The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread
Discussion
Drawweight said:
NMNeil said:
Boom78 said:
This thread has gone mental, it was started because of the shocking gun crime in the states, waves of mass killings of innocents and a chance to debate how to stop it all, now all of sudden it’s a bunch of gun boner nuts showing off their military grade guns, fave rounds choices and ‘whataboutism’. Bunch of high grade walts! Bonkers!!
And how many postings do we have on PH showing high performance cars, giving advice on breaking the law and making the already ridiculously fast cars even faster?Don't see any debates on how to stop that madness.
My bow is perfectly capable of killing in the wrong hands yet I’m not called a make believe Robin Hood.
I spend money trying and buying different bows/equipment to improve my shooting and heighten my enjoyment.
I can’t see the difference between buying better bows and better guns as long as the end result is a bigger enjoyment factor.
Byker28i said:
A federal appeals court on Wednesday ruled that states may restrict the open carrying of guns in public, a major ruling that is certain to be appealed to a US Supreme Court hostile to limits on the Second Amendment right to bear arms.
The 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals in a 7-4 ruling upheld Hawaii's limits on openly carrying firearms in public, rejecting a challenge from Hawaii resident George Young, who had sued the state for denying his bid to carry a handgun outside the home.
"There is no right to carry arms openly in public; nor is any such right within the scope of the Second Amendment," Judge Jay Bybee, a nominee of George W. Bush, wrote in the majority opinion.
The ruling comes at a time of heightened national discussion over the scope of the Second Amendment following mass shootings in Colorado and Atlanta this month. The White House is weighing whether to issue a number of gun safety measures through executive action even as they publicly press Congress to move ahead on legislation aimed at curbing violence.
Hawaii's law specifically bans residents from openly carrying firearms if they don't have a license to do so. Licenses are given only to residents who can prove they need a firearm because of "reason to fear injury" to "person or property."
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/24/politics/states...
It's a long read but the ruling is here:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/24/politics/read-9...
They need to make up their mind. From 3 years ago.The 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals in a 7-4 ruling upheld Hawaii's limits on openly carrying firearms in public, rejecting a challenge from Hawaii resident George Young, who had sued the state for denying his bid to carry a handgun outside the home.
"There is no right to carry arms openly in public; nor is any such right within the scope of the Second Amendment," Judge Jay Bybee, a nominee of George W. Bush, wrote in the majority opinion.
The ruling comes at a time of heightened national discussion over the scope of the Second Amendment following mass shootings in Colorado and Atlanta this month. The White House is weighing whether to issue a number of gun safety measures through executive action even as they publicly press Congress to move ahead on legislation aimed at curbing violence.
Hawaii's law specifically bans residents from openly carrying firearms if they don't have a license to do so. Licenses are given only to residents who can prove they need a firearm because of "reason to fear injury" to "person or property."
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/24/politics/states...
It's a long read but the ruling is here:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/24/politics/read-9...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns-court-...
Firearms are not the issue.
Many people need firearms, many jobs revolve around the ability to own / use firearms, hunting, shooting, training, repairs, sales, ammo, etc.
People also use firearms recreationally in the UK and the USA.
Firearms are legal to own in the UK, there is obviously a huge level of control, even for a Shotgun you need an interview, references, etc.
How has the legal ownership of a firearm in the UK ever affected your life?
In 2019 there were 10000 firearm offences in the UK, 33 of which were fatal, this includes seizure, etc etc.
Firearms in this country also includes air rifles over 12 ft/lb iirc.
It’s a culture and mentality issue in the USA you will never sway enough of the population to support and implement a level of rigorous control like you see in the UK.
Many people need firearms, many jobs revolve around the ability to own / use firearms, hunting, shooting, training, repairs, sales, ammo, etc.
People also use firearms recreationally in the UK and the USA.
Firearms are legal to own in the UK, there is obviously a huge level of control, even for a Shotgun you need an interview, references, etc.
How has the legal ownership of a firearm in the UK ever affected your life?
