as similar to a lottery win rather than being victimised. I certainly would have at the same age.
JagLover said:
steveatesh said:
And yet by his own sexist admission the judge is not treating her the same as he would a man, despite her making her offending worse with such an accusation. It’s outrageous in my opinion.
Come on, basic common sense says it is not the same.Whatever the letter of the law for there to be a crime normally there has to be a victim and most thirteen year old lads they would regard this as similar to a lottery win rather than being victimised. I certainly would have at the same age.
Common sense suggests there's loads of schoolgirls who would love the lottery win of a one direction member in their bed (or whatever today's equivalent is). Do you feel the same way about that?
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Would you think the same if it were a willing 13 year old girl and a 17 year old boy?
Of course not, that was why I said it was not the same. Pretending the sexes are identical is pointless because they are not. It has to be taken into consideration the harm that has been inflicted upon the "victim" (in the case of the lad).JagLover said:
Of course not, that was why I said it was not the same. Pretending the sexes are identical is pointless because they are not. It has to be taken into consideration the harm that has been inflicted upon the "victim" (in the case of the lad).
But it is the same.The fact that you don't recognise that makes you part of the problem.
JagLover said:
Come on, basic common sense says it is not the same.
Whatever the letter of the law for there to be a crime normally there has to be a victim and most thirteen year old lads they would regard this as similar to a lottery win rather than being victimised. I certainly would have at the same age.
As others have said you are part of the problem - thinking you can have a pick and mix approach to who it is ok to sexually abuse is a curious belief to hold - how did you manage to form it, some form of experience or just ignorance?Whatever the letter of the law for there to be a crime normally there has to be a victim and most thirteen year old lads they would regard this as similar to a lottery win rather than being victimised. I certainly would have at the same age.
Being assaulted affects different people in different ways, and abusing a boy can be equally as harmful psychologically and physically as abusing a girl, no matter who the abuser is.
for example:
https://1in6.org/get-information/myths/
"Girls and women can sexually abuse or assault boys and men. The boys and men are not “lucky,” but exploited and harmed."
https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types...
"Any child is at risk of being sexual abused. It's important to remember that both boys and girls can be sexually abused."
You are demonstrating gamma bias, just like the judge and much of society, but it doesn't make it right.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
JagLover said:
Of course not, that was why I said it was not the same. Pretending the sexes are identical is pointless because they are not. It has to be taken into consideration the harm that has been inflicted upon the "victim" (in the case of the lad).
But it is the same.The fact that you don't recognise that makes you part of the problem.
Raiding your mum's clothing catalogues for the lingerie sections and all other related activities. Your average thirteen year old lad wouldn't need to be asked twice IMO and certainly wouldn't think they were a "victim" afterwards.
Clearly technically she was guilty of a crime and so a conviction, and some community service, would be appropriate. Sending a young mother to jail over this though would clearly be a nonsense.
The situations cannot be identical between the sexes because the power dynamics, emotional consequences, and who must take the lead in such activity, is different.
JagLover said:
The situations cannot be identical between the sexes because the power dynamics, emotional consequences, and who must take the lead in such activity, is different.
She was the one with the power, she took the lead and she abused him plain and simple. Obviously the boys parents don't think the same as you, that he would be fine with it. I presume if you had a young boy you would be happy for him to be likewise sexually abused?
As regards emotional consequences, boys and men can be equally affected emotionally, it iOS a myth to think otherwise. For example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC38762...
"Younger men reported experiencing higher levels of emotional abuse, which declined with age. Older females reported experiencing less emotional abuse than older males. Overall, emotional abuse was more common in younger participants."
"A number of studies indicate that sexual victimisation, both in childhood and beyond, is a significant risk factor for suicide attempts and for (accidental) fatal overdoses, among both men and women." https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/long-term-ef...
"This threat may lead to the denial of sexual abuse by males, which is furthered by the myth that males are "eternally sexually willing and eager, at least with female partners" (p. 17). A young man sexually abused by a female may question his masculinity, wondering why he did not enjoy the sexual encounter. If he is a heterosexual male, he may come to question his sexual identity." https://www.hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educa...
