The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread
Discussion
Voldemort said:
dvs_dave said:
Ok Quotey McQuoteface; seems like you’ve gotten yourself so enraged you've fumbled the formatting of your beloved quotes. You're as predictable as you are exhausting. laugh
ThatcherMag said:
“I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.”
It's clear you have no interest in actual discussion or defence of your views other than insulting people, so might I suggest you f
k off?Edited by chris.mod on Thursday 17th June 20:39
Byker28i said:
New AP investigation: Since the 2010's at least 1,900 U.S. military firearms were lost or stolen, with some resurfacing in violent crimes. One weapon was used in four shootings in Albany, NY. The Army didn't even know it was missing.
https://apnews.com/article/government-and-politics...
If the army can't keep track...
AP have continued with this investigationhttps://apnews.com/article/government-and-politics...
If the army can't keep track...
The U.S. Army has hidden or downplayed the extent to which its firearms disappear, significantly understating losses and thefts even as some weapons are used in street crimes.
The Army’s pattern of secrecy and suppression dates back nearly a decade, when The Associated Press began investigating weapons accountability within the military. Officials fought the release of information for years, then offered misleading answers that contradict internal records.
Military guns aren’t just disappearing. Stolen guns have been used in shootings, brandished to rob and threaten people and recovered in the hands of felons. Thieves sold assault rifles to a street gang.
https://apnews.com/article/al-state-wire-business-...
HM-2 said:
dvs_dave said:
Come on fellas, the actual percentage isn't important and you all full well know it.
dvs_dave: "95% of mass shootings are gang related"Also dvs_dave: "actual statistics aren't importantly come in guys I was just being hyperbolic"
Here's a hint- don't make up bulls
t and then handwave away anyone who calls you on if you want to be treated with anything but derision or scorn.dvs_dave said:
Regardless, gang related are still the vast majority
I'm not sure whose standards ~33% constitutes "the vast majority" but it ain't mine.dvs_dave said:
But don't let that stop you from turning your news cherry picking algorithms and death-by-1000-quotes approaches on me to prove in excruciating detail just how incorrect I am
Here's a hint- don't post bks you're unable or unwilling to defend then. It's all very well whining about how all these nasty people are confronting you with facts, evidence and rational scepticism but nobody made you post nonsense you couldn't evidence. Your general inability to engage in the topic in a coherent and meaningful way is nobody's fault but your own.and how clever and correct you obviously are. Typical PH sealioning pile-on....well done guys
Voldemort said:
dvs_dave said:
Ok Quotey McQuoteface; seems like you’ve gotten yourself so enraged you've fumbled the formatting of your beloved quotes. You're as predictable as you are exhausting. laugh
ThatcherMag said:
“I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.”
Edited by chris.mod on Thursday 17th June 20:40
Uh huh...so writing "like 95%+" means I was obviously stating an actual verifiable fact, that must be backed up or jumped on, and there was no uncertainty at all communicated by that syntax, despite it being immaterial to the overall sentiment of what was said being true?
As the thread has degenerated into a petit stalkery sealioning pedants pile-on, where can it go now (again)? Maybe it gets closed, or one of you reports me for not towing the opinion line (a few here know about that already
), in which case, here's an actual 100% verifiable fact for you, see you next Tuesday! 
As the thread has degenerated into a petit stalkery sealioning pedants pile-on, where can it go now (again)? Maybe it gets closed, or one of you reports me for not towing the opinion line (a few here know about that already
), in which case, here's an actual 100% verifiable fact for you, see you next Tuesday! dvs_dave said:
Uh huh...so writing "like 95%+" means I was obviously stating an actual verifiable fact
They're your figures. If you aren't going to stand by them then don't use them. It's not very complicated.dvs_dave said:
despite it being immaterial to the overall sentiment of what was said being true?
You are aware that waving your own arguments away as "immaterial" essentially invalidates any semblance of a point you've made? Quite aside from the fact you've presented exactly zero evidence that the "overall sentiment" is true.dvs_dave said:
As the thread has degenerated into... sealioning
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "sealioning", because you've definitely misused it here. The St. Louis couple who made headlines last year for pointing their guns at people protesting near their home pleaded guilty to misdemeanor charges, according to court documents obtained from the city of St. Louis on Thursday.
Mark and Patricia McCloskey drew national attention in June 2020 after they were seen on video brandishing guns outside their mansion and pointing them at protesters, who were walking on a private street toward the home of the St. Louis mayor.