In 2019 there were 10000 firearm offences in the UK, 33 of which were fatal, this includes seizure, etc etc.
Firearms in this country also includes air rifles over 12 ft/lb iirc.
It’s a culture and mentality issue in the USA you will never sway enough of the population to support and implement a level of rigorous control like you see in the UK.
HD Adam said:
Byker28i said:
HD Adam said:
Gweeds said:
red_slr said:
You mean all guns? To ban one type of gun is not going to help.
If it was up to me all guns. But the number of mass shootings that involve AR15's specifically is insane. Why the f
k anyone needs one of those around the house is beyond me. What do you hunt and which bit of the US are you in. Do you use the 5.56mm receiver and how do you find the effective range? I've spoken to people who say its good for small games but at around 150 yards. I know someone whose converted his to take the larger rounds. Which do you use and do you find any limitations?
My wife's cousin has some land near San Antonio a few hours away and we hunt hogs there.
Feral Hogs are classed as a pest here & breed uncontrollably in the wild.
They are very destructive & quite dangerous if cornered or with their young,
I have an AR-15 in 5.56/.223.
It's very light, has 30 round magazines & FMJ ammo is cheap to practice with.
I hunt with dedicated hollow point rounds made for hogs or deer.
With Hogs, it's all about the shot placement so 100/150 yards is acceptable because you want a fairly instant kill, not a wounded animal running off or just pissed off coming at you.
I also carry a Glock19 in 9mm with hollow points just in case one comes out of the brush at you close up or you need to dispatch a fallen hog.
I'd just like to add that all the hogs get processed & eaten.
I don't shoot animals for sport or trophies.
The meat is excellent & not as fatty as regular piggies.
Normally we see hogs around 150lbs but there's some monsters out there and if you see one of these close up, you'd better have a gun that can see it off.
Not me.
jdw100 said:
Dagnir said:
You've gone on a massive tangent/rant about good guys and bad guys but from I can see, he didn't mention the character of the ex-military at all.
He was just pointing out that they are trained and have an interest in them due to their past.
Slow down. Your fervour is taking over control of your fingers.
It wasn’t supposed to all be in response to his comment, sorry.He was just pointing out that they are trained and have an interest in them due to their past.
Slow down. Your fervour is taking over control of your fingers.
I went out for a coffee then lunch and came back to this and banged on, forgetting the original post. Blame caffeine and a lychee martini.
My comment was in response to the comment that he was ok with trained military using them. They don't suddenly become un-trained on leaving the services.
It's all BS though; we've all seen the video of the 'trained' police officer shooting himself in the leg.
Lychee Martini appeals greatly.....
Boom78 said:
I haven’t whinged, just asked for justification as to why private citizens need guns? Simple question deflected at every turn with references to fast cars, bad guys, responsible etc. Gangs are a small proportion of the killings by guns in the states with lots of legal guns owners causing the trouble whether it’s beef with someone or jilted ex/employee or plain racist, I’m sure the shooter in Vegas was responsible until he decided to blast off thousands of rounds with his bump stock rifles at innocent people.
Straight question, why do own/want a gun? Insecure? Macho? Waltism? Technical? Ol’boy feeling?
What is it? Simple question.
An honest answer.Straight question, why do own/want a gun? Insecure? Macho? Waltism? Technical? Ol’boy feeling?
What is it? Simple question.
While living in the UK there was a mystique about guns, bought about by the simple fact that they were illegal to own. I moved to the US and was able to simply walk into a gun store, fill out a form, and if given the all clear could buy any gun they had for sale, and I did and now have quite a collection.
A couple of analogies. Because of the illegality of weed in the UK a fair number of Brits would visit the Amsterdam coffee shops and get stupid stoned. When an ordinary normally safe motorist gets onto an Autobahn they would drive like a madman, because both examples are legal there, but not in the UK..
It may be a human trait, but if you are suddenly allowed to buy or do something that was illegal, you tend to overdo it.
Guns are part of America, and that has never changed, in fact if the first European invaders didn't have guns, America would not even exist as we know it.
