Nasty crash in B’Ham

[TooMany2cvs]

dxg said:

Years back, there was supposed to be an EU initiative with embedded RFID chips and tamper-proof (i.e. they'd break if you tried to remove them) plates. But this was 6 or 7 years ago. I wonder what happened to that...

There were trials by an electronics manufacturer in NL a couple of years ago - http://www.rfidhy.com/european-study-paves-way-rfi...
DVLA were having a play as far back as 2006, with a trial with a number of police forces.

Nothing's ever come of it, not least because of the massive roadside infrastructure that'd be needed...

[Russian Troll Bot]

I've never understood why we don't do what many other countries do, and have metal plates only issued by the government. Would cut down on cloning and instantly stop stupidly spaced illegal plates.

[Tryke3]

Russian Troll Bot said:

I've never understood why we don't do what many other countries do, and have metal plates only issued by the government. Would cut down on cloning and instantly stop stupidly spaced illegal plates.

So you think we could get our "metal" plates at the same place where we get our tax disc from ? Not sure if ruski or stupid, think i would prefer ruski

[anonymous-user]

buggalugs said:

SHutchinson said:

buggalugs said:

In case anyone missed it, this accident was covered in an episode of Ambulance - sobering viewing. Starts at about 7:20

https://youtu.be/IK716LnLN7s?t=7m23s

That's really hard to watch. Those guys did a great job.

They did. The speed of the response was shocking to me. There’s a bit where there are tons of people on scene working away and it feels like it must have been hours, then the time check is 15 minutes since the 999 call. That blew my mind a little bit.

Nasty job, but perversely the biggest rush imaginable when responding / dealing.

Although I was mainly thinking about all the paramedics / firemen messing the scene up, so it seems old habits die hard.

[Nickyboy]

Russian Troll Bot said:

I've never understood why we don't do what many other countries do, and have metal plates only issued by the government. Would cut down on cloning and instantly stop stupidly spaced illegal plates.

I've always thought this, my father lives in the US, they have to get their plates from the local city office, nobody else can make them up. they are your plates, if you misbehave then your plates are withdrawn, they also have the insurance and annual licence fee on them

[Alucidnation]

ashleyman said:

LP670 said:

ashleyman said:

Digga said:

Countdown said:

Apologies in case I'm missing something but If they don't care about speed cameras why are they going to bother with cloned plates?

Cloned plates mean that, not only do they not have to pay the fines, they often also don't have to bother with other nuisances like MOT, tax or insurance. If you follow any of the police regional roads Twitter feeds, this is a recurrent theme.

The police can and will pull cars and prosecute where cloned plates are being used, but clearly, right now, it's too easy to do and there are too many who see the risks, downsides, are insufficient to deter them.

This is also one thing a lot of 'car enthusiasts' seem to not understand.

We all love our cars, we love to share photos of our cars online. If for example you have a car like a Golf R that are being used in crime, scum just need to search car forums for a car in the same colour and have some plates made up.

They then have the freedom to drive their stolen car around and as you say, everyone thinks it has tax, insurance and an MOT. It also means that the car is untraceable to the actual drivers. A friend of mine was victim to this last year when 'his' Golf R was used to rob a bank in Liverpool whilst he was asleep with his car on the drive in Surrey. He also had numerous speeding tickets.

When posting on forums or Facebook groups it's always worth hiding number plates.

Wouldnt it be much easier searching Auto Trader, Ebay, Gumtree than forums.....

Probably but how can they guarantee the vehicle will be insured and have road tax?

Much easier to look at photos on Facebook or forums for cars that will be legal.

Good point.

Better make sure i cover my plates next time i'm out on the road.

[Digga]

Apropos of the cloned plates, I saw a funny one on one of the police Twitter feeds. Some lowlife had cloned plates for his car (some God awful MPV stbox IIRC) but, unbeknownst to him, he'd used the registration number of a car with a police (wanted for offences) 'marker' on it for dealing. The police pulled him and he blew positive for drugs. Karma.

[TTmonkey]

Tryke3 said:

Russian Troll Bot said:

I've never understood why we don't do what many other countries do, and have metal plates only issued by the government. Would cut down on cloning and instantly stop stupidly spaced illegal plates.

So you think we could get our "metal" plates at the same place where we get our tax disc from ? Not sure if ruski or stupid, think i would prefer ruski

The government saved a fair few million getting rid of tax discs and the infrastructure around them.

However road tax fraud has since risen dramatically and most honest road users can no longer tell when someone’s vehicle has no tax or indeed insurance when you exchange ‘details’ after a minor road accident. You can now be given any old info at the road side and only find out its rubbish when you contact the alleged insurers of the vehicle.

At least with a visible road tax you could see the car has some kind of official documented detail.

[tannhauser]

Alucidnation said:

ashleyman said:

LP670 said:

ashleyman said:

Digga said:

Countdown said:

Apologies in case I'm missing something but If they don't care about speed cameras why are they going to bother with cloned plates?

Cloned plates mean that, not only do they not have to pay the fines, they often also don't have to bother with other nuisances like MOT, tax or insurance. If you follow any of the police regional roads Twitter feeds, this is a recurrent theme.

The police can and will pull cars and prosecute where cloned plates are being used, but clearly, right now, it's too easy to do and there are too many who see the risks, downsides, are insufficient to deter them.

This is also one thing a lot of 'car enthusiasts' seem to not understand.

We all love our cars, we love to share photos of our cars online. If for example you have a car like a Golf R that are being used in crime, scum just need to search car forums for a car in the same colour and have some plates made up.

They then have the freedom to drive their stolen car around and as you say, everyone thinks it has tax, insurance and an MOT. It also means that the car is untraceable to the actual drivers. A friend of mine was victim to this last year when 'his' Golf R was used to rob a bank in Liverpool whilst he was asleep with his car on the drive in Surrey. He also had numerous speeding tickets.

