The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread
Discussion
pubrunner said:
fttm said:
Quality of life in North America for those willing to work knocks spots of the UK . . .
For me, 'quality of life' relates to the amount and 'quality' of time that I spend with my family - outside of work times.
Many of my friends and relations in the US, have between 5 - 10 days vacation time in a year; by way of contrast, I'll have 35 days.
You mention that those in the US who are 'willing to work', have great quality of life - on only one or two weeks of holiday ?
I remember talking to a senior manager from a US plant. Blue collar workers could be selected to train for an engineering post and advancement to white collar status. It was an agreement to allow advancement within the station.
Thing is, the person selected didn't even have a choice if they were selected and if they subsequently failed the training, they were out of a job. Bizarre.
pubrunner said:
fttm said:
Quality of life in North America for those willing to work knocks spots of the UK . . .
For me, 'quality of life' relates to the amount and 'quality' of time that I spend with my family - outside of work times.
Many of my friends and relations in the US, have between 5 - 10 days vacation time in a year; by way of contrast, I'll have 35 days.
You mention that those in the US who are 'willing to work', have great quality of life - on only one or two weeks of holiday ?
Regards general quality of life, again its a massive "it depends"....ours is far superior in the USA, than it would be in the UK, absolutely no question, as most professional level and up people with experience of both markets would attest. However if you're on a lower rung of the job ladder, not so much.
I've said it many times before; the USA is a great place to be if you're rich, but a bad place if you're poor. The UK (and other heavy welfare states) is the other way around.
Anyway...we digress.
dvs_dave said:
As always it depends. The oft trotted out yet always misunderstood "you only get 10 days holiday yadda yadda", is because that's the statutory minimum (public holidays basically). However only the lowest rung jobs have that sort of allowance, and the vast majority of jobs are very similar to the UK, ie they start at around 20 days+10 and go from there based on tenure/level. If they didn't do that, they wouldn't be able to attract any sort of talent. For example, at my particular level, I have unlimited vacation time. Just as long as I get my job done is basically the only stipulation. I wouldn't get that in the UK "working for the man", that's for sure!
Regards general quality of life, again its a massive "it depends"....ours is far superior in the USA, than it would be in the UK, absolutely no question, as most professional level and up people with experience of both markets would attest. However if you're on a lower rung of the job ladder, not so much.
I've said it many times before; the USA is a great place to be if you're rich, but a bad place if you're poor. The UK (and other heavy welfare states) is the other way around.
Anyway...we digress.
Certainly the people from the US I have talked to have nowhere near the amount of holidays we have in the UK, and at the management level, are not expected to take it all.Regards general quality of life, again its a massive "it depends"....ours is far superior in the USA, than it would be in the UK, absolutely no question, as most professional level and up people with experience of both markets would attest. However if you're on a lower rung of the job ladder, not so much.
I've said it many times before; the USA is a great place to be if you're rich, but a bad place if you're poor. The UK (and other heavy welfare states) is the other way around.
Anyway...we digress.
But its swings and roundabouts and fttm's assertion, I think we can agree, is b
ks.dvs_dave said:
The oft trotted out yet always misunderstood "you only get 10 days holiday yadda yadda", is because that's the statutory minimum (public holidays basically). However only the lowest rung jobs have that sort of allowance, and the vast majority of jobs are very similar to the UK, ie they start at around 20 days+10 and go from there based on tenure/level.
Pretty sure there is no legal requirement for US employers to give paid vacation time, Federal/State holiday or not.Byker28i said:
Pros and Cons - we wouldn't want your healthcare, your gun laws, your openly corrupt politicians and the slowness to bring them to account, caused by all the lax money laws around how they can hide donations. As a population you're very gullible, be it Qanon conspiracies, donating money to rich preachers, support for corrupt politicians etc
We aren't as inward and are certainly more open minded towards other people, although there's that underlying base of racism here too. The US is very materialistic, it's all about the money you have, the size of your property, your car, and generally the US is about 50 years behind other developed western countries socially, worse since trump. We aren't as one US citizen on my last visit insisted, dominated with Sharia law and the whole of London is a no go area for the police.
You don't pay people a living wage, so tipping is essential, but FFS that makes a beer in New York £12+. In some places in the US, major cities, the cost of living is out of control.
You have cheaper fuel, big long straight roads and some great v8 cars that suit those roads. Some beautiful countryside, some amazing people and can be technology leaders because you have the money to throw at the problem. You know how to cook meat, oh southern smokehouses... but sometimes finding vegetables can be difficult. Most other countries accept that potatoes (especially fries) does not count as one of your 5 a day.