In videos posted to social media, Mark McCloskey is seen holding a long rifle and Patricia McCloskey a handgun as demonstrators -- who were protesting then-Mayor Lyda Krewson's decision to publish the names and addresses of people in favor of police reform -- walked past their home.
As part of the plea agreement, Mark and Patricia McCloskey agreed to surrender their handgun and semi-automatic rifle, according to the documents.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/17/us/st-louis-mcc...
Surrender the rifle and hand gun, but nothing about not ableto own others, or replace them?
The McCloskeys were originally charged with unlawful use of a firearm by St. Louis Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner in July, but a grand jury added the tampering charges in October. The indictment said a semiautomatic pistol was altered in a way that “obstructed the prosecution of Patricia McCloskey" on the weapons charge.
Tried to deactivate it?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/st-louis-coup...
Mark and Patricia McCloskey drew national attention in June 2020 after they were seen on video brandishing guns outside their mansion and pointing them at protesters, who were walking on a private street toward the home of the St. Louis mayor.
In videos posted to social media, Mark McCloskey is seen holding a long rifle and Patricia McCloskey a handgun as demonstrators -- who were protesting then-Mayor Lyda Krewson's decision to publish the names and addresses of people in favor of police reform -- walked past their home.
As part of the plea agreement, Mark and Patricia McCloskey agreed to surrender their handgun and semi-automatic rifle, according to the documents.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/17/us/st-louis-mcc...
Surrender the rifle and hand gun, but nothing about not ableto own others, or replace them?
The McCloskeys were originally charged with unlawful use of a firearm by St. Louis Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner in July, but a grand jury added the tampering charges in October. The indictment said a semiautomatic pistol was altered in a way that “obstructed the prosecution of Patricia McCloskey" on the weapons charge.
Tried to deactivate it?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/st-louis-coup...
Shocked by an Associated Press investigation into the loss and theft of military guns, the Pentagon’s top general signaled Thursday that he will consider a “systematic fix” to how the armed services keep account of their firearms.
The AP’s investigation reported how some of the missing guns have been stolen and later used in violent street crimes, while many others have vanished without a clue from the military’s enormous supply chains.
In all, AP identified at least 1,900 guns that the four armed services recorded as lost or stolen during the 2010s. Most came from the Army. Because some of the service branches provided incomplete data -- or none at all -- that total is a certain undercount.
“I was frankly shocked by the numbers that were in there,” Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the Senate Appropriations Committee at a hearing Thursday.
https://apnews.com/article/government-and-politics...
The AP’s investigation reported how some of the missing guns have been stolen and later used in violent street crimes, while many others have vanished without a clue from the military’s enormous supply chains.
In all, AP identified at least 1,900 guns that the four armed services recorded as lost or stolen during the 2010s. Most came from the Army. Because some of the service branches provided incomplete data -- or none at all -- that total is a certain undercount.
“I was frankly shocked by the numbers that were in there,” Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the Senate Appropriations Committee at a hearing Thursday.
https://apnews.com/article/government-and-politics...
Byker28i said:
The St. Louis couple who made headlines last year for pointing their guns at people protesting near their home pleaded guilty to misdemeanor charges, according to court documents obtained from the city of St. Louis on Thursday.
There was a series of comments a week or so ago essentially asserting that there was zero prospect of conviction in this case because their actions were legitimate self defence against violent aggressors. Clearly their legal counsel thought otherwise if they were advised to take a plea deal.
captain_cynic said:
Matt Harper said:
Lord.Vader said:
Why are you so keen to defend the USA? The country is a fu**ing joke with mass shootings taking place on a weekly basis. Or how about Chicago … ?
You criticise the previous poster for breaking down your straw man arguments, factually, why?
As a UK firearm owner it’s an embarrassment to be associated, in any way shape or form with the cretinous NRA / Guns and Ammo reading idiots.
IIRC you are also a UK firearm owner (from the shooting thread), why so keen to defend our feckless brethren? They shouldn’t be allowed a spud gun.
You seem to be projecting yourself as a bit of a sanctimonious plonker. Is that your intentionYou criticise the previous poster for breaking down your straw man arguments, factually, why?
As a UK firearm owner it’s an embarrassment to be associated, in any way shape or form with the cretinous NRA / Guns and Ammo reading idiots.
IIRC you are also a UK firearm owner (from the shooting thread), why so keen to defend our feckless brethren? They shouldn’t be allowed a spud gun.
Edited by Lord.Vader on Sunday 13th June 01:19
Matt Harper said:
Do you genuinely feel that because some people (albeit a minute proportion of overall US society) kill each other, "The country" is a fking joke?