What has changed is the people themselves, no idea why, but they seem to breed them really stupid lately on both sides of the pond.
Maybe it's social media that's to blame. Andy Warhol once said "In the future everybody will be world famous for fifteen minutes."
The bad part is that desire for fame often involves committing crimes with a "Look at me everyone" attitude.
Examples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84yv-uH2jsY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qsVyZVCUgs
jimmyjimjim said:
I wonder if the Democrats are saying to themselves 'maybe....if we'd not blocked everything ourselves...they might be a little bit more co-operative?'
Probably not. It's very partisan right now.
Not the right thread, but they didn't. See the $600 relief bill, passed despite all the nusances they addedProbably not. It's very partisan right now.
Fedup
@inpursesuit101
Replying to @JohnFugelsang and @diatribestress
Weird how there was no mass shooting during President Trump 4 yrs.
Weird how they ignore
11/17 - 26 killed in Sutherland Springs, TX
2/18- 17 killed in Parkland, FL
5/18- 10 killed in Santa Fe, Texas.
10/18- 11 killed at synagogue in Pittsburgh, PA
11/18- 12 killed in Thousand Oaks CA
5/19 12 killed in Virginia Beach VA
8/19 22 killed in El Paso TX
andy_s said:
Petrus1983 said:
andy_s said:
Yes - but you’ll need to wait a moment as I’m at work. 
jimmyjimjim said:
jdw100 said:
Dagnir said:
You've gone on a massive tangent/rant about good guys and bad guys but from I can see, he didn't mention the character of the ex-military at all.
He was just pointing out that they are trained and have an interest in them due to their past.
Slow down. Your fervour is taking over control of your fingers.
It wasn’t supposed to all be in response to his comment, sorry.He was just pointing out that they are trained and have an interest in them due to their past.
Slow down. Your fervour is taking over control of your fingers.
I went out for a coffee then lunch and came back to this and banged on, forgetting the original post. Blame caffeine and a lychee martini.
My comment was in response to the comment that he was ok with trained military using them. They don't suddenly become un-trained on leaving the services.
It's all BS though; we've all seen the video of the 'trained' police officer shooting himself in the leg.
Lychee Martini appeals greatly.....
I totally understand your point. I guess mine was based on the America viewpoint that service personnel are ‘heroes’. Thank you for your service....
I did see comments last night in media from USA.
A summary of one was: this was the fault of restrictive laws; so no one in the supermarket had a gun to defend the shoppers.
If it had been a conservative Christian church then, as 25% of worshipers bring guns to church a shooter would have been neutralised quickly.
Think this was in Time or similar publication.
I think that someone only needs to read that back to realise how bonkers that is on many levels.
I went to supermarket this morning as I have in many countries....never thought I should strap on a handgun.
Yet, a lot of Americans deny living in fear. That is fear.
Equally, I know the Old Testament is all about killing anyone that disagrees with you, taking children as sex slaves etc etc...but I’m pretty certain that the New Testament was (in principal) probably less in favour of worshipping Jesus armed to the teeth with pistols...and itching to/fantasizing about killing an intruder.I may be wrong.
Byker28i said:
Fedup
@inpursesuit101
Replying to @JohnFugelsang and @diatribestress
Weird how there was no mass shooting during President Trump 4 yrs.
Weird how they ignore
11/17 - 26 killed in Sutherland Springs, TX
2/18- 17 killed in Parkland, FL
5/18- 10 killed in Santa Fe, Texas.
10/18- 11 killed at synagogue in Pittsburgh, PA
11/18- 12 killed in Thousand Oaks CA
5/19 12 killed in Virginia Beach VA
8/19 22 killed in El Paso TX
10/17 - 61 killed in Las Vegas, NV@inpursesuit101
Replying to @JohnFugelsang and @diatribestress
Weird how there was no mass shooting during President Trump 4 yrs.
Weird how they ignore
11/17 - 26 killed in Sutherland Springs, TX
2/18- 17 killed in Parkland, FL
5/18- 10 killed in Santa Fe, Texas.
