The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread

[HM-2]

andy_s said:

^ It's not even as if that's 'gun control', it's just bloody common sense.

Well quite. For all the shouting from the rooftops Republicans do about preventing guns getting into the hands of criminals, I find it pretty surprising that they'd vote almost uniformly against legislation that does exactly that.

[red_slr]

I often wonder if England allowed self defence as a reason to possess and carry a firearm just how many people would take it up.

I know its allowed in NI but in reality they restrict who can carry to ex military / police. Very few "normal" people get a CCW in NI. (does happen though)

But in England, if you said right - anyone without a criminal record who takes a short course on firearms safety can carry a gun.

I reckon more people would take it up than perhaps people think.

[HM-2]

red_slr said:

I often wonder if England allowed self defence as a reason to possess and carry a firearm just how many people would take it up.

I know its allowed in NI but in reality they restrict who can carry to ex military / police. Very few "normal" people get a CCW in NI. (does happen though)

But in England, if you said right - anyone without a criminal record who takes a short course on firearms safety can carry a gun.

I reckon more people would take it up than perhaps people think.

Presumably this would only apply to people who already have licenses? Or are you just suggesting that this is pushed out to everyone?

[djc206]

red_slr said:

I often wonder if England allowed self defence as a reason to possess and carry a firearm just how many people would take it up.

I know its allowed in NI but in reality they restrict who can carry to ex military / police. Very few "normal" people get a CCW in NI. (does happen though)

But in England, if you said right - anyone without a criminal record who takes a short course on firearms safety can carry a gun.

I reckon more people would take it up than perhaps people think.

Unlicensed? Millions. All hell would break loose as the gangs started an arms race.

Licensed? Millions but fewer. The black market would still flood with stolen weapons and there’d be an enormous uptick in violence in cities in particular.

We’re a fairly violent people because historically we’ve been able to be aggressive without serious consequence. Adding concealable firearms into that mix would be disastrous until a new equilibrium was established which I think would more likely resemble somewhere like south africa (race issues aside just the violence level) than the US.

[Byker28i]

red_slr said:

I often wonder if England allowed self defence as a reason to possess and carry a firearm just how many people would take it up.

No they took that away, we used to be able to shoot a welshman inside the city walls of Chester on a sunday with a crossbow, probably because Welshmen were prohibited from entering Chester before the sun rises – and have to leave again before the sun goes down, according to an old bylaw.


In reality - we don't have the history or the need of the ordinary population to carry foirearms - we aren't a nation with a few obsessed with them, and I speak as a linced holder of weapons and regular shooter (well was up until covid...)

[red_slr]

Byker28i said:

In reality - we don't have the history or the need of the ordinary population to carry foirearms - we aren't a nation with a few obsessed with them, and I speak as a linced holder of weapons and regular shooter (well was up until covid...)

Thats not what I was asking though. I now its different here (also FAC holder myself).

The question is just how many would take it up - despite peoples public obsession with saying guns = bad.

I think it would be millions as well.

We are quite a two faced society in that regard IMVHO. I find the psychology of it all fascinating.

[HM-2]

red_slr said:

The question is just how many would take it up - despite peoples public obsession with saying guns = bad.

Very few I would think. Obtaining a shotgun certificate is easy. Obtain a proper firearms certificate isn't particularly difficult. And yet there are less than 140,000 firearm owners in the UK, and a little over half a million shotgun owners.

People in the UK by and large don't find themselves in situations where they need to defend themselves. I mean nor do Americans, but we also don't like in an action-man fantasy world where the second largest political party literally advocates arming teachers in the event that an incident happens in a school. There will be exceptions, of course. I mean, anyone who illegally carries a knife is going to jump at the chance to legally carry a firearm. But outside of inner cities and gang associates, plus those of us with an interest in shooting, uptake would be a firm "meh".

[Brother D]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shootings-hours-lea...

Busy weekend here with 4 mass shootings over the weekend

[captain_cynic]

HM-2 said:

red_slr said:

The question is just how many would take it up - despite peoples public obsession with saying guns = bad.