I don't even hope to get you to change your mind as, despite evidence to the contrary, it seems closed to the possibility that your views of boys and girls is fundamentally wrong. Takes all sorts to make a world, even people who think being a pedophile is ok in certain circumstances.
steveatesh said:
She was the one with the power, she took the lead and she abused him plain and simple.
Obviously the boys parents don't think the same as you, that he would be fine with it. I presume if you had a young boy you would be happy for him to be likewise sexually abused?
As regards emotional consequences, boys and men can be equally affected emotionally, it iOS a myth to think otherwise. For example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC38762...
"Younger men reported experiencing higher levels of emotional abuse, which declined with age. Older females reported experiencing less emotional abuse than older males. Overall, emotional abuse was more common in younger participants."
"A number of studies indicate that sexual victimisation, both in childhood and beyond, is a significant risk factor for suicide attempts and for (accidental) fatal overdoses, among both men and women." https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/long-term-ef...
"This threat may lead to the denial of sexual abuse by males, which is furthered by the myth that males are "eternally sexually willing and eager, at least with female partners" (p. 17). A young man sexually abused by a female may question his masculinity, wondering why he did not enjoy the sexual encounter. If he is a heterosexual male, he may come to question his sexual identity." https://www.hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educa...
I don't even hope to get you to change your mind as, despite evidence to the contrary, it seems closed to the possibility that your views of boys and girls is fundamentally wrong. Takes all sorts to make a world, even people who think being a pedophile is ok in certain circumstances.
Well you are unlikely to change my mind with a series of links that have little relevance to the subject at hand. Your second link for example is about the impact of child sex abuse which I imagine can be very devastating. There is however a large difference between being the victim of some male kiddie fiddler and getting it on with a hot girl four years older than you when you are a young lad. Obviously the boys parents don't think the same as you, that he would be fine with it. I presume if you had a young boy you would be happy for him to be likewise sexually abused?
As regards emotional consequences, boys and men can be equally affected emotionally, it iOS a myth to think otherwise. For example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC38762...
"Younger men reported experiencing higher levels of emotional abuse, which declined with age. Older females reported experiencing less emotional abuse than older males. Overall, emotional abuse was more common in younger participants."
"A number of studies indicate that sexual victimisation, both in childhood and beyond, is a significant risk factor for suicide attempts and for (accidental) fatal overdoses, among both men and women." https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/long-term-ef...
"This threat may lead to the denial of sexual abuse by males, which is furthered by the myth that males are "eternally sexually willing and eager, at least with female partners" (p. 17). A young man sexually abused by a female may question his masculinity, wondering why he did not enjoy the sexual encounter. If he is a heterosexual male, he may come to question his sexual identity." https://www.hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educa...
I don't even hope to get you to change your mind as, despite evidence to the contrary, it seems closed to the possibility that your views of boys and girls is fundamentally wrong. Takes all sorts to make a world, even people who think being a pedophile is ok in certain circumstances.
In this case it was judged to be illegal, no doubt correctly, but a custodial sentence does not seem at all appropriate.
amusingduck said:
JagLover said:
steveatesh said:
And yet by his own sexist admission the judge is not treating her the same as he would a man, despite her making her offending worse with such an accusation. It’s outrageous in my opinion.
Come on, basic common sense says it is not the same.Whatever the letter of the law for there to be a crime normally there has to be a victim and most thirteen year old lads they would regard this as similar to a lottery win rather than being victimised. I certainly would have at the same age.
Common sense suggests there's loads of schoolgirls who would love the lottery win of a one direction member in their bed (or whatever today's equivalent is). Do you feel the same way about that?
amusingduck said:
amusingduck said:
JagLover said:
steveatesh said:
And yet by his own sexist admission the judge is not treating her the same as he would a man, despite her making her offending worse with such an accusation. It’s outrageous in my opinion.
Come on, basic common sense says it is not the same.Whatever the letter of the law for there to be a crime normally there has to be a victim and most thirteen year old lads they would regard this as similar to a lottery win rather than being victimised. I certainly would have at the same age.
Common sense suggests there's loads of schoolgirls who would love the lottery win of a one direction member in their bed (or whatever today's equivalent is). Do you feel the same way about that?
The situations cannot be identical between the sexes because the power dynamics, emotional consequences, and who must take the lead in such activity, is different.
