The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread
Discussion
djc206 said:
14 injured on E 6th St Austin TX. It’s their equivalent of Bourbon Street so would have been heaving.
Four murdered in Canada.Sorry, I missed that it didn't involve a gun.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/07/world/canada/mu...
Six murdered in China.
Damn, again no gun involved. Sorry I need to read these thing a bit closer.
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/police-china-a...
HM-2 said:
dvs_dave said:
It’s a problem compared to places like the UK
It's a problem compared to everywhere. Literally nowhere within the developed world has this problem.dvs_dave said:
This thread has just become a cycle of how many different ways that can be said accompanied by equally glib and repetitive solutions
I have literally no idea what your on about; your perception of this thread versus the actual content of it seem to differ wildly.dvs_dave said:
The Japanese comparison is interesting as the relative difference in murder rate (not mass shooting as that’s a specifically US issue) is similar. What is Japan doing that the UK isn’t resulting in such a low comparative rate?
The simple answer is societal factors. Overall crime rates in Japan are vastly lower than those pretty much anywhere else in the developed world. This, amongst s myriad of other reasons, is why it offers a relatively useless point of comparison. It's essentially like saying "Titan and the moon both orbit planets, why are they so different?".A: "Hey, the US really seems to have an issue with high murder rates that other comparable countries don't exhibit, what's up with that?"
b: "Well the UK has a higher murder rate than Japan so there"
It's the most transparent and inept attempt deflection attempt.
dvs_dave said:
Surely their situation is what everyone should be striving for, or is the current UK murder rate at an “acceptable” level because it’s better than it is in the US, which is as different to the UK as Japan is to the UK.
Literally nobody has said or suggested the UK murder rate is "acceptable" and I have no idea how you could have possibly interpreted such. You're so busy trying to spin false "country X versus country Y" narratives you can't even grasp your own point anymore, let alone anyone rises.Edited by HM-2 on Saturday 12th June 22:29
The only thing you want to hear is “The USA has a mass shooting problem, the UK doesn’t, nothing else is relevant”.
Ok, cool, no s
t. Great debate. 
dvs_dave said:
HM-2 said:
dvs_dave said:
It’s a problem compared to places like the UK
It's a problem compared to everywhere. Literally nowhere within the developed world has this problem.dvs_dave said:
This thread has just become a cycle of how many different ways that can be said accompanied by equally glib and repetitive solutions
I have literally no idea what your on about; your perception of this thread versus the actual content of it seem to differ wildly.dvs_dave said:
The Japanese comparison is interesting as the relative difference in murder rate (not mass shooting as that’s a specifically US issue) is similar. What is Japan doing that the UK isn’t resulting in such a low comparative rate?
The simple answer is societal factors. Overall crime rates in Japan are vastly lower than those pretty much anywhere else in the developed world. This, amongst s myriad of other reasons, is why it offers a relatively useless point of comparison. It's essentially like saying "Titan and the moon both orbit planets, why are they so different?".A: "Hey, the US really seems to have an issue with high murder rates that other comparable countries don't exhibit, what's up with that?"
b: "Well the UK has a higher murder rate than Japan so there"
It's the most transparent and inept attempt deflection attempt.
dvs_dave said:
Surely their situation is what everyone should be striving for, or is the current UK murder rate at an “acceptable” level because it’s better than it is in the US, which is as different to the UK as Japan is to the UK.
Literally nobody has said or suggested the UK murder rate is "acceptable" and I have no idea how you could have possibly interpreted such. You're so busy trying to spin false "country X versus country Y" narratives you can't even grasp your own point anymore, let alone anyone rises.Edited by HM-2 on Saturday 12th June 22:29
The only thing you want to hear is “The USA has a mass shooting problem, the UK doesn’t, nothing else is relevant”.
Ok, cool, no s
t. Great debate. You criticise the previous poster for breaking down your straw man arguments, factually, why?