I've highlighted the operative part of Vader's quote that you ignored because if you did, you wouldn't be able to attack him without looking like a pillock... I mean even more of a pillock than you already look. king joke?Here is the quote again.
Lord.Vader said:
The country is a fu**ing joke with mass shootings taking place on a weekly basis.
You appear quite silly trying to change his words when they are printed in your own post. Now there are some good parts to the US, I work for a US company so I am far from anti-US, but their gun culture is a fking joke as it results in thousands of homicides per year. over 10,000 per year, 14,000 in 2018. That is 27.3 firearm homicides per day, Total homicides in the UK for 2018 were 698, even accounting for population differences we have 1/3 the number of homicides (total) than the US has in firearm homicides, which does not take into account non-firearm homicides. This is to say nothing of the number of firearm accidents, which are endemic.
Matt Harper said:
You are a responsible, holier than thou UK firearm owner, but Americans are cretinous idiots who shouldn't be allowed a spud gun. Do you have any idea of how moronic that makes you appear?
Actually he appears to be quite intelligent (again, I sense you don't understand the subtlety of irony). UK gun owners are, by and large, responsible and reasonable people.
Moronic is a country that, literally, has a daily occurrence of shooting(s) and yet nothing changes, who was it who (allegedly) said ‘ insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.’
I am not anti-US at all, I have spent a lot of time there for both holiday and work, it is a great place with fantastic people (in general), yet the gun situation is out of control.
ETA; I see you are also a grammar Nazi Matt, do you enjoy that as much as guns? What an excellent post, I wrote that at 01:19 after a rather enjoyable night out so yes my grammar wasn’t perfect.
As to dvs_dave, you come off as so focused on ‘hating on the left’ and defending the current state of affairs in the US to have any meaningful discussion, you seem to take pleasure in defending the as is situation, almost as if you agree 25 deaths a day is an acceptable price to pay for firearm freedom.
Actually as an ex-pat can you even own a firearm? Or do you need to have been there x years / residency rights? Or are you a bit of 5ohmustang walt?
Edited by Lord.Vader on Friday 18th June 08:23
Edited by Lord.Vader on Friday 18th June 08:25
So much has changed over the last 10 years. Most brits just dont know about it because a) there is no reason for them to know b) its not talked about in the UK press and c) most brits have zero clue as to any US laws anyway.
As for the changes, just a few (outline) examples which can be found in some states in the last few years.
If children are in a property guns must be kept in a safe or have trigger locks.
Increased background checks and removal of private sales.
Magazine restrictions of 10 rounds.
Ban on certain parts such as pistol grips on rifles, vertical hand guard grips etc.
Increased background checks to buy certain ammunition.
Red flag orders (domestic abuse allegations / violence allegations pre charge = guns can be seized)
There are countless others that I cant remember off the top of my head.
They are making changes - each state is like its own country though.
As for the changes, just a few (outline) examples which can be found in some states in the last few years.
If children are in a property guns must be kept in a safe or have trigger locks.
Increased background checks and removal of private sales.
Magazine restrictions of 10 rounds.
Ban on certain parts such as pistol grips on rifles, vertical hand guard grips etc.
Increased background checks to buy certain ammunition.
Red flag orders (domestic abuse allegations / violence allegations pre charge = guns can be seized)
There are countless others that I cant remember off the top of my head.
They are making changes - each state is like its own country though.
red_slr said:
So much has changed over the last 10 years. Most brits just dont know about it because a) there is no reason for them to know b) its not talked about in the UK press and c) most brits have zero clue as to any US laws anyway.
As for the changes, just a few (outline) examples which can be found in some states in the last few years.
If children are in a property guns must be kept in a safe or have trigger locks.
Increased background checks and removal of private sales.
Magazine restrictions of 10 rounds.
Ban on certain parts such as pistol grips on rifles, vertical hand guard grips etc.
Increased background checks to buy certain ammunition.
Red flag orders (domestic abuse allegations / violence allegations pre charge = guns can be seized)
There are countless others that I cant remember off the top of my head.
They are making changes - each state is like its own country though.
Whilst much of this is true to a certain degree, it's far from uniform in its implementation across the US. Most of these are state dependent; very few are federally legislated and those that are Hebe significant loopholes which appear to have almost intentionally left as obvious as possible. As for the changes, just a few (outline) examples which can be found in some states in the last few years.
If children are in a property guns must be kept in a safe or have trigger locks.
Increased background checks and removal of private sales.