JagLover said:
amusingduck said:
amusingduck said:
JagLover said:
steveatesh said:
And yet by his own sexist admission the judge is not treating her the same as he would a man, despite her making her offending worse with such an accusation. It’s outrageous in my opinion.
Come on, basic common sense says it is not the same.Whatever the letter of the law for there to be a crime normally there has to be a victim and most thirteen year old lads they would regard this as similar to a lottery win rather than being victimised. I certainly would have at the same age.
Common sense suggests there's loads of schoolgirls who would love the lottery win of a one direction member in their bed (or whatever today's equivalent is). Do you feel the same way about that?
The situations cannot be identical between the sexes because the power dynamics, emotional consequences, and who must take the lead in such activity, is different.
Which part is not equivalent? Both have a lottery win, both wouldn't believe their luck, both would be overjoyed with the experience, common sense would suggest. This scenario must be acceptable with your logic?
amusingduck said:
You didn't answer whether you'd be happy with a schoolgirl/one direction member?
Which part is not equivalent? Both have a lottery win, both wouldn't believe their luck, both would be overjoyed with the experience, common sense would suggest. This scenario must be acceptable with your logic?
I think that rather misstates the appeal of many boy bands to young girls. They are usually so popular precisely because they are good looking, non threatening and perhaps a little asexual. They are the subjects of a teenage crush rather than serious sexual desire.Which part is not equivalent? Both have a lottery win, both wouldn't believe their luck, both would be overjoyed with the experience, common sense would suggest. This scenario must be acceptable with your logic?
How many thirteen year old girls are consuming porn compared with thirteen year old boys?
JagLover said:
amusingduck said:
You didn't answer whether you'd be happy with a schoolgirl/one direction member?
Which part is not equivalent? Both have a lottery win, both wouldn't believe their luck, both would be overjoyed with the experience, common sense would suggest. This scenario must be acceptable with your logic?
I think that rather misstates the appeal of many boy bands to young girls. They are usually so popular precisely because they are good looking, non threatening and perhaps a little asexual. They are the subjects of a teenage crush rather than serious sexual desire.Which part is not equivalent? Both have a lottery win, both wouldn't believe their luck, both would be overjoyed with the experience, common sense would suggest. This scenario must be acceptable with your logic?
How many thirteen year old girls are consuming porn compared with thirteen year old boys?
I don't find that argument very convincing. I'm pretty sure I remember young one direction fangirls sending Caroline Flack death threats or something along those lines when she started dating one of them.
Taking gender roles out of it, how about an exceedingly handsome gay man and a 13 year old gay boy? That's even more of a direct equivalence
JagLover said:
Well you are unlikely to change my mind with a series of links that have little relevance to the subject at hand. Your second link for example is about the impact of child sex abuse which I imagine can be very devastating. There is however a large difference between being the victim of some male kiddie fiddler and getting it on with a hot girl four years older than you when you are a young lad.
In this case it was judged to be illegal, no doubt correctly, but a custodial sentence does not seem at all appropriate.
Yet no doubt it would if the perpetrator was male and the victim female.In this case it was judged to be illegal, no doubt correctly, but a custodial sentence does not seem at all appropriate.
You attitude of trivialising sexual abuse of boys sucks to be honest.
s2art said:
Another non PC vote here. If I at 13 had the opportunity to shag a hot 17 year old I would have perceived it as the exact opposite of abuse. Like it or not boys and girls are different.
Only if you think girls dont have similar thoughts or carry them out.So back to the point
Why wasnt the lad put before the courts when the girl accused him?
What could he have put forward to show his innocence
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Yet no doubt it would if the perpetrator was male and the victim female.
You attitude of trivialising sexual abuse of boys sucks to be honest.
In what universe is a horny 13 year old lad shagging a willing hot 17 year old girl 'abuse'? Technically illegal perhaps, but abuse?You attitude of trivialising sexual abuse of boys sucks to be honest.
saaby93 said:
Only if you think girls dont have similar thoughts or carry them out.
So back to the point
Why wasnt the lad put before the courts when the girl accused him?
What could he have put forward to show his innocence
Becuase she only did so as a defence to the crimes she was being tried for. She did not make a claim of rape to the police. No need to wonder why.So back to the point
Why wasnt the lad put before the courts when the girl accused him?
What could he have put forward to show his innocence
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff