First retail ‘name’ to pop off 2018

[hyphen]

Henners said:

hyphen said:

I went to one Screwfix recently where they had computer screens for pickups, put in your payment card and out pops the collection receipt.

Whereabouts are you? Thats sounds like a good step - pin check and you're done.

It was the Screwfix in Sutton, (Kimpston Park Way trading Estate with the Selco on it, of you know the area). I use about 3 or 4 and only that one so far.

[Henners]

hyphen said:

Eric Mc said:

If somebody doesn't know something, isn't it sensible that they ask questions?

They are basic stores on industrial estates with minimal staff. Their USP is not B&Q type customer service, it is to serve quick and simply.

Even pro's ask questions, but they were not created for the 'I have never done any diy, and have just turned up with out doing any thinking at all' type questions.

Different markets.

I think of ScrewFix as B&Q without the old bods there for help. You use SF and the like if you know what you want - their online review and Q&A set up is tailored to that too, minimal Qs in 'store'.

[tim0409]

Henners said:

I think of ScrewFix as B&Q without the old bods there for help. You use SF and the like if you know what you want - their online review and Q&A set up is tailored to that too, minimal Qs in 'store'.

I agree, if you want to ask questions and open stuff prior to purchase you are better off at BQ; in any case the staff at screwfix (for the most part) don't have any specialist knowledge of what they are selling. A few months ago I was waiting to get served and witnessed a couple asking the employee multiple questions about the "correct" consumer unit to purchase, which was a enlightening as she didn't have a clue (why would she?) but that didn't stop her trying to be helpful.

[Henners]

Yup, it’s basically the Argos model.

If you want to ask Qs, go to B&Q and pay a bit more for it.

[Gecko1978]

I really like Screfix wide range of stuff cheaper than other places order via app pick up in-store etc. When I have had a few questions they have been helpful. in comparison the other rival now owned by australian firm...shocking expensive an rubbish service though could just be my local one.

[Eric Mc]

hyphen said:

Eric Mc said:

If somebody doesn't know something, isn't it sensible that they ask questions?

They are basic stores on industrial estates with minimal staff. Their USP is not B&Q type customer service, it is to serve quick and simply.

Even pro's ask questions, but they were not created for the 'I have never done any diy, and have just turned up with out doing any thinking at all' type questions.

Different markets.

If a customer has a query, the retailer should have the manners to answer it. If I as a business am willing to take money from a customer, I am obliged to help them if necessary.

What is a Screwfix sales person supposed to do if asked a question, say "Sorry sir, the sale price is too cheap to allow me to answer your question".

Or say, true PH style, "Bog off cretin, you shouldn't be here in the first place. We only serve people who we think are smart enough to know what they are buying".

[mcdjl]

Eric Mc said:

hyphen said:

Eric Mc said:

If somebody doesn't know something, isn't it sensible that they ask questions?

They are basic stores on industrial estates with minimal staff. Their USP is not B&Q type customer service, it is to serve quick and simply.

Even pro's ask questions, but they were not created for the 'I have never done any diy, and have just turned up with out doing any thinking at all' type questions.

Different markets.

If a customer has a query, the retailer should have the manners to answer it. If I as a business am willing to take money from a customer, I am obliged to help them if necessary.

What is a Screwfix sales person supposed to do if asked a question, say "Sorry sir, the sale price is too cheap to allow me to answer your question".

Or say, true PH style, "Bog off cretin, you shouldn't be here in the first place. We only serve people who we think are smart enough to know what they are buying".

As a spotty youf i worked in a Woolworths on Saturdays often slightly worse for wear. I was often asked about how big plants would grow/where to plant them, the sum of my knowledge consisted of reading the label to the person asking the question. They would usually thank me for that though. Beyond what the label said my answer was 'sorry i don't know' with the subtext of go find a garden center. Would i expect a income tax accountant to give the best inheritance tax advice, no, beyond a point i'd expect to be sent the way of the right specialist.

[Eric Mc]

At the basic level of retail, be at least courteous.

[Henners]

Eric have you used ScrewFix at all?

[Eric Mc]

Henners said:

Eric have you used ScrewFix at all?

Yes - quite a few times, and I have found the staff to be fine - not all all rude or discourteous.

[Henners]

Eric Mc said:

Henners said:

Eric have you used ScrewFix at all?

Yes - quite a few times, and I have found the staff to be fine - not all all rude or discourteous.

Then you’ll have seen the differing business model and that they aren’t designed to deal with very amateur questions - they’re tailored to those that have an idea what they need, and the customers are ‘rewarded’ with a cheaper price.

I’ve seen them on occasion answer I don’t know to a question, their job isn’t to advise it’s basically to be the DIY/trade version of Argos.

The comparison to B&Q is a very good one as they’re deliberately differentiated, well I hope so or Kingfisher have some problems

I can’t see anyone having said the staff are rude.

[Eric Mc]

So, not being able to help customers is good for trade?

We'll see how that works out.

