The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread

[APontus]

Not sure how obvious this thought is, but human beings have a habit of falling out with each other. If they are both armed, this gives rise to a fear the other may strike first, with lethal force, so the onus is on defensive escalation the moment you feel threatened. If you don't, the implication in delay is death. In other words, both the aggressor and defender are motivated to strike first.

If you want evidence, just look at the story above or US crime stats more generally.

[g4ry13]

Matt Harper said:

Last Visit said:

Bad guy hates police and wants to kill lots of them so bad guy kills an officer.
Good guy hero doesn't think this is on so he gets his gun and kills bad guy.
Other police arrive, see good guy hero who has now picked up bad guys AR15 so they then kill him.

Just a regular day in the US, nothing to see here.

http://news.sky.com/story/hero-who-gunned-down-cop...

Sadly, for some reason I get the impression that you really enjoyed writing that.

I get the impression some people excitedly refresh for US shootings every day so they can come and post here.

[skwdenyer]

Matt Harper said:

What this has to do with mass shootings, I'm not at all sure, of course...

Matt Harper said:

it is utterly miserable if you are only 'getting by' or worse

I think you've answered your own question. "Utterly miserable" + "unlimited gun ownership" sounds like a perfect recipe for the occasional mass shooting...

[Gary C]

dvs_dave said:

Yep….unfortunately (obviously) it comes with the territory. Gun owners are much more likely to be shot than non gun owners. Carrying a gun, the odds are even worse, regardless of circumstance.

and thats a good thing and a reason to allow civillians to have guns ?

or a bad thing and a reason to control guns to a similar level as the UK (well, maybe not quite that far )

[Matt Harper]

skwdenyer said:

I think you've answered your own question. "Utterly miserable" + "unlimited gun ownership" sounds like a perfect recipe for the occasional mass shooting...

I don't think that mass shootings are a product of people being skint. I think they have more to do with gang warfare and serious mental illness.

[Iminquarantine]

Best paid time off entitlements I’ve ever had, was an American company. Infact best work environment of any job I’ve had. Only moved because eventually the project came to an end.

[Iminquarantine]

dvs_dave said:

Last Visit said:

Bad guy hates police and wants to kill lots of them so bad guy kills an officer.
Good guy hero doesn't think this is on so he gets his gun and kills bad guy.
Other police arrive, see good guy hero who has now picked up bad guys AR15 so they then kill him.

Just a regular day in the US, nothing to see here.

http://news.sky.com/story/hero-who-gunned-down-cop...

Yep….unfortunately (obviously) it comes with the territory. Gun owners are much more likely to be shot than non gun owners. Carrying a gun, the odds are even worse, regardless of circumstance.

There’s every chance that could happen anywhere. If there are dead people laying around and you have a weapon when police arrive...... never a good look.

[Last Visit]

Iminquarantine said:

dvs_dave said:

Last Visit said:

Bad guy hates police and wants to kill lots of them so bad guy kills an officer.
Good guy hero doesn't think this is on so he gets his gun and kills bad guy.
Other police arrive, see good guy hero who has now picked up bad guys AR15 so they then kill him.

Just a regular day in the US, nothing to see here.

http://news.sky.com/story/hero-who-gunned-down-cop...

Yep….unfortunately (obviously) it comes with the territory. Gun owners are much more likely to be shot than non gun owners. Carrying a gun, the odds are even worse, regardless of circumstance.

There’s every chance that could happen anywhere. If there are dead people laying around and you have a weapon when police arrive...... never a good look.

Which was my intended point in posting details of this particular incident insofar as it doesnt fit the definition (as I recall) of a mass shooting. However as there are arguments made for how more good people with firearms makes US society safer, this tragic incident highlights the dangers of this when police turn up, also of course with firearms. With the chance they make the wrong call as to who is bad and who isn't.

[MKnight702]

Last Visit said:

Which was my intended point in posting details of this particular incident insofar as it doesnt fit the definition (as I recall) of a mass shooting. However as there are arguments made for how more good people with firearms makes US society safer, this tragic incident highlights the dangers of this when police turn up, also of course with firearms. With the chance they make the wrong call as to who is bad and who isn't.

Presumably when the Police turned up the good guy wasn't waiving the AR15 around threatening to shoot more people, more likely, he was stood over the bad guy with the gun pointed in a safe direction welcoming the arrival of the Police. In which case, what justification do the Police have for shooting first and not bothering to ask any questions later? The lack of any real decent training or apparent standards in the US Police is getting to be a real issue, this needs to be addressed as a matter of urgent concern.

[The Rotrex Kid]

MKnight702 said:

Last Visit said:

Which was my intended point in posting details of this particular incident insofar as it doesnt fit the definition (as I recall) of a mass shooting. However as there are arguments made for how more good people with firearms makes US society safer, this tragic incident highlights the dangers of this when police turn up, also of course with firearms. With the chance they make the wrong call as to who is bad and who isn't.

