Persimmon Homes -- CEO £100m Bonus...
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
My house was built on site and not pre-fab’d. 350 years later (to paraphrase Elton John) it’s still standing, stronger than it ever did.
The problem is today’s new builds are generally shoddy, using methods stuck in the 1960’s.
Where’s the embrace of solar, heat pumps etc., particularly given current grid connection costs.
But that’s a different topic...
Yipper said:
To give it some context...
The average UK healthcare-sector employee bonus in 2017 is roughly 1% of their base pay.
The average UK private-sector employee bonus (all industries) in 2017 is roughly 7% of their base pay.
The average UK private-financial-insurance-sector employee bonus in 2017 is roughly 40% of their base pay.
The Persimmon CEO's bonus in 2017 is roughly 10,000% of their base pay.
Which of the above are profit making and not loss making?The average UK healthcare-sector employee bonus in 2017 is roughly 1% of their base pay.
The average UK private-sector employee bonus (all industries) in 2017 is roughly 7% of their base pay.
The average UK private-financial-insurance-sector employee bonus in 2017 is roughly 40% of their base pay.
The Persimmon CEO's bonus in 2017 is roughly 10,000% of their base pay.
How many of the private companies get gold plated final salary pensions.
The least you could do is to try and be look at the full pictute.
Kuji said:
Yipper said:
To give it some context...
The average UK healthcare-sector employee bonus in 2017 is roughly 1% of their base pay.
The average UK private-sector employee bonus (all industries) in 2017 is roughly 7% of their base pay.
The average UK private-financial-insurance-sector employee bonus in 2017 is roughly 40% of their base pay.
The Persimmon CEO's bonus in 2017 is roughly 10,000% of their base pay.
Which of the above are profit making and not loss making?The average UK healthcare-sector employee bonus in 2017 is roughly 1% of their base pay.
The average UK private-sector employee bonus (all industries) in 2017 is roughly 7% of their base pay.
The average UK private-financial-insurance-sector employee bonus in 2017 is roughly 40% of their base pay.
The Persimmon CEO's bonus in 2017 is roughly 10,000% of their base pay.
How many of the private companies get gold plated final salary pensions.
The least you could do is to try and be look at the full pictute.
Under 10% of UK companies offer final-salary pensions.
Lots of companies making a profit.
Bonuses are a, err, bonus on top of pension-contributions.
Hth
If you are getting bonuses on the scale of these guys, who would NEED a pension?
But I bet they have one anyway - and a pretty cast iron highly lucrative one at that. Not their workers of course.
And, as we have seen in the cases of Philip Green and Robert Maxwell, these arch entrepreneurs are not above ruining their employees' (inadequate) pension schemes to better themselves at times.
Look what's happening down in Port Talbot at the moment to see how the steel workers down there are being stiffed by their bosses.
But I bet they have one anyway - and a pretty cast iron highly lucrative one at that. Not their workers of course.
And, as we have seen in the cases of Philip Green and Robert Maxwell, these arch entrepreneurs are not above ruining their employees' (inadequate) pension schemes to better themselves at times.
Look what's happening down in Port Talbot at the moment to see how the steel workers down there are being stiffed by their bosses.
Eric Mc said:
If you are getting bonuses on the scale of these guys, who would NEED a pension?
But I bet they have one anyway - and a pretty cast iron highly lucrative one at that. Not their workers of course.
And, as we have seen in the cases of Philip Green and Robert Maxwell, these arch entrepreneurs are not above ruining their employees' (inadequate) pension schemes to better themselves at times.
Unless you know otherwise, Robert Maxwell fraudulently stole from the Mirror pension scheme, whereas the shortfall in the BHS scheme was primarily due to increasing longevity and declining interest rates (because the Trustees chose not to hedge those exposures), but Green had agreed additional contributions to reduce the deficit (similar to many other schemes.But I bet they have one anyway - and a pretty cast iron highly lucrative one at that. Not their workers of course.
And, as we have seen in the cases of Philip Green and Robert Maxwell, these arch entrepreneurs are not above ruining their employees' (inadequate) pension schemes to better themselves at times.
The Persimmon schemes were in small surplus at the end of 2015 and slipped into a small deficit in 2016 due to the impact of falling interest rates. The employer has made substantial contributions to support the pension scheme, as well as offering a competitive DC scheme for those not in the DB scheme.