On my visits I like to visit ranges and shoot weapons I can't in the UK.
Oh and if we're talking about getting the country back into shape, hows your vaccine rollout going? <drops mic>
None of that addresses the fact that gun ownership (legal and illegal) and use is out of control in the US. Start by finding out how big the problem is, register all firearms. Remove the stupid law that anyone can get a gun if the check doesn't come back in three days - you don't get a gun until your security check clears. Tighten purchases of firearms at shows and for goodness sake, agree a fixed set of rules across all 50 states.
There we go....USA bad, UK good. The underlying sentiment prevails. We aren't as inward and are certainly more open minded towards other people, although there's that underlying base of racism here too. The US is very materialistic, it's all about the money you have, the size of your property, your car, and generally the US is about 50 years behind other developed western countries socially, worse since trump. We aren't as one US citizen on my last visit insisted, dominated with Sharia law and the whole of London is a no go area for the police.
You don't pay people a living wage, so tipping is essential, but FFS that makes a beer in New York £12+. In some places in the US, major cities, the cost of living is out of control.
You have cheaper fuel, big long straight roads and some great v8 cars that suit those roads. Some beautiful countryside, some amazing people and can be technology leaders because you have the money to throw at the problem. You know how to cook meat, oh southern smokehouses... but sometimes finding vegetables can be difficult. Most other countries accept that potatoes (especially fries) does not count as one of your 5 a day.
On my visits I like to visit ranges and shoot weapons I can't in the UK.
Oh and if we're talking about getting the country back into shape, hows your vaccine rollout going? <drops mic>
None of that addresses the fact that gun ownership (legal and illegal) and use is out of control in the US. Start by finding out how big the problem is, register all firearms. Remove the stupid law that anyone can get a gun if the check doesn't come back in three days - you don't get a gun until your security check clears. Tighten purchases of firearms at shows and for goodness sake, agree a fixed set of rules across all 50 states.
We can all trot out a hyperbolic laundry list of what's good/bad about everywhere. The key is, what's the reality of it, and on balance what's best for you? Nowhere is perfect (or everyone would be there!), you just exchange one set of problems for another. What isn't an issue in the US is an issue in the UK, and vice versa. You just need to decide what real world actual problems you'd rather have to be dealing with, and make your choices based on that. I'm fortunate in that I have the luxury of having those choices available (i.e. multiple residency options) so can be pragmatic about it. I also understand that if you don't have those opportunities available, and this is your lot, then you're likely going to be justifying that to yourself, regardless of the objective realities.
But I digress again...probably should start an "Is the US a better place to live than the UK?" thread, although I don't think it'd go very well.
Edited by dvs_dave on Friday 25th June 18:04
bigandclever said:
Pretty sure there is no legal requirement for US employers to give paid vacation time, Federal/State holiday or not.
Depends on the type of job (eg hourly, salaried, part time, full time), the state, even the city. Lots of variables as US laws are incredibly fragmented. But generally a full-time salaried employee *could* get as little as 10-days, but as mentioned, lots of variables, and they're most likely low rung jobs. Any supposed management level employee accepting such employment terms only has themselves to blame, or is perhaps not quite at the level they're telling you. I don't know, pure conjecture, but it is based upon my experience of living/working and employing people in the US for the past decade. dvs_dave said:
As always it depends. The oft trotted out yet always misunderstood "you only get 10 days holiday yadda yadda", is because that's the statutory minimum (public holidays basically). However only the lowest rung jobs have that sort of allowance, and the vast majority of jobs are very similar to the UK, ie they start at around 20 days+10 and go from there based on tenure/level. If they didn't do that, they wouldn't be able to attract any sort of talent. For example, at my particular level, I have unlimited vacation time. Just as long as I get my job done is basically the only stipulation. I wouldn't get that in the UK "working for the man", that's for sure!
Regards general quality of life, again its a massive "it depends"....ours is far superior in the USA, than it would be in the UK, absolutely no question, as most professional level and up people with experience of both markets would attest. However if you're on a lower rung of the job ladder, not so much.
I've said it many times before; the USA is a great place to be if you're rich, but a bad place if you're poor. The UK (and other heavy welfare states) is the other way around.
Anyway...we digress.