Presumably when the Police turned up the good guy wasn't waiving the AR15 around threatening to shoot more people, more likely, he was stood over the bad guy with the gun pointed in a safe direction welcoming the arrival of the Police. In which case, what justification do the Police have for shooting first and not bothering to ask any questions later? The lack of any real decent training or apparent standards in the US Police is getting to be a real issue, this needs to be addressed as a matter of urgent concern.

The US police are damned if they do, damned if they don't

In a world where every man and his mum has a gun and they could get killed at every opportunity it's no real shock that the default stance seems to be shoot first-ask questions later. Better off being still breathing and answering questions than being a bullet ridden corpse yourself. That's the price for freedom. Who'd be a cop in the US?

[skwdenyer]

Matt Harper said:

skwdenyer said:

I think you've answered your own question. "Utterly miserable" + "unlimited gun ownership" sounds like a perfect recipe for the occasional mass shooting...

I don't think that mass shootings are a product of people being skint. I think they have more to do with gang warfare and serious mental illness.

I said nothing about skint; I took miserable in a broader context. Of the mass shootings I recall, few had much to do with gangs. And as for serious mental illness, this seems largely to be diagnosed post hoc - "he must have been in mental crisis to shoot all those people and then kill himself" - rather than being something identified ahead of time. The USA seems to be able to produce a lot of disgruntled people; coupled with unlimited gun ownership, there's a hot mess right there.

[Byker28i]

I think the problem is that whilst there are rules that allow lobbiests to back their proposals with money, whilst it doesn't affect those that are enjoying deregulated gun access, it's never going tochange. Even simple requirements like a searchable database of owners/weapons isn't allowed.

There needs to be a major step change in US politics for this to happen, but whilst there's so much money to be made, so many greedy people, it's not going to happen

[Gary C]

The Rotrex Kid said:

MKnight702 said:

Last Visit said:

Which was my intended point in posting details of this particular incident insofar as it doesnt fit the definition (as I recall) of a mass shooting. However as there are arguments made for how more good people with firearms makes US society safer, this tragic incident highlights the dangers of this when police turn up, also of course with firearms. With the chance they make the wrong call as to who is bad and who isn't.

Presumably when the Police turned up the good guy wasn't waiving the AR15 around threatening to shoot more people, more likely, he was stood over the bad guy with the gun pointed in a safe direction welcoming the arrival of the Police. In which case, what justification do the Police have for shooting first and not bothering to ask any questions later? The lack of any real decent training or apparent standards in the US Police is getting to be a real issue, this needs to be addressed as a matter of urgent concern.

The US police are damned if they do, damned if they don't

In a world where every man and his mum has a gun and they could get killed at every opportunity it's no real shock that the default stance seems to be shoot first-ask questions later. Better off being still breathing and answering questions than being a bullet ridden corpse yourself. That's the price for freedom. Who'd be a cop in the US?

Its utter madness.

[Byker28i]

Shootout in traffic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6OcoV4Xhc8

[Matt Harper]

The Rotrex Kid said:

The US police are damned if they do, damned if they don't

I Who'd be a cop in the US?

Thankfully, there are some who are prepared to take risks to uphold law, despite it being a dangerous, thankless and often very depressing vocation.
My daughter is one of them.

[Dagnir]

Byker28i said:

Shootout in traffic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6OcoV4Xhc8

Animals...

[bigandclever]

Dagnir said:

Byker28i said:

Shootout in traffic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6OcoV4Xhc8

Animals...

Probably shouldn’t laugh that they have gunfire sound sensors on the traffic lights, but bloody hell.

[pokethepope]

bigandclever said:

Probably shouldn’t laugh that they have gunfire sound sensors on the traffic lights, but bloody hell.

Never heard of these before. Absolutely crazy.

[skwdenyer]

pokethepope said:

bigandclever said:

Probably shouldn’t laugh that they have gunfire sound sensors on the traffic lights, but bloody hell.

Never heard of these before. Absolutely crazy.

It isn't just at traffic lights. The idea is to cover as wide an area as possible with such sensors. When shots are detected, if they're picked up by multiple sensors then some rapid triangulation can give a pretty good fix on the likely location of trouble.

[Brother D]

skwdenyer said:

pokethepope said:

bigandclever said:

Probably shouldn’t laugh that they have gunfire sound sensors on the traffic lights, but bloody hell.

Never heard of these before. Absolutely crazy.

It isn't just at traffic lights. The idea is to cover as wide an area as possible with such sensors. When shots are detected, if they're picked up by multiple sensors then some rapid triangulation can give a pretty good fix on the likely location of trouble.

This happened last week - shot spotter as it's called is pretty good. https://www.shotspotter.com/platform/

Last weekend was busy with 78 people shot (8 deceased) and four mass shootings and 10 people shot in just one of those which upped the numbers.

One thing that is massively lacking is CCTV in the city, and they still don't have any kind of ANPR system in place to help with all the freeway shootings (a neighbor was recently shot at leaving several bullet holes in their car).