Very few I would think. Obtaining a shotgun certificate is easy. Obtain a proper firearms certificate isn't particularly difficult. And yet there are less than 140,000 firearm owners in the UK, and a little over half a million shotgun owners.

People in the UK by and large don't find themselves in situations where they need to defend themselves. I mean nor do Americans, but we also don't like in an action-man fantasy world where the second largest political party literally advocates arming teachers in the event that an incident happens in a school. There will be exceptions, of course. I mean, anyone who illegally carries a knife is going to jump at the chance to legally carry a firearm. But outside of inner cities and gang associates, plus those of us with an interest in shooting, uptake would be a firm "meh".

This.

People in the UK don't feel the need to carry firearms around with them, even the majority of firearm owners. There is just no impetus here, we're a safe society which is largely law abiding. If you're really worried about defence in the UK, take a self defence class like Krav Maga. One of the first delusions it will clear you of is that a weapons is useful for defence, if someone gets the drop on you that pistol, wherever it is concealed, is already too far away (what a self defence discipline will teach you is how to spot and avoid the dangerous situation in the first place).

If you think you need a firearm for self defence, you're either an idiot or need to admit the society you live in is horribly broken.

[Matt Harper]

Lord.Vader said:

Why are you so keen to defend the USA? The country is a fu**ing joke with mass shootings taking place on a weekly basis. Or how about Chicago … ?

You criticise the previous poster for breaking down your straw man arguments, factually, why?

As a UK firearm owner it’s an embarrassment to be associated, in any way shape or form with the cretinous NRA / Guns and Ammo reading idiots.

IIRC you are also a UK firearm owner (from the shooting thread), why so keen to defend our feckless brethren? They shouldn’t be allowed a spud gun.

Edited by Lord.Vader on Sunday 13th June 01:19

You seem to be projecting yourself as a bit of a sanctimonious plonker. Is that your intention?

Do you genuinely feel that because some people (albeit a minute proportion of overall US society) kill each other, "The country" is a fking joke?

You are a responsible, holier than thou UK firearm owner, but Americans are cretinous idiots who shouldn't be allowed a spud gun. Do you have any idea of how moronic that makes you appear?

[captain_cynic]

Matt Harper said:

Lord.Vader said:

Why are you so keen to defend the USA? The country is a fu**ing joke with mass shootings taking place on a weekly basis. Or how about Chicago … ?

You criticise the previous poster for breaking down your straw man arguments, factually, why?

As a UK firearm owner it’s an embarrassment to be associated, in any way shape or form with the cretinous NRA / Guns and Ammo reading idiots.

IIRC you are also a UK firearm owner (from the shooting thread), why so keen to defend our feckless brethren? They shouldn’t be allowed a spud gun.

Edited by Lord.Vader on Sunday 13th June 01:19

You seem to be projecting yourself as a bit of a sanctimonious plonker. Is that your intention

No, he's not the one coming off as a sanctimonious plonker (because I sense you can't understand irony, it's actually you).

Matt Harper said:

Do you genuinely feel that because some people (albeit a minute proportion of overall US society) kill each other, "The country" is a fking joke?

I've highlighted the operative part of Vader's quote that you ignored because if you did, you wouldn't be able to attack him without looking like a pillock... I mean even more of a pillock than you already look.

Here is the quote again.

Lord.Vader said:

The country is a fu**ing joke with mass shootings taking place on a weekly basis.

You appear quite silly trying to change his words when they are printed in your own post. Now there are some good parts to the US, I work for a US company so I am far from anti-US, but their gun culture is a fking joke as it results in thousands of homicides per year. over 10,000 per year, 14,000 in 2018. That is 27.3 firearm homicides per day, Total homicides in the UK for 2018 were 698, even accounting for population differences we have 1/3 the number of homicides (total) than the US has in firearm homicides, which does not take into account non-firearm homicides.

This is to say nothing of the number of firearm accidents, which are endemic.

Matt Harper said:

You are a responsible, holier than thou UK firearm owner, but Americans are cretinous idiots who shouldn't be allowed a spud gun. Do you have any idea of how moronic that makes you appear?