As a UK firearm owner it’s an embarrassment to be associated, in any way shape or form with the cretinous NRA / Guns and Ammo reading idiots.
IIRC you are also a UK firearm owner (from the shooting thread), why so keen to defend our feckless brethren? They shouldn’t be allowed a spud gun.
Edited by Lord.Vader on Sunday 13th June 01:19
Lord.Vader said:
Why are you so keen to defend the USA? The country is a fu**ing joke with mass shootings taking place on a weekly basis. Or how about Chicago … ?
You criticise the previous poster for breaking down your straw man arguments, factually, why?
As a UK firearm owner it’s an embarrassment to be associated, in any way shape or form with the cretinous NRA / Guns and Ammo reading idiots.
IIRC you are also a UK firearm owner (from the shooting thread), why so keen to defend our feckless brethren? They shouldn’t be allowed a spud gun.
Great, another frothing USA hate monger jumping on anyone not towing the USA hate line. And I’m getting a hard time for pointing out the continued anti-US sentiment. This thread really is a cess pool. Sheesh.You criticise the previous poster for breaking down your straw man arguments, factually, why?
As a UK firearm owner it’s an embarrassment to be associated, in any way shape or form with the cretinous NRA / Guns and Ammo reading idiots.
IIRC you are also a UK firearm owner (from the shooting thread), why so keen to defend our feckless brethren? They shouldn’t be allowed a spud gun.
Edited by Lord.Vader on Sunday 13th June 01:19
FWIW, I’m an expat living in (central) Chicago, and I don’t own a firearm, nor feel the need to. What’s your relevant first hand experience, other than what your biased echo chamber newsfeed forces down your blinkered parochial throat.
dvs_dave said:
Lord.Vader said:
Why are you so keen to defend the USA? The country is a fu**ing joke with mass shootings taking place on a weekly basis. Or how about Chicago … ?
You criticise the previous poster for breaking down your straw man arguments, factually, why?
As a UK firearm owner it’s an embarrassment to be associated, in any way shape or form with the cretinous NRA / Guns and Ammo reading idiots.
IIRC you are also a UK firearm owner (from the shooting thread), why so keen to defend our feckless brethren? They shouldn’t be allowed a spud gun.
Great, another frothing USA hate monger jumping on anyone not towing the USA hate line. And I’m getting a hard time for pointing out the continued anti-US sentiment. This thread really is a cess pool. Sheesh.You criticise the previous poster for breaking down your straw man arguments, factually, why?
As a UK firearm owner it’s an embarrassment to be associated, in any way shape or form with the cretinous NRA / Guns and Ammo reading idiots.
IIRC you are also a UK firearm owner (from the shooting thread), why so keen to defend our feckless brethren? They shouldn’t be allowed a spud gun.
Edited by Lord.Vader on Sunday 13th June 01:19
FWIW, I’m an expat living in (central) Chicago, and I don’t own a firearm, nor feel the need to. What’s your relevant first hand experience, other than what your biased echo chamber newsfeed forces down your blinkered parochial throat.
Whether it's because of the ready availability of them, the lack of respect for what a gun can do, or the attitude of the gravy seal types (dressing in tactical gear and wandering around with guns because they're "patriots") I don't know. Probably a combination of all 3 and more.
Personally, I've spent several months in various parts of the USA, from Boston, through Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Oregon to Washington State (and a few others too) and love spending time in the country. I was due to be back in Atlanta and visiting Texas for the first time this August, but that's been cancelled for obvious reasons.
I've encountered a huge range of views on guns while out there too, from some who hate them and wouldn't have one in the house, through to competition shooters and serious hunters. Was even supposed to go out hunting on one trip, but sadly that got cancelled due to bad weather.
None of them own AR15s or similar looking guns and the competition shooter actively avoids anyone at the range he uses who owns one. His view is that they're bought by people who want to look tough but often don't know how to use them properly.
