Persimmon Homes -- CEO £100m Bonus...
Discussion
drainbrain said:
My opinion on the topic is that the Persimmon CEO should be taxed to the nth degree. But my optional opinion is that the bonus should have been shared between every Persimmon employee given that the bonus does not directly relate to its recipient's sole performance.
Sounds like your opinion stems primarily from political preconceptions than from anything else.The CEO has a FAR greater effect on profitability and share price than a random site bricklayer or plumber do, and that's what the bonus rewards.
sidicks said:
You don't believe that morality is subjective?
You don't seem to understand that whilst it may be subjective it may also be collective. The 'social mores' it is collectively termed.More to the sidetrack point, do you yet accept that there are many who synonymise 'right' and 'legal' and that is exactly who the corporate tax avoiders are aiming their statements of acting legally at when confronted by media interrogators accusing them of doing wrong by legal means?
The wrongdoers are appealing to all the viewers who think "well it ain't really wrongdoing if it's legal, is it"? There are many of them.
drainbrain said:
More to the sidetrack point, do you yet accept that there are many who synonymise 'right' and 'legal'
If you think something is legal, but not right, then the person to address your objection to is your MP. He's the only one who can do anything about it on your behalf.For me, just seems a bit bad taste to accept the bonus...£100m is a euro millions win. For what? being around the helm when the government came handing out money for them to build shoddy new builds?
Still. Their money. They made the remuneration rules. They just didn't foresee the circumstances they now find themselves in, but of course aren't complaining. So not entirely self serving.
Still. £100m. And £600m total pot shared between just a handful of employees. That would make even the City/Wall St types blush. Even they are only clearing a single figure million for their bonuses, double figures if they've done really well...and we know how many £billions banks turn over and what level of profits they make. So to me, this really is out of all proportion.
If they were in an accounting hole because of the bumper result and big bonus/dividends was the way to sort it, surely a more sensible option would have been to spread the wealth a bit more. CEO & execs would have still done well out of it and the brickies, sparkies, foremen etc would have been well happy with a few extra £100's in their pay just in time for christmas.
Still. Their money. They made the remuneration rules. They just didn't foresee the circumstances they now find themselves in, but of course aren't complaining. So not entirely self serving.
Still. £100m. And £600m total pot shared between just a handful of employees. That would make even the City/Wall St types blush. Even they are only clearing a single figure million for their bonuses, double figures if they've done really well...and we know how many £billions banks turn over and what level of profits they make. So to me, this really is out of all proportion.
If they were in an accounting hole because of the bumper result and big bonus/dividends was the way to sort it, surely a more sensible option would have been to spread the wealth a bit more. CEO & execs would have still done well out of it and the brickies, sparkies, foremen etc would have been well happy with a few extra £100's in their pay just in time for christmas.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Saturday 16th December 20:03
Eric Mc said:
I doubt very much they are paying full Income Tax or NI on these bonuses.
If bonuses are paid in the form of share options or pension contributions, there may be no tax arising at all (initially). Tax will eventually be paid at a later date but the type and rate of tax may be very low depending on the manner in which the bonus is eventually crystalised.
CT is 20% and falling.
Why do you say that? Every stock bonus that I’ve ever received has been paid PAYE.If bonuses are paid in the form of share options or pension contributions, there may be no tax arising at all (initially). Tax will eventually be paid at a later date but the type and rate of tax may be very low depending on the manner in which the bonus is eventually crystalised.
CT is 20% and falling.
sidicks said:
You're a bit naive if you think the employees of banks and financial services companies don't pay massive amounts of tax on bonuses received in the form of shares.
Biggest bonus known to me of a friend was just over £10m. Tax was all paid at the appropriate marginal rate.The idea that large bonuses in the UK are regularly used to avoid tax just isn’t true.
I am a shareholder in Persimmon, I have no issue with the reward.
Ceo Jeff Fairburn joined in 2013.
Since then the share price has gone from 8 pounds up to highs of 28 pounds, the current Market Cap is 8.07 Billion pounds - that is a 350% increase.
That means the current executive team have added 5.7 billion pounds of value to the company - against the backdrop of brexit.
That is 5700 million pounds. 1/57 of that doesn't seem to outrageous to me.
People forget that the some of the biggest shareholders in Persimmon are AXA and Vanguard. This isn't just fat cats getting fatter, its everyday people who invest in funds as part of their pension.