Moving from fintech in the UK to fintech here, my first year was 5 days of annual leave. 2nd year 10 days and 3rd year 15 days. Hardly anyone takes their full entitlement taking a 2 week vacation is pretty unheard of, I think studies show less than a quarter of Americans take all their entitled time off. I got paid twice what I earned in the UK, but rather than working 9-5 (plus paid overtime), it's 6-5 with unpaid overtime. Last time I had a whole week's vacation was probably 4 or 5 years ago (certainly never taken 2 whole weeks worth of vacation). Regards general quality of life, again its a massive "it depends"....ours is far superior in the USA, than it would be in the UK, absolutely no question, as most professional level and up people with experience of both markets would attest. However if you're on a lower rung of the job ladder, not so much.
I've said it many times before; the USA is a great place to be if you're rich, but a bad place if you're poor. The UK (and other heavy welfare states) is the other way around.
Anyway...we digress.
On the bright shiny surface the quality of life is definitely better for the upper-middle classes. For the lower-class its pretty frikin' terrifying.
dvs_dave said:
bigandclever said:
Pretty sure there is no legal requirement for US employers to give paid vacation time, Federal/State holiday or not.
Depends on the type of job (eg hourly, salaried, part time, full time), the state, even the city. Lots of variables as US laws are incredibly fragmented [snip] it is based upon my experience of living/working and employing people in the US for the past decade. I mean, it hardly matters
Brother D said:
Moving from fintech in the UK to fintech here, my first year was 5 days of annual leave. 2nd year 10 days and 3rd year 15 days. Hardly anyone takes their full entitlement taking a 2 week vacation is pretty unheard of, I think studies show less than a quarter of Americans take all their entitled time off. I got paid twice what I earned in the UK, but rather than working 9-5 (plus paid overtime), it's 6-5 with unpaid overtime. Last time I had a whole week's vacation was probably 4 or 5 years ago (certainly never taken 2 whole weeks worth of vacation).
On the bright shiny surface the quality of life is definitely better for the upper-middle classes. For the lower-class its pretty frikin' terrifying.
None of my business and feel free to ignore as our circles may well cross unbeknownst given our status/locale. But beyond the financials, curious as to why you accepted such poor PTO terms? Are you on some sort of sponsored employment visa where they’ve got you by the balls? By contrast, I work in commercial real estate, and 10 years ago came from London where I had 20 days, to Chicago and started on 20 days (plus 10), which ramped up to 23, 28, to now unlimited, based on tenure and/or level.On the bright shiny surface the quality of life is definitely better for the upper-middle classes. For the lower-class its pretty frikin' terrifying.
Anyway, just goes to show, massive variations out there, and one size does not fit all, which is the US all over. You’re much more on your own to make your own way, which of course has its pluses and minuses.
bigandclever said:
You said the statutory minimum is 10 days, which is incorrect; there’s no legal requirement for paid vacation time; it’s in The Fair Labor Standards Act.
I mean, it hardly matters
Probably shouldn’t have used the word statutory as its governed by local (highly variable) employment laws, not federal ones. Either way, it’s an unimportant tangent.I mean, it hardly matters
Brother D said:
Moving from fintech in the UK to fintech here, my first year was 5 days of annual leave. 2nd year 10 days and 3rd year 15 days. Hardly anyone takes their full entitlement taking a 2 week vacation is pretty unheard of, I think studies show less than a quarter of Americans take all their entitled time off. I got paid twice what I earned in the UK, but rather than working 9-5 (plus paid overtime), it's 6-5 with unpaid overtime. Last time I had a whole week's vacation was probably 4 or 5 years ago (certainly never taken 2 whole weeks worth of vacation).
On the bright shiny surface the quality of life is definitely better for the upper-middle classes. For the lower-class its pretty frikin' terrifying.
Not sure I get what you mean. Do you identify as lower-class as is sounds as if you describe a worse quality of life for you in the US than the UK ?On the bright shiny surface the quality of life is definitely better for the upper-middle classes. For the lower-class its pretty frikin' terrifying.
I'm also somewhat bewildered by this "Americans get no PTO" thing.
When I moved here, my (UK based) employer was very miserly with vacation entitlement and told me I couldn't take Thanksgiving off, because we were a British company - and then said I couldn't have Boxing Day off because I was in the US. My PTO was 15 days.
My first US employer offered me (straight off the bat) 4 weeks (20 days) plus public (not federal) holidays. I could also 'roll' 50% of my PTO entitlement into the following year, if I didn't take it all.
My current US subsidiary of a global corporation employer gives me 5 weeks + public holidays + 5 "personal days" (medical appointments and the like). They also match my 401K and pay me $1000 twice per annum as their contribution to my Health Savings Account.