Actually he appears to be quite intelligent (again, I sense you don't understand the subtlety of irony).

UK gun owners are, by and large, responsible and reasonable people.

[dvs_dave]

Voldemort said:

There's a discussion?

All I'm hearing from you is that your need to have a gun is more important to you than the deaths each year of thousands of your fellow countrymen.

I guess you missed what I posted a couple posts prior, and like many others, you just fancied a spot of drive-by st posting (pun intended)

dvs_dave said:

I’m an [Brit] expat living in (central) Chicago, and I don’t own a firearm, nor feel the need to. What’s your relevant first hand experience….?

[Matt Harper]

captain_cynic said:

Matt Harper said:

Lord.Vader said:

Why are you so keen to defend the USA? The country is a fu**ing joke with mass shootings taking place on a weekly basis. Or how about Chicago … ?

You criticise the previous poster for breaking down your straw man arguments, factually, why?

As a UK firearm owner it’s an embarrassment to be associated, in any way shape or form with the cretinous NRA / Guns and Ammo reading idiots.

IIRC you are also a UK firearm owner (from the shooting thread), why so keen to defend our feckless brethren? They shouldn’t be allowed a spud gun.

Edited by Lord.Vader on Sunday 13th June 01:19

You seem to be projecting yourself as a bit of a sanctimonious plonker. Is that your intention

No, he's not the one coming off as a sanctimonious plonker (because I sense you can't understand irony, it's actually you).

Matt Harper said:

Do you genuinely feel that because some people (albeit a minute proportion of overall US society) kill each other, "The country" is a fking joke?

I've highlighted the operative part of Vader's quote that you ignored because if you did, you wouldn't be able to attack him without looking like a pillock... I mean even more of a pillock than you already look.

Here is the quote again.

Lord.Vader said:

The country is a fu**ing joke with mass shootings taking place on a weekly basis.

You appear quite silly trying to change his words when they are printed in your own post. Now there are some good parts to the US, I work for a US company so I am far from anti-US, but their gun culture is a fking joke as it results in thousands of homicides per year. over 10,000 per year, 14,000 in 2018. That is 27.3 firearm homicides per day, Total homicides in the UK for 2018 were 698, even accounting for population differences we have 1/3 the number of homicides (total) than the US has in firearm homicides, which does not take into account non-firearm homicides.

This is to say nothing of the number of firearm accidents, which are endemic.

Matt Harper said:

You are a responsible, holier than thou UK firearm owner, but Americans are cretinous idiots who shouldn't be allowed a spud gun. Do you have any idea of how moronic that makes you appear?

Actually he appears to be quite intelligent (again, I sense you don't understand the subtlety of irony).

UK gun owners are, by and large, responsible and reasonable people.

Who are you - his Mum?

I didn't change any of his words - not one. His sentence structure is a little clumsy - but I believe he wrote that "The country is a fking joke" followed-up with, "with mass shootings etc...."

Now if he'd written, "The country is a fking joke, based on the fact that there are mass shootings etc..." then that would put a whole different coat of paint on the matter.

Anyway, I'm sure he doesn't need you to attempt to justify his lousy grammar.

[dvs_dave]

Brother D said:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shootings-hours-lea...

Busy weekend here with 4 mass shootings over the weekend

I wonder if there are any common denominators with these particular situations, and if that’s got anything to do with the barely more than “business as usual” approach from the media.

[Byker28i]

I mean - as an example - how is this person allowed guns?

A neo-Nazi and ex-Marine who coordinated a national counterprotest on the anniversary of George Floyd’s murder, is making plans to turn Maine into an all-white ethnostate.

“Only thing I'm trying to build is a community of family men,” he said in a text exchange on Telegram, confirming that he and the others have guns because: “Who isn’t armed? I wouldn’t recommend anyone wait for a collapse to be armed [...] An unarmed man sacrifices his family to the unpredictably of chaos."

“We are white nationalist preppers.”
https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7b7pb/leaked-chat...