[mcdjl]

Eric Mc said:

So, not being able to help customers is good for trade?

We'll see how that works out.

I'm guessing fairly well. My local Screwfix and B&Q are next to each other. One has a car park for 10 vehicles and is at most half full, the other for 300 and is generally half full.

[Eric Mc]

mcdjl said:

Eric Mc said:

So, not being able to help customers is good for trade?

We'll see how that works out.

I'm guessing fairly well. My local Screwfix and B&Q are next to each other. One has a car park for 10 vehicles and is at most half full, the other for 300 and is generally half full.

We shall see. It takes time for negative attitudes to bring a brand down.

[Henners]

Eric Mc said:

So, not being able to help customers is good for trade?

We'll see how that works out.

YoY towards ScrewFix, it would appear. B&Q have been plodding for a while.



The trouble with B&Q and the ‘advice’ model is that if you’re doing anything big yourself, the costs often don’t stack up, B&Q seem to float in the middle ground of being high price and relying on you needing something at short notice - a bit like Maplin...

[skwdenyer]

There are some big trends in play in the UK DIY market IMHO.

Labour is pretty cheap right now. The cash-in-hand economy is huge. In consequence, it is (at least in cities) very easy to get stuff done about your house pretty cheaply. That hits DIY stores. People don't mind cash-in-hand (and often don't even recognise when they're doing it - the internet gets in the way with PayPal and whatnot) because VAT is irrecoverable...

Cheap labour also means delivery of stuff is cheap - I can get all my building materials delivered to my door. Which also saves me having to buy a roof rack, get pulled by over-zealous plod for a long load, invalidate my insurance (yes, I had to declare the roof rack on my Land Rover as a modification, believe it or not), and so on.

People don't "fix" stuff or "change" stuff - too dangerous, too much risk, etc., etc.

The proportion of single people is much higher than it was. Strip out those too old to work on their houses and you find a larger number of people who frankly are not going to be getting into DIY.

Millenials are already eschewing "stuff" - that hits DIY stores.

The internet is way more of a game-changer than people really grasp - why on earth would I want to "go shopping" at the weekend when instead I can order online, have delivered to my door, and do something else with my life instead? By shopping online, I can take my son for a day out in the time I saved by not shopping using the money I saved by shopping online.

Big stores are great for browsing. Great for picking up ideas ("oh, that's a great tool - I'll see how much it will cost me online"). But not for buying - because competition is too great.

Business rates are ludicrous. The differential between A1 and B1 and B8 is insane. If you open an Argos-type operation, you get the majority of it re-rated as B8 (storage/wharehouse) and save a fortune. A mail order fulfilment centre in place of a B&Q will pay (in some areas) 80%+ less business rates for the same building in the same location.

And all of that is before we get to the economy. The real cost of living has skyrocketed (inflation figures are comedic, because they don't reflect real costs). Wages have stagnated. Credit has tightened. Credit criteria have toughened. There's no fat left on the mean - fat that can be spent on shopping.

The cultural shift towards not owning stuff is very real. Just as a single datapoint, it is enough to be worth Volvo getting in on the act: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDy8U_xyGNo - "By not owning things, you’re not owned by things"

If you can't take out endless credit leveraged off of your salary, then instead you can take on subscription-based offerings leveraged off of your salary.

There's no room there for DIY stores. And, perhaps, there's no room there for most stores...

[Henners]

A good point you refer to which has wide repercussions is the generational change.

c20 years ago there was a lot of spending power with those who were midlife when the internet came about, as time passes and they shuffle off, the proportion of the population who have grown up with the internet and importantly have spending power increases - we’ll probably see more and more of the dumb retailers fade away.

Why go kitchen or bathroom shopping when you can use AR to model and walk in the room!

Banking is a few years ahead of the high street in general in that they’re actively pushing people online and closing branches, people moan but they’re more and more becoming the minority - as they die off, being blunt.

[anonymous-user]

skwdenyer said:

There are some big trends in play in the UK DIY market IMHO.

Labour is pretty cheap right now. The cash-in-hand economy is huge. In consequence, it is (at least in cities) very easy to get stuff done about your house pretty cheaply. That hits DIY stores. People don't mind cash-in-hand (and often don't even recognise when they're doing it - the internet gets in the way with PayPal and whatnot) because VAT is irrecoverable...

Cheap labour also means delivery of stuff is cheap - I can get all my building materials delivered to my door. Which also saves me having to buy a roof rack, get pulled by over-zealous plod for a long load, invalidate my insurance (yes, I had to declare the roof rack on my Land Rover as a modification, believe it or not), and so on.

People don't "fix" stuff or "change" stuff - too dangerous, too much risk, etc., etc.

The proportion of single people is much higher than it was. Strip out those too old to work on their houses and you find a larger number of people who frankly are not going to be getting into DIY.

Millenials are already eschewing "stuff" - that hits DIY stores.