When posting on forums or Facebook groups it's always worth hiding number plates.

Wouldnt it be much easier searching Auto Trader, Ebay, Gumtree than forums.....

Probably but how can they guarantee the vehicle will be insured and have road tax?

Much easier to look at photos on Facebook or forums for cars that will be legal.

Good point.

Better make sure i cover my plates next time i'm out on the road.

Another fool who misses the point. It is so much easier looking for an identical car to clone online, than to wait out on the street to maybe see one pass by

[Alucidnation]

tannhauser said:

Alucidnation said:

ashleyman said:

LP670 said:

ashleyman said:

Digga said:

Countdown said:

Apologies in case I'm missing something but If they don't care about speed cameras why are they going to bother with cloned plates?

Cloned plates mean that, not only do they not have to pay the fines, they often also don't have to bother with other nuisances like MOT, tax or insurance. If you follow any of the police regional roads Twitter feeds, this is a recurrent theme.

The police can and will pull cars and prosecute where cloned plates are being used, but clearly, right now, it's too easy to do and there are too many who see the risks, downsides, are insufficient to deter them.

This is also one thing a lot of 'car enthusiasts' seem to not understand.

We all love our cars, we love to share photos of our cars online. If for example you have a car like a Golf R that are being used in crime, scum just need to search car forums for a car in the same colour and have some plates made up.

They then have the freedom to drive their stolen car around and as you say, everyone thinks it has tax, insurance and an MOT. It also means that the car is untraceable to the actual drivers. A friend of mine was victim to this last year when 'his' Golf R was used to rob a bank in Liverpool whilst he was asleep with his car on the drive in Surrey. He also had numerous speeding tickets.

When posting on forums or Facebook groups it's always worth hiding number plates.

Wouldnt it be much easier searching Auto Trader, Ebay, Gumtree than forums.....

Probably but how can they guarantee the vehicle will be insured and have road tax?

Much easier to look at photos on Facebook or forums for cars that will be legal.

Good point.

Better make sure i cover my plates next time i'm out on the road.

Another fool who misses the point. It is so much easier looking for an identical car to clone online, than to wait out on the street to maybe see one pass by

You ok sweetheart?

The crims will clone the plates from any car that is near enough a match, from whatever source.

If plates are covered on the internet, then they will use the real world.

Edited by Alucidnation on Tuesday 24th July 15:50

[markcoznottz]

Gareth79 said:

Digga said:

Countdown said:

Apologies in case I'm missing something but If they don't care about speed cameras why are they going to bother with cloned plates?

Cloned plates mean that, not only do they not have to pay the fines, they often also don't have to bother with other nuisances like MOT, tax or insurance. If you follow any of the police regional roads Twitter feeds, this is a recurrent theme.

The police can and will pull cars and prosecute where cloned plates are being used, but clearly, right now, it's too easy to do and there are too many who see the risks, downsides, are insufficient to deter them.

I assume that ANPR data isn't currently logged in any sort of way where it's feasible to run statistics to identify cloned vehicles. In theory if you know the location of the camera and the time, you can pull out a list of plates where it'd have been impossible for to have traveled to the other camera. That would mean either the plate was mis-read, or there are two vehicles with the same plates.

The crims soon realised with anpr that if they cloned a car from say Cornwall and used it in Manchester it was more probable for a stop. So they just stay local. I had my plates nicked and on the way to a job the cheeky drove past me one day without a care in the world in the same type of van with my old plates on!

[Muddle238]

Alucidnation said:

You ok sweetheart?

The crims will clone the plates from any car that is near enough a match, from whatever source.

If plates are covered on the internet, then they will use the real world.

Edited by Alucidnation on Tuesday 24th July 15:50

If the plates of a car are covered on the Internet, they'll just look for another one on the Internet with plates uncovered plates. I'm sure it's not a case of "oh the first car I found was a perfect match but it's plates were covered, so I'll have to go out and sit in a layby now until I see it for real", they'll simply press the back button in the browser and continue the search until they find a car with a plate displayed.

I always cover my plates up if I post pics on the internet. It's absolutely the right and the choice of the poster, I can't believe people are belittling others for doing so. What does it matter, unless of course you're trying to read the reg?

[TooMany2cvs]

Muddle238 said:

I always cover my plates up if I post pics on the internet. It's absolutely the right and the choice of the poster, I can't believe people are belittling others for doing so. What does it matter, unless of course you're trying to read the reg?

If you're trying to sell it, and I can't see the MOT history, it matters.

Anyway, cloners really don't give that much of a toss about matching the car the plate's coming off.

[55palfers]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/30/bi...

Another fatality in Brum.

Police chasing an A3 with 4 up which crashed into another car .

[Digga]

55palfers said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/30/bi...

Another fatality in Brum.

Police chasing an A3 with 4 up which crashed into another car .

Utter vermin, driving like that in a built-up area. Hope they have the book thrown at them.

[rattyuk2000]

Pity that the A3 driver wasn’t euthanised at the scene, instead of anesthetised into hospital.

[wjwren]

Another S3 crash. This time involving a Bentley & BMW. According to news the BMW was an innocent party, with her kids in the back who sadly died.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-4...

[Sa Calobra]

Let's roll out the racism again huh?

Car racing and crashing happens daily throughout the UK.

[anonymous-user]

He doesn't
Its just another crash in which 2 very young lives were wiped out and a family have to live with it. It seems those killed were simply passengers in a car with their mum.

[0ddball]

Sa Calobra said:

Let's roll out the racism again huh?

Let's jump on the defensive before anybody has actually said anything huh?

Reaching for your cards already?