Ceo Jeff Fairburn joined in 2013.
Since then the share price has gone from 8 pounds up to highs of 28 pounds, the current Market Cap is 8.07 Billion pounds - that is a 350% increase.
That means the current executive team have added 5.7 billion pounds of value to the company - against the backdrop of brexit.
That is 5700 million pounds. 1/57 of that doesn't seem to outrageous to me.
People forget that the some of the biggest shareholders in Persimmon are AXA and Vanguard. This isn't just fat cats getting fatter, its everyday people who invest in funds as part of their pension.
drainbrain said:
How do you know?
Because he was paid from the same payroll as me, and we discussed it after the event in the context of what he was going to do with the after tax amount.Edited by drainbrain on Saturday 16th December 20:29
I don’t really understand where people get the idea from that city bonuses in particular are to do with tax avoidance, they really aren’t.
sidicks said:
Seems quite likely that his friend told him. Why do you believe otherwise?
If there was a rout to avoid any, I doubt that there would be a conspiracy of silence around it.The idea that friends that drink together, back each other up at work, and hang out together in general would keep quiet about a tax loophole just makes no sense.
Just where has the perception come from that pay made to a UK employee can not be taxed fully?
We have no tax-free allowance, we can’t even fund our pensions.
And before someone tries to make the inevitable point, this isn’t a complaint, just a statement of fact.
drainbrain said:
My opinion on the topic is that the Persimmon CEO should be taxed to the nth degree.
One presumes you're either being taxed to the nth degree yourself, or are voluntarily gifting the balance. You're of course under no obligation to say, but would you mind revealing which is the case?TooMany2cvs said:
crankedup said:
It’s precisely this mega money bonus bonanza at the top of many listed businesses that is driving the so called ‘great divide’ and the emergence of Momemtom The only people who will pay for all of this madness is ordinary folk, most on PAYE. Corbyn and his sidekick have a foot in the door already.
Perhaps a statement from the financial benefactors demonstrating a little awareness would go a long way. Not holding my breath though for that to come along.
Persimmon turned over £3bn+.Perhaps a statement from the financial benefactors demonstrating a little awareness would go a long way. Not holding my breath though for that to come along.
They made £775m - that's 25% margin.
If they hadn't paid £100m bonus, that'd be £875m - 28% margin. But you'd be happier, right?
Each share paid £1.35 dividend, a total of £625m. If they'd distributed that extra £100m to shareholders, instead of as a bonus to the CEO, the dividend would have been £1.56 instead. Does that satisfy your sense of morality?
TooMany2cvs said:
drainbrain said:
My opinion on the topic is that the Persimmon CEO should be taxed to the nth degree. But my optional opinion is that the bonus should have been shared between every Persimmon employee given that the bonus does not directly relate to its recipient's sole performance.
Sounds like your opinion stems primarily from political preconceptions than from anything else.The CEO has a FAR greater effect on profitability and share price than a random site bricklayer or plumber do, and that's what the bonus rewards.
ExPat2B said:
I am a shareholder in Persimmon, I have no issue with the reward.
Ceo Jeff Fairburn joined in 2013.
Since then the share price has gone from 8 pounds up to highs of 28 pounds, the current Market Cap is 8.07 Billion pounds - that is a 350% increase.
That means the current executive team have added 5.7 billion pounds of value to the company - against the backdrop of brexit.
That is 5700 million pounds. 1/57 of that doesn't seem to outrageous to me.
People forget that the some of the biggest shareholders in Persimmon are AXA and Vanguard. This isn't just fat cats getting fatter, its everyday people who invest in funds as part of their pension.
Maybe they can reduce that profit a tiny little bit and fit some fCeo Jeff Fairburn joined in 2013.
Since then the share price has gone from 8 pounds up to highs of 28 pounds, the current Market Cap is 8.07 Billion pounds - that is a 350% increase.
That means the current executive team have added 5.7 billion pounds of value to the company - against the backdrop of brexit.
That is 5700 million pounds. 1/57 of that doesn't seem to outrageous to me.
People forget that the some of the biggest shareholders in Persimmon are AXA and Vanguard. This isn't just fat cats getting fatter, its everyday people who invest in funds as part of their pension.
king doorbells on the cess pits they are firing up all over the country!
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