One of the hunters has said they're only used by people who don't know how to shoot and so have to rely on quantity of shots not quality
Right, but where do we take the discussion?
Just seems there’s nothing more worth discussing as it’s all been said 100 times already, and anything that doesn’t tow the “USA is a fked up gun-crime riddled sthole, they deserve it, I’m alright Jack working remote as an IT contractor in my sleepy Surrey village ” line is thrown back in the face of everyone contributing who actually knows different because, you know, they live here, and actually know different.
Just seems there’s nothing more worth discussing as it’s all been said 100 times already, and anything that doesn’t tow the “USA is a f
ked up gun-crime riddled sthole, they deserve it, I’m alright Jack working remote as an IT contractor in my sleepy Surrey village ” line is thrown back in the face of everyone contributing who actually knows different because, you know, they live here, and actually know different.Where DO we take it from here?
US politicians are so bought and paid for by the NRA and 2A types that nothing is being done even after all the death, despite public support.
They did nothing after babies were murdered en mass!
Both the UK and Australia brought in gun control after a single event it should be obvious by now to the Americans that it's needed
US politicians are so bought and paid for by the NRA and 2A types that nothing is being done even after all the death, despite public support.
They did nothing after babies were murdered en mass!
Both the UK and Australia brought in gun control after a single event it should be obvious by now to the Americans that it's needed
NMNeil said:
djc206 said:
14 injured on E 6th St Austin TX. It’s their equivalent of Bourbon Street so would have been heaving.
Four murdered in Canada.Sorry, I missed that it didn't involve a gun.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/07/world/canada/mu...
Six murdered in China.
Damn, again no gun involved. Sorry I need to read these thing a bit closer.
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/police-china-a...
dvs_dave said:
Paragraph-by-paragraph quoting….one of those types.
I find it deeply ironic that you complain about a lack of discourse, yet when anyone actually tries to engage you in meaningful discussion you immediately take issue with it. It's obvious bad faith; I have no idea why you're even posting.dvs_dave said:
The only thing you want to hear is “The USA has a mass shooting problem, the UK doesn’t, nothing else is relevant”.
Great straw man If this is your takeaway from my posts, you might want some lessons in reading comprehension.
dvs_dave said:
Right, but where do we take the discussion?
Just seems there’s nothing more worth discussing as it’s all been said 100 times already, and anything that doesn’t tow the “USA is a fked up gun-crime riddled sthole, they deserve it, I’m alright Jack working remote as an IT contractor in my sleepy Surrey village ” line is thrown back in the face of everyone contributing who actually knows different because, you know, they live here, and actually know different.
Survey after survey has shown the US public support tighter gun control, yet nothing has been done about that for years.Just seems there’s nothing more worth discussing as it’s all been said 100 times already, and anything that doesn’t tow the “USA is a f
ked up gun-crime riddled sthole, they deserve it, I’m alright Jack working remote as an IT contractor in my sleepy Surrey village ” line is thrown back in the face of everyone contributing who actually knows different because, you know, they live here, and actually know different.How about we start there and try to work out why their politicians aren't representing the views of the people?
Voldemort said:
dvs_dave said:
Right, but where do we take the discussion?
There's a discussion? All I'm hearing from you is that your need to have a gun is more important to you than the deaths each year of thousands of your fellow countrymen.
The few don't want control and are happy with the current system of free for all, not helped by the fact it's not the United States, rather 50 different fiefdoms with different laws and rules. It's the standard 'it's not my problem'...
rscott said:
kowalski655 said:
See my post above...it's all about the $$$$$
It amazed to discover just how few members the NRA actually has, given the influence it seems to exert over politicians.It only has around 5m members, so a tiny fraction of the number of gun owners out there.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/nati...
https://fortune.com/2019/08/21/how-much-did-nra-co...
Then of course the whole Maria Butina case...
As always in US politics etc, money corrupts, which is why you have Wayne LaPierre, Wilson Phillips, Joshua Powell and John Frazer accussed of corruption and the NRA trying to declare themselves bankrupt.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/06/nr...