So not sure why you'd make the claim above, unless you know more than the rest of us about these schemes?
Eric_Mc said:
Look what's happening down in Port Talbot at the moment to see how the steel workers down there are being stiffed by their bosses.
You mean where unaffordable DB pension schemes are being removed and replaced with something more sustainable and affordable?Edited by sidicks on Sunday 17th December 13:00
caelite said:
crankedup said:
More ammunition for Momentom are whatever they call themselves.
It really is hard not to agree with some of their points when it comes to stuff like this. I am all for the invisible hand of the free market, but surely SOME finite resources (housing, basic food, electricity) with guaranteed universal demand need to be protected in some way? It's hard to ignore when on one hand you see the 'housing crisis' of first time buyers in much of the country being entirely unable to afford even a 10% deposit on property in their area, and on the other hand you see property developers like this, literally having too much money (or more than they could ever have anticipated).It seems that time and time again, the free market works in cases where there is no guaranteed demand, luxury foods, cars, electronics etc etc. When prices get too high, or the economy suffers, people have the option to just turn away and say 'I am not paying that', and the industry either fixes itself or disappears. However I do believe that areas of universal demand are widely open to corporate abuse and need to be protected. However it really hurts me that there is an apparent need to vote for the party which, in my mind, will harm the middle classes the most, just to enact the corporate protections that the lower classes need to survive.
Edited by caelite on Saturday 16th December 23:41
crankedup said:
caelite said:
crankedup said:
More ammunition for Momentom are whatever they call themselves.
It really is hard not to agree with some of their points when it comes to stuff like this. I am all for the invisible hand of the free market, but surely SOME finite resources (housing, basic food, electricity) with guaranteed universal demand need to be protected in some way? It's hard to ignore when on one hand you see the 'housing crisis' of first time buyers in much of the country being entirely unable to afford even a 10% deposit on property in their area, and on the other hand you see property developers like this, literally having too much money (or more than they could ever have anticipated).It seems that time and time again, the free market works in cases where there is no guaranteed demand, luxury foods, cars, electronics etc etc. When prices get too high, or the economy suffers, people have the option to just turn away and say 'I am not paying that', and the industry either fixes itself or disappears. However I do believe that areas of universal demand are widely open to corporate abuse and need to be protected. However it really hurts me that there is an apparent need to vote for the party which, in my mind, will harm the middle classes the most, just to enact the corporate protections that the lower classes need to survive.
Edited by caelite on Saturday 16th December 23:41
V8 Fettler said:
The major house builders have a stranglehold on the new build housing market in the UK, this will continue until houses are built in factories and then assembled on site in a few days. The concept of carrying the raw materials to site and then assembling houses is medieval. Wattle and daub anyone?
once again our German friends lead the way in off site ‘pre fab’ housing. Hus Haus is just one example of modern Tech’ being used to very good advantage. Brilliant house build, one of thier products was filmed being built in the U.K., team of German builders came over for a couple of weeks, super efficient, detailed and exacting build. Think it was Grand Designs or something on those lines. Compared to our outdated, inefficient brick block build in muddy fields Don’t get me started on the UK planning systems, bag’Os
te.crankedup said:
once again our German friends lead the way in off site ‘pre fab’ housing. Hus Haus is just one example of modern Tech’ being used to very good advantage. Brilliant house build, one of thier products was filmed being built in the U.K., team of German builders came over for a couple of weeks, super efficient, detailed and exacting build. Think it was Grand Designs or something on those lines. Compared to our outdated, inefficient brick block build in muddy fields
Don’t get me started on the UK planning systems, bag’Oste.
Hus House is actually Norwegian. If you mean Huf Haus, yes they are very good but so they should be at the price.- you will be looking at an absolute minimum of £300 sq ft to build a Huf Haus, excluding land costs so not really a realistic answer to the national housing shortage.Don’t get me started on the UK planning systems, bag’Os
te.There are organisations like Caledonian here in the U.K. Making modular resi to a far higher standard than anything constructed traditionally but the big challenge is that buyers don't really want them
SIngle story pre-fabs built immediately after the war had a design life of approx 10 years, some still around 60 years later.
The UK infatuation with old housing stock constructed from wattle and daub has led to the worst housing stock and highest levels of energy poverty in Western Europe. Demolish and replace with houses manufactured from modern composite materials and energy efficient glass.
