The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread
Discussion
NMNeil said:
Countdown said:
Banning them will make it much harder for loons to get hold of them which will reduce the number of fatalities. (I don't think anybody has suggested it will eliminate them).
p.s. the "solution" is there but there aren't any votes in it.
Where there's a will, there's a way.p.s. the "solution" is there but there aren't any votes in it.
Of course you could ban Youtube or close all the hardware stores.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8IzRT_4rgs
And if they banned guns, the f
ksticks would simply turn to something else.https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-5597056...
The ban on knives in the UK simply is'nt working, neither is your ban on guns.
But rather than go back and forward with an endless argument, does anyone have an answer that would work, the world would love to cure the madness of one person killing another, no matter the weapon used?
ks. There were in 2020, there were 719 homicides in England and Wales. That was less than Missouri who had 723. England and Wales have a population of approx 55 million. Missouri has approx 6 million. England and Wales alone has fewer murders than the 18th most populous state in the US. The most populous state remains California, at 39 million (again, approx).
So we're not living in fear of knife killers around the corner at around 1.2 murders per 100,000 pop, compared to the US which is 6 murders per 100,000 pop.
As someone trained in self defence, I fancy my chances against someone who has a knife vs someone who has a gun for the simple reason that if you've only got a knife, you've got to get very, very, close to me. I like the fact I can go out into the dodgiest parts of London with nothing more than my wits and knowledge safe in the fact that I can survive any potential attack.
Murder in the US by state:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195331/number-...
Murders in England and Wales:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/283093/homicid...
Couldn't be arsed finding the whole of UK, but Statista is known for rigging things to make the US look better. Happy to give my opponents the advantage here.
captain_cynic said:
As someone trained in self defence, I fancy my chances against someone who has a knife vs someone who has a gun for the simple reason that if you've only got a knife, you've got to get very, very, close to me. I like the fact I can go out into the dodgiest parts of London with nothing more than my wits and knowledge safe in the fact that I can survive any potential attack.
Out of curiosity (and a London dweller), what would you count as London's "dodgiest parts"?It's all so sanitised now compared to 30 years ago imho.
Evanivitch said:
UK doesn't have a ban on knives or guns, just far stricter type and ownership laws than the US.
I could legally own anything from a shotgun, a revolver or a .50 cal bolt action in the UK.
Perhaps I should have said most knives.I could legally own anything from a shotgun, a revolver or a .50 cal bolt action in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
And I stand corrected about firearms. If you can show a reason why you want one you still have to ask permission first before they will grant a license.
But your choices seem to be limited, with no Glocks allowed. Just seems odd to me having to ask permission and have the police over to your house to see if you're a worthy person in their opinion.
But even with all those restrictions 6 died in Plymouth by the hand of someone deemed worthy, so all those restrictions didn't work.
Evanivitch said:
NMNeil said:
And there's also the misconception that guns are easy to get legally. When I go to my local store to buy one I have to fill out this form.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-fire...
Wait while the ATF review it (Can take a few hours) and if approved it's mine, but if I want to sell it later I have to go through much the same process again.
So you don't just walk into a gun store, plonk down the money and they just give you the gun.
It only takes a few hours for your nationwide criminal record, medical records and any counter-terrorism intelligence on your name, address and associates to be found, reviewed, approved and released? I think not...https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-fire...
Wait while the ATF review it (Can take a few hours) and if approved it's mine, but if I want to sell it later I have to go through much the same process again.
So you don't just walk into a gun store, plonk down the money and they just give you the gun.
NMNeil said:
Evanivitch said:
UK doesn't have a ban on knives or guns, just far stricter type and ownership laws than the US.
I could legally own anything from a shotgun, a revolver or a .50 cal bolt action in the UK.
Perhaps I should have said most knives.I could legally own anything from a shotgun, a revolver or a .50 cal bolt action in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
And I stand corrected about firearms. If you can show a reason why you want one you still have to ask permission first before they will grant a license.
But your choices seem to be limited, with no Glocks allowed. Just seems odd to me having to ask permission and have the police over to your house to see if you're a worthy person in their opinion.
But even with all those restrictions 6 died in Plymouth by the hand of someone deemed worthy, so all those restrictions didn't work.
In fact, most countries react to mass shootings by reviewing the rules and changing them to reduce the odds of it happening again. Only one major Western country seems unable to do this.
NMNeil said:
Evanivitch said:
UK doesn't have a ban on knives or guns, just far stricter type and ownership laws than the US.
I could legally own anything from a shotgun, a revolver or a .50 cal bolt action in the UK.
But even with all those restrictions 6 died in Plymouth by the hand of someone deemed worthy, so all those restrictions didn't work.I could legally own anything from a shotgun, a revolver or a .50 cal bolt action in the UK.
5 folks died that day, I'm not counting the death of the gunman.
That was the only mass shooting in the UK in the 2020's. There were two in 2011-2020, and one during 2000-2010. 4 incidents in the last 20 years.
The USA:
202 mass shootings in the first four months of 2022 alone; 221 dead and 790 injured.
Small price to pay to maintain an illusion of "freedom" I suppose.
Sadly my turn this today (only a matter of time I suppose).
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/15/us/orange-county-ca...