Magazine restrictions of 10 rounds.
Ban on certain parts such as pistol grips on rifles, vertical hand guard grips etc.
Increased background checks to buy certain ammunition.
Red flag orders (domestic abuse allegations / violence allegations pre charge = guns can be seized)
There are countless others that I cant remember off the top of my head.
They are making changes - each state is like its own country though.
I also think it's a mistake to say "we've had progress and that's enough".
HM-2 said:
Whilst much of this is true to a certain degree, it's far from uniform in its implementation across the US. Most of these are state dependent; very few are federally legislated and those that are Hebe significant loopholes which appear to have almost intentionally left as obvious as possible.
Which is why I put the last sentence in my post.HM-2 said:
I also think it's a mistake to say "we've had progress and that's enough".
If you are a US citizen then you are totally within your rights to think and say that. I dont, because I am not. I just think its unfair to say they are doing nothing. They are not doing nothing, far from it. In the state that I am most familiar with the laws they put about half a dozen bills through last year alone. Compare to the UK, it would take us years to do that. We only just managed to get the lever release / mars ban rolling after what 3, maybe 4 years? We tried to ban .50 cals without MPs even actually knowing what a .50 cal was and not only that then being told false technical information by the home office which resulted in a total failure of the new laws as it all had to be thrown out.
So the UK has its own problems, we just dont talk about it.
red_slr said:
So much has changed over the last 10 years. Most brits just dont know about it because a) there is no reason for them to know b) its not talked about in the UK press and c) most brits have zero clue as to any US laws anyway.
As for the changes, just a few (outline) examples which can be found in some states in the last few years.
If children are in a property guns must be kept in a safe or have trigger locks.
Increased background checks and removal of private sales.
Magazine restrictions of 10 rounds.
Ban on certain parts such as pistol grips on rifles, vertical hand guard grips etc.
Increased background checks to buy certain ammunition.
Red flag orders (domestic abuse allegations / violence allegations pre charge = guns can be seized)
There are countless others that I cant remember off the top of my head.
They are making changes - each state is like its own country though.
When gun locks are as secure as this one, what's the point? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJaca6MgrA0As for the changes, just a few (outline) examples which can be found in some states in the last few years.
If children are in a property guns must be kept in a safe or have trigger locks.
Increased background checks and removal of private sales.
Magazine restrictions of 10 rounds.
Ban on certain parts such as pistol grips on rifles, vertical hand guard grips etc.
Increased background checks to buy certain ammunition.
Red flag orders (domestic abuse allegations / violence allegations pre charge = guns can be seized)
There are countless others that I cant remember off the top of my head.
They are making changes - each state is like its own country though.
Are these kept in a safe or have trigger locks? https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-lauren-boebert...
What's to stop a US citizen buying a large capacity magazine in one state and taking it to another though.
Lord.Vader said:
As to dvs_dave, you come off as so focused on ‘hating on the left’ and defending the current state of affairs in the US to have any meaningful discussion, you seem to take pleasure in defending the as is situation, almost as if you agree 25 deaths a day is an acceptable price to pay for firearm freedom.
Actually as an ex-pat can you even own a firearm? Or do you need to have been there x years / residency rights? Or are you a bit of 5ohmustang walt?
Wow, some serious mental gymnastics going on there. It’s so far off the mark, I think you must have me confused with someone else.Actually as an ex-pat can you even own a firearm? Or do you need to have been there x years / residency rights? Or are you a bit of 5ohmustang walt?
Lord.Vader said:
I am not anti-US at all, I have spent a lot of time there for both holiday and work, it is a great place with fantastic people (in general), yet the gun situation is out of control.
ETA; I see you are also a grammar Nazi Matt, do you enjoy that as much as guns? What an excellent post, I wrote that at 01:19 after a rather enjoyable night out so yes my grammar wasn’t perfect.
I am neither a "gun-nut", or a grammar nazi - nor am I OK with the carnage that lack of US gun control has created.ETA; I see you are also a grammar Nazi Matt, do you enjoy that as much as guns? What an excellent post, I wrote that at 01:19 after a rather enjoyable night out so yes my grammar wasn’t perfect.
However, I don't think that the country is a f
king joke either. That is what you wrote and walking it back because you were st-faced doesn't change that.My only other concern was (and still is) your proclamation that you are a responsible and conscientious gun-owner, but people like me (being American - though previously from the UK) are not. I found that to be somewhat offensive. But consoled myself by excusing you as being a moron.
Hopefully this clarifies things for you.
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