The internet is way more of a game-changer than people really grasp - why on earth would I want to "go shopping" at the weekend when instead I can order online, have delivered to my door, and do something else with my life instead? By shopping online, I can take my son for a day out in the time I saved by not shopping using the money I saved by shopping online.

Big stores are great for browsing. Great for picking up ideas ("oh, that's a great tool - I'll see how much it will cost me online"). But not for buying - because competition is too great.

Business rates are ludicrous. The differential between A1 and B1 and B8 is insane. If you open an Argos-type operation, you get the majority of it re-rated as B8 (storage/wharehouse) and save a fortune. A mail order fulfilment centre in place of a B&Q will pay (in some areas) 80%+ less business rates for the same building in the same location.

And all of that is before we get to the economy. The real cost of living has skyrocketed (inflation figures are comedic, because they don't reflect real costs). Wages have stagnated. Credit has tightened. Credit criteria have toughened. There's no fat left on the mean - fat that can be spent on shopping.

The cultural shift towards not owning stuff is very real. Just as a single datapoint, it is enough to be worth Volvo getting in on the act: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDy8U_xyGNo - "By not owning things, you’re not owned by things"

If you can't take out endless credit leveraged off of your salary, then instead you can take on subscription-based offerings leveraged off of your salary.

There's no room there for DIY stores. And, perhaps, there's no room there for most stores...

One of the best posts in the whole thread.

[skwdenyer]

Henners said:

A good point you refer to which has wide repercussions is the generational change.

c20 years ago there was a lot of spending power with those who were midlife when the internet came about, as time passes and they shuffle off, the proportion of the population who have grown up with the internet and importantly have spending power increases - we’ll probably see more and more of the dumb retailers fade away.

Why go kitchen or bathroom shopping when you can use AR to model and walk in the room!

Banking is a few years ahead of the high street in general in that they’re actively pushing people online and closing branches, people moan but they’re more and more becoming the minority - as they die off, being blunt.

But what spending power? Isn't that just the illusion?

Median family wages are propped up by benefits now.

Close to 50% of working families claim or are entitled to claim tax credits
Most housing benefit / universal credit claims are from working families

Think about that for a moment. If your income is reliant upon tax credits - benefits - how does that affect your life? Your spending habits? Your sense of prosperity. In most cases, you can't borrow against those benefits, so you just more and more in thrall to the state, whilst costs of living go up and up. Benefits are being trimmed. The state is causing a net reduction in earnings.

Do you want to go out and spend money? Your rent will probably rise (if you rent). If you have a mortgage, there's always the threat of rate rises, and you can't move house to a larger one in the way you used to.

There are some profound structural problems with the UK economy. One of the many effects of those is this - inevitable - impact upon discretionary spending.

The earlier poster who believed that the economy should have been allowed to crash in 2008 has my vote. It was a once-in-a-lifetime consequence-free chance for politicians to allow things to crash (especially property) whilst being able to blame others. It wasn't taken - instead we continued this mad game of propping-up an illusion of prosperity.

And now re reap what we have sown, I'm afraid.

[dandarez]

skwdenyer said:

Henners said:

A good point you refer to which has wide repercussions is the generational change.

c20 years ago there was a lot of spending power with those who were midlife when the internet came about, as time passes and they shuffle off, the proportion of the population who have grown up with the internet and importantly have spending power increases - we’ll probably see more and more of the dumb retailers fade away.

Why go kitchen or bathroom shopping when you can use AR to model and walk in the room!

Banking is a few years ahead of the high street in general in that they’re actively pushing people online and closing branches, people moan but they’re more and more becoming the minority - as they die off, being blunt.

But what spending power? Isn't that just the illusion?

Median family wages are propped up by benefits now.

Close to 50% of working families claim or are entitled to claim tax credits
Most housing benefit / universal credit claims are from working families

Think about that for a moment. If your income is reliant upon tax credits - benefits - how does that affect your life? Your spending habits? Your sense of prosperity. In most cases, you can't borrow against those benefits, so you just more and more in thrall to the state, whilst costs of living go up and up. Benefits are being trimmed. The state is causing a net reduction in earnings.

Do you want to go out and spend money? Your rent will probably rise (if you rent). If you have a mortgage, there's always the threat of rate rises, and you can't move house to a larger one in the way you used to.

There are some profound structural problems with the UK economy. One of the many effects of those is this - inevitable - impact upon discretionary spending.

The earlier poster who believed that the economy should have been allowed to crash in 2008 has my vote. It was a once-in-a-lifetime consequence-free chance for politicians to allow things to crash (especially property) whilst being able to blame others. It wasn't taken - instead we continued this mad game of propping-up an illusion of prosperity.

And now re reap what we have sown, I'm afraid.

I'm with you on this.

Plus Henners ageist remark about the likes of people who were midlife on the birth of the internet will 'shuffle off'.

Obviously he not looked around at 'his' own generation? Probably because they sit on their asses all day, and will continue to do so.

The obesity crisis among a very large proportion of them I see, I would suggest that they are 'shuffling' already. That's the ones who can still see their feet!