Approx 2% of the UK has been built upon, plenty of space for new build, although perhaps up north rather than in the crowded south east.
The UK infatuation with old housing stock constructed from wattle and daub has led to the worst housing stock and highest levels of energy poverty in Western Europe. Demolish and replace with houses manufactured from modern composite materials and energy efficient glass.
Approx 2% of the UK has been built upon, plenty of space for new build, although perhaps up north rather than in the crowded south east.
ClaphamGT3 said:
crankedup said:
once again our German friends lead the way in off site ‘pre fab’ housing. Hus Haus is just one example of modern Tech’ being used to very good advantage. Brilliant house build, one of thier products was filmed being built in the U.K., team of German builders came over for a couple of weeks, super efficient, detailed and exacting build. Think it was Grand Designs or something on those lines. Compared to our outdated, inefficient brick block build in muddy fields
Don’t get me started on the UK planning systems, bag’Oste.
Hus House is actually Norwegian. If you mean Huf Haus, yes they are very good but so they should be at the price.- you will be looking at an absolute minimum of £300 sq ft to build a Huf Haus, excluding land costs so not really a realistic answer to the national housing shortage.Don’t get me started on the UK planning systems, bag’Os
te.There are organisations like Caledonian here in the U.K. Making modular resi to a far higher standard than anything constructed traditionally but the big challenge is that buyers don't really want them
As an aside, I recall self build costs at around 1k m/2 about twenty years ago for brick block so £300 s/ft does not seem so excessive. But of course in contest of starter homes, yes agreed to much.
Edited by crankedup on Sunday 17th December 19:30
crankedup said:
Surely a place in the market for these over the rubbish thrown up in brick and block?
Brick & block can be used to make very good buildings- they just require good workmanship. If people are willing to pay for a good build then they can get one. Pay peanuts, expect crap.Rovinghawk said:
crankedup said:
Surely a place in the market for these over the rubbish thrown up in brick and block?
Brick & block can be used to make very good buildings- they just require good workmanship. If people are willing to pay for a good build then they can get one. Pay peanuts, expect crap.caelite said:
It really is hard not to agree with some of their points when it comes to stuff like this. I am all for the invisible hand of the free market, but surely SOME finite resources (housing, basic food, electricity) with guaranteed universal demand need to be protected in some way? It's hard to ignore when on one hand you see the 'housing crisis' of first time buyers in much of the country being entirely unable to afford even a 10% deposit on property in their area, and on the other hand you see property developers like this, literally having too much money (or more than they could ever have anticipated).
It seems that time and time again, the free market works in cases where there is no guaranteed demand, luxury foods, cars, electronics etc etc. When prices get too high, or the economy suffers, people have the option to just turn away and say 'I am not paying that', and the industry either fixes itself or disappears. However I do believe that areas of universal demand are widely open to corporate abuse and need to be protected. However it really hurts me that there is an apparent need to vote for the party which, in my mind, will harm the middle classes the most, just to enact the corporate protections that the lower classes need to survive.
I think what you missed out is that he is only getting this bonus because of a misguided and disastrous government intervention interfering in the operation of the market, driving up demand and increasing the prices for his company’s product. It seems that time and time again, the free market works in cases where there is no guaranteed demand, luxury foods, cars, electronics etc etc. When prices get too high, or the economy suffers, people have the option to just turn away and say 'I am not paying that', and the industry either fixes itself or disappears. However I do believe that areas of universal demand are widely open to corporate abuse and need to be protected. However it really hurts me that there is an apparent need to vote for the party which, in my mind, will harm the middle classes the most, just to enact the corporate protections that the lower classes need to survive.
Edited by caelite on Saturday 16th December 23:41
If instead, the Government had intervened in a beneficial way, by improving supply and removing the deliberate constraint on supply that the planning system represents, Persimmon would have to operate in a properly competitive market and the bonus would have been much smaller if non existent.
Granted the board was negligent in allowing such a scheme to be put in place with no cap on the bonus available. Hence the departure of the chair and the head of the remuneration committee. Getting off lightly!
crankedup said:
the timber framed houses appear to be the continued way forward. Not my field but it seems quaint that we still use brick block?
I suspect I've built more brick/block structures than you. Ditto timber structures.There is merit in both but structural masonry is very forgiving & reliable.
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