HD Adam said:
ReallyReallyGood said:
To any Americans here, is Sandy Hook ever uttered in the media or political conversation in the US? I don’t really hear much of it in UK media when they report on the latest on gun culture in the US. It’s like it didn’t happen.
NoEven now he's tried to appeal
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/apr/05/alex-j...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/us-school-shoo...
It shouldn't have to be, but it seems they would rather teach shooter drills at schools and have regular practices starting at a very young age rather than introduce any gun controls.
Byker28i said:
...
The few don't want control and are happy with the current system of free for all, not helped by the fact it's not the United States, rather 50 different fiefdoms with different laws and rules. It's the standard 'it's not my problem'......
I think the US position on guns is nuts. Unfortunately they started from a very different position to us (and that presupposes our position is perfect too).The few don't want control and are happy with the current system of free for all, not helped by the fact it's not the United States, rather 50 different fiefdoms with different laws and rules. It's the standard 'it's not my problem'......
However...
If it genuinely is "the few" over there, irrespective of the money the NRA has, irrespective Russian meddling etc...why doesn't a president simply make an open stand in an election campaign to do something about it?
There is absolutely huge amounts of ammo (sic) to wage against the gun freedoms American citizens "enjoy". If it's genuinely a small proportion who want these freedoms preserved unfettered, it should be a shoe in, shouldn't it?
Is it simply that elections are so tight that waging war on the Second Amendment would tip the balance? Even in an election like the last one?
It's trying to be done - from April
The U.S. House of Representatives on Thursday approved a pair of gun control bills as Democrats seized upon a shifting political landscape that they said improved chances for enacting new laws after years of failed attempts.
The first measure, which passed the Democratic-led House 227-203, would close a long-standing loophole in gun laws by expanding background checks to those purchasing weapons over the internet, at gun shows and through certain private transactions. Only eight Republicans joined the Democrats in backing the bill.
The second bill, passed 219-210 with only two Republicans supporting it, would give authorities 10 business days for federal background checks to be completed before a gun sale can be licensed. Currently, such sales can proceed if the government cannot complete complicated background checks of prospective buyers within three days.
President Joe Biden is a supporter of expanded gun control measures. The legislation may face a tougher battle in the U.S. Senate, where Biden’s fellow Democrats hold an even slimmer majority than in the House.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-gu...
The problem currently is the GOP under McConnell are again conducting their policy of refusing to support/pass anything Dems put forward
Gun reform has been an ongoing discussion since Columbine shootings in 1999, but whilst money is given to politicians and the gun lobbying is strong, there's little support to get anything passed. Tightening background checks would at least be a start...
The U.S. House of Representatives on Thursday approved a pair of gun control bills as Democrats seized upon a shifting political landscape that they said improved chances for enacting new laws after years of failed attempts.
The first measure, which passed the Democratic-led House 227-203, would close a long-standing loophole in gun laws by expanding background checks to those purchasing weapons over the internet, at gun shows and through certain private transactions. Only eight Republicans joined the Democrats in backing the bill.
The second bill, passed 219-210 with only two Republicans supporting it, would give authorities 10 business days for federal background checks to be completed before a gun sale can be licensed. Currently, such sales can proceed if the government cannot complete complicated background checks of prospective buyers within three days.
President Joe Biden is a supporter of expanded gun control measures. The legislation may face a tougher battle in the U.S. Senate, where Biden’s fellow Democrats hold an even slimmer majority than in the House.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-gu...
The problem currently is the GOP under McConnell are again conducting their policy of refusing to support/pass anything Dems put forward
Gun reform has been an ongoing discussion since Columbine shootings in 1999, but whilst money is given to politicians and the gun lobbying is strong, there's little support to get anything passed. Tightening background checks would at least be a start...
Edited by Byker28i on Monday 14th June 09:28
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