Like others, I earn a lot more than double that of my UK counterparts. I will echo the statement that this is a wonderful place to live if you are financially comfortable - it is utterly miserable if you are only 'getting by' or worse.
What this has to do with mass shootings, I'm not at all sure, of course...
When I moved here, my (UK based) employer was very miserly with vacation entitlement and told me I couldn't take Thanksgiving off, because we were a British company - and then said I couldn't have Boxing Day off because I was in the US. My PTO was 15 days.
My first US employer offered me (straight off the bat) 4 weeks (20 days) plus public (not federal) holidays. I could also 'roll' 50% of my PTO entitlement into the following year, if I didn't take it all.
My current US subsidiary of a global corporation employer gives me 5 weeks + public holidays + 5 "personal days" (medical appointments and the like). They also match my 401K and pay me $1000 twice per annum as their contribution to my Health Savings Account.
Like others, I earn a lot more than double that of my UK counterparts. I will echo the statement that this is a wonderful place to live if you are financially comfortable - it is utterly miserable if you are only 'getting by' or worse.
What this has to do with mass shootings, I'm not at all sure, of course...
Matt Harper said:
What this has to do with mass shootings, I'm not at all sure, of course...
Good point, blame fttmfttm said:
Quality of life in North America for those willing to work knocks spots of the UK
but maybe the lack of downtime drives some crazy Edited by Gary C on Saturday 26th June 02:27
Ha , don't blame me fella . It just pisses me off that some posters seem to enjoy taking a dig at the good ole USofA whilst knowing SFA about the place apart from what a friend/distant relative said , whilst living in the over crowded st hole that Britain has become . 48 days vacation here btw .
t hole that Britain has become . 48 days vacation here btw .fttm said:
Ha , don't blame me fella . It just pisses me off that some posters seem to enjoy taking a dig at the good ole USofA whilst knowing SFA about the place apart from what a friend/distant relative said , whilst living in the over crowded st hole that Britain has become . 48 days vacation here btw .
ft hole that Britain has become . 48 days vacation here btw .k off.in the nicest possible way of course
Just to wrap up the PTO discussion, the U.S gov doesn’t require employers to provide any time off whereas the U.K. mandates a minimum of 28 days. The average U.S. PTO is 9.7 days of which most Americans say they don’t fully use.
Data here: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/07/23/pai...
Data here: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/07/23/pai...
Bad guy hates police and wants to kill lots of them so bad guy kills an officer.
Good guy hero doesn't think this is on so he gets his gun and kills bad guy.
Other police arrive, see good guy hero who has now picked up bad guys AR15 so they then kill him.
Just a regular day in the US, nothing to see here.
http://news.sky.com/story/hero-who-gunned-down-cop...
Good guy hero doesn't think this is on so he gets his gun and kills bad guy.
Other police arrive, see good guy hero who has now picked up bad guys AR15 so they then kill him.
Just a regular day in the US, nothing to see here.
http://news.sky.com/story/hero-who-gunned-down-cop...
Last Visit said:
Bad guy hates police and wants to kill lots of them so bad guy kills an officer.
Good guy hero doesn't think this is on so he gets his gun and kills bad guy.
Other police arrive, see good guy hero who has now picked up bad guys AR15 so they then kill him.
Just a regular day in the US, nothing to see here.
http://news.sky.com/story/hero-who-gunned-down-cop...
Sadly, for some reason I get the impression that you really enjoyed writing that.Good guy hero doesn't think this is on so he gets his gun and kills bad guy.
Other police arrive, see good guy hero who has now picked up bad guys AR15 so they then kill him.
Just a regular day in the US, nothing to see here.
http://news.sky.com/story/hero-who-gunned-down-cop...
Last Visit said:
Bad guy hates police and wants to kill lots of them so bad guy kills an officer.
Good guy hero doesn't think this is on so he gets his gun and kills bad guy.
Other police arrive, see good guy hero who has now picked up bad guys AR15 so they then kill him.
Just a regular day in the US, nothing to see here.
http://news.sky.com/story/hero-who-gunned-down-cop...
Yep….unfortunately (obviously) it comes with the territory. Gun owners are much more likely to be shot than non gun owners. Carrying a gun, the odds are even worse, regardless of circumstance.Good guy hero doesn't think this is on so he gets his gun and kills bad guy.
Other police arrive, see good guy hero who has now picked up bad guys AR15 so they then kill him.
Just a regular day in the US, nothing to see here.
http://news.sky.com/story/hero-who-gunned-down-cop...
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