[paua]

^ There must be a small sub-Antarctic island in the Atlantic with no infrastructure, suitable for him & like-minded friends?

Edit: Bouvet Island might suit.

Edited by paua on Tuesday 15th June 09:33

[Byker28i]

A shooting overnight at the Mueller Co. facility in Albertville, Alabama, left two employees dead and two injured, according to Albertville Police Chief Jamie Smith.

Smith said an employee began firing a weapon at other employees around 2:30 a.m. Tuesday "for an unknown reason," according to a news release obtained by CNN affiliate WAFF.
https://us.cnn.com/2021/06/15/us/albertville-muell...


A dispute over a mask Monday at a grocery store led to shootout that left an employee dead and two people, including a sheriff's deputy, injured, according to DeKalb County Sheriff Melody Maddox.

The suspect entered the Big Bear Supermarket at South DeKalb Mall in Decatur, in the Atlanta-metro area, where there was an argument with the cashier over a mask. Maddox gave few details about the argument but said it was over a face mask.
https://us.cnn.com/2021/06/14/us/georgia-deputy-sh...

[Byker28i]

As the nation marked the fifth anniversary of the Pulse nightclub massacre in Orlando on Saturday, it has a staggering and grim new statistic to contend with for 2021.

So far this year, we have suffered 272 mass shootings, according to Gun Violence Archive. From Friday afternoon to Sunday, at least 10 people were killed and another 50 were injured in nine mass shootings in six states, according to data compiled by CNN and the Gun Violence Archive.

An 18-month-old and 4-year-old were among the youngest victims, authorities said.
The total number of mass shootings is about 40% higher than at this point in 2020, and about 65% higher than at this point in 2019, according to data from the Gun Violence Archive. There were an estimated 194 mass shootings in the US during this same period in 2020, and an estimated 164 mass shootings in the US in this same period in 2019.

This weekend's mass shootings include incidents in Georgia, Illinois, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas and Washington state.
https://us.cnn.com/2021/06/12/us/us-mass-shootings...

[Byker28i]

New AP investigation: Since the 2010's at least 1,900 U.S. military firearms were lost or stolen, with some resurfacing in violent crimes. One weapon was used in four shootings in Albany, NY. The Army didn't even know it was missing.
https://apnews.com/article/government-and-politics...

If the army can't keep track...

[dvs_dave]

Byker28i said:

As the nation marked the fifth anniversary of the Pulse nightclub massacre in Orlando on Saturday, it has a staggering and grim new statistic to contend with for 2021.

So far this year, we have suffered 272 mass shootings, according to Gun Violence Archive. From Friday afternoon to Sunday, at least 10 people were killed and another 50 were injured in nine mass shootings in six states, according to data compiled by CNN and the Gun Violence Archive.

An 18-month-old and 4-year-old were among the youngest victims, authorities said.
The total number of mass shootings is about 40% higher than at this point in 2020, and about 65% higher than at this point in 2019, according to data from the Gun Violence Archive. There were an estimated 194 mass shootings in the US during this same period in 2020, and an estimated 164 mass shootings in the US in this same period in 2019.

This weekend's mass shootings include incidents in Georgia, Illinois, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas and Washington state.
https://us.cnn.com/2021/06/12/us/us-mass-shootings...

It would be interesting to see the breakdown of those mass shootings, into just two simple buckets. Gang related, and not gang related.

The overwhelming majority, (like 95%+) will be gang related. Why does that matter vs the “traditional” mass shooting where some incel/misfit/mentalist is behind it? The former is a very different problem to the latter and they require very different approaches to solve.

The gang related ones barely make the news as no one cares. The play stupid games, win stupid prizes approach. But this is where the true effort needs to be spent, and tighter gun control doesn’t do anything for this lot as they’re all using illegal firearms anyway. It would however improve the other category, but that’s not the biggest fish to fry, not by a long way.

Of course those stats would never be released as it’s a huge political hot potato, especially in these times. And it’s one that’s also plaguing UK politics. Although it’s just far too incendiary a topic to even hint at the reality of it, which makes it immeasurably harder to do anything about.