10/18- 11 killed at synagogue in Pittsburgh, PA
11/18- 12 killed in Thousand Oaks CA
5/19 12 killed in Virginia Beach VA
8/19 22 killed in El Paso TX
Weird how whilst making such a point he seemingly just forgot about the deadliest mass shooting in US history?!
jdw100 said:
I don’t usually drink - but my wife had one when we at dinner the night before. I was out with a friend for lunch and thought ‘sod it, why not?’
I totally understand your point. I guess mine was based on the America viewpoint that service personnel are ‘heroes’. Thank you for your service....
I did see comments last night in media from USA.
A summary of one was: this was the fault of restrictive laws; so no one in the supermarket had a gun to defend the shoppers.
If it had been a conservative Christian church then, as 25% of worshipers bring guns to church a shooter would have been neutralised quickly.
Think this was in Time or similar publication.
I think that someone only needs to read that back to realise how bonkers that is on many levels.
I went to supermarket this morning as I have in many countries....never thought I should strap on a handgun.
Yet, a lot of Americans deny living in fear. That is fear.
Equally, I know the Old Testament is all about killing anyone that disagrees with you, taking children as sex slaves etc etc...but I’m pretty certain that the New Testament was (in principal) probably less in favour of worshipping Jesus armed to the teeth with pistols...and itching to/fantasizing about killing an intruder.I may be wrong.
Your mistake is assuming that all Americans are this stereotypical religious simpleton living in fear, with a penchant for the “good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun” mantra.I totally understand your point. I guess mine was based on the America viewpoint that service personnel are ‘heroes’. Thank you for your service....
I did see comments last night in media from USA.
A summary of one was: this was the fault of restrictive laws; so no one in the supermarket had a gun to defend the shoppers.
If it had been a conservative Christian church then, as 25% of worshipers bring guns to church a shooter would have been neutralised quickly.
Think this was in Time or similar publication.
I think that someone only needs to read that back to realise how bonkers that is on many levels.
I went to supermarket this morning as I have in many countries....never thought I should strap on a handgun.
Yet, a lot of Americans deny living in fear. That is fear.
Equally, I know the Old Testament is all about killing anyone that disagrees with you, taking children as sex slaves etc etc...but I’m pretty certain that the New Testament was (in principal) probably less in favour of worshipping Jesus armed to the teeth with pistols...and itching to/fantasizing about killing an intruder.I may be wrong.
It’s actually a relatively small percentage of the population who are like this; a proportion broadly inline with where UKIPers are in the UK. Certainty a vocal presence, with some valid points, but not actually representative of the country as a whole.
Edited by dvs_dave on Friday 26th March 05:26
dvs_dave said:
Your mistake is assuming that all Americans are religious simpletons living in fear, with a penchant for the “good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun” mantra.
It’s actually only a small percentage of the population who are like this; probably a similar proportion to the extreme right loons that are peppered throughout the UK society. Certainly there and vocal, but by no means representative of the whole country.
iIt’s actually only a small percentage of the population who are like this; probably a similar proportion to the extreme right loons that are peppered throughout the UK society. Certainly there and vocal, but by no means representative of the whole country.
I’ve met many.
Some bright guys in my last company (global constancy) MBA, successful, family men....not red-neck in the slightest. Carried weapons to office in Florida. Moaned they couldn’t when at a company meeting - dinner in a museum in Chicago. Similar when I hosted them in London.
Similar with senior KPMG chaps in Dallas - a lot of business done on a Sunday in church and a lot of guns carried. I went to the lunch after church - lovely families and good food.
Manufacturing Director for large Pharma - car stolen with two handguns in the glovebox.
Visit with a colleague to a site in Carolina (I think it was) he surprised me by handing in a gun to security on reception...I had no idea he had it on him.
I don’t really think Ive ever met a proper redneck..?
People carrying pistols on hip in a mall in Phoenix not under jackets: that was an eye-opener. Its a mall, not Syria.
Etc etc...
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