This is 4 miles from my house on a road I use most days and church I pass all the time.
As a Brit living in the US I find this difficult to understand… yet… I actively choose to live here for the overall benefit of my family (lifestyle, opportunities, jobs etc..)
Is it worth it? I suppose we accept the risk on a daily basis… hoping that day never happens to us, or in my daughter school, or in my local super market…
Yet again we discuss around the dinner table tonight if we should move back.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/15/us/orange-county-ca...
This is 4 miles from my house on a road I use most days and church I pass all the time.
As a Brit living in the US I find this difficult to understand… yet… I actively choose to live here for the overall benefit of my family (lifestyle, opportunities, jobs etc..)
Is it worth it? I suppose we accept the risk on a daily basis… hoping that day never happens to us, or in my daughter school, or in my local super market…
Yet again we discuss around the dinner table tonight if we should move back.
MMNeil trotting out the same tired arguments, that he repeats everytime there's a mass shooting "Not as bad as you though..."
I've just waiting for the "What can possibly be done" in the only country where this is a regular occurance... where schoolchildren have to practice active shooter drills from an early age...
Edit: Fox News is again blaming video games for mass shootings like those in Buffalo and Laguna Woods, with a host saying that they’ve become “so realistic and so violent” that they’ve “de-sensitized” people to violence.
I've just waiting for the "What can possibly be done" in the only country where this is a regular occurance... where schoolchildren have to practice active shooter drills from an early age...
Edit: Fox News is again blaming video games for mass shootings like those in Buffalo and Laguna Woods, with a host saying that they’ve become “so realistic and so violent” that they’ve “de-sensitized” people to violence.
Edited by Byker28i on Monday 16th May 06:34
InformationSuperHighway said:
Sadly my turn this today (only a matter of time I suppose).
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/15/us/orange-county-ca...
This is 4 miles from my house on a road I use most days and church I pass all the time.
As a Brit living in the US I find this difficult to understand… yet… I actively choose to live here for the overall benefit of my family (lifestyle, opportunities, jobs etc..)
Is it worth it? I suppose we accept the risk on a daily basis… hoping that day never happens to us, or in my daughter school, or in my local super market…
Yet again we discuss around the dinner table tonight if we should move back.
Didn't need a 'good guy with a gun' member of the congregation hogtied the shooter with an extension cable. All really old people killed and injured again.https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/15/us/orange-county-ca...
This is 4 miles from my house on a road I use most days and church I pass all the time.
As a Brit living in the US I find this difficult to understand… yet… I actively choose to live here for the overall benefit of my family (lifestyle, opportunities, jobs etc..)
Is it worth it? I suppose we accept the risk on a daily basis… hoping that day never happens to us, or in my daughter school, or in my local super market…
Yet again we discuss around the dinner table tonight if we should move back.
I see the Washington Post running with how the No. 3 House Republican, Elise Stefanik has echoed the white replacement racist theory used by Buffalo suspect.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/15...
OzzyR1 said:
NMNeil said:
Evanivitch said:
UK doesn't have a ban on knives or guns, just far stricter type and ownership laws than the US.
I could legally own anything from a shotgun, a revolver or a .50 cal bolt action in the UK.
But even with all those restrictions 6 died in Plymouth by the hand of someone deemed worthy, so all those restrictions didn't work.I could legally own anything from a shotgun, a revolver or a .50 cal bolt action in the UK.
5 folks died that day, I'm not counting the death of the gunman.
That was the only mass shooting in the UK in the 2020's. There were two in 2011-2020, and one during 2000-2010. 4 incidents in the last 20 years.
The USA:
202 mass shootings in the first four months of 2022 alone; 221 dead and 790 injured.
Small price to pay to maintain an illusion of "freedom" I suppose.
Neil says it’s such a HUGE ISSUE so it just be true.
NMNeil said:
Perhaps I should have said most knives.
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
And I stand corrected about firearms. If you can show a reason why you want one you still have to ask permission first before they will grant a license.
But your choices seem to be limited, with no Glocks allowed. Just seems odd to me having to ask permission and have the police over to your house to see if you're a worthy person in their opinion.
But even with all those restrictions 6 died in Plymouth by the hand of someone deemed worthy, so all those restrictions didn't work.
I guess with the nonsense you’re posting we can see why the US has the problems it does. https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
And I stand corrected about firearms. If you can show a reason why you want one you still have to ask permission first before they will grant a license.
But your choices seem to be limited, with no Glocks allowed. Just seems odd to me having to ask permission and have the police over to your house to see if you're a worthy person in their opinion.
But even with all those restrictions 6 died in Plymouth by the hand of someone deemed worthy, so all those restrictions didn't work.
“ 'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens…..”
I see Fox were called out on their hosts promoting the white replacement theory by Jim Acosta.
The question was asked: When will News Corp stop funding Fox News to promote theories that only divide and create tribalism?
Specifically called out Carlson, showing clips of him pushing this
The question was asked: When will News Corp stop funding Fox News to promote theories that only divide and create tribalism?
Specifically called out Carlson, showing clips of him pushing this
Gweeds said:
NMNeil said:
Perhaps I should have said most knives.
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
And I stand corrected about firearms. If you can show a reason why you want one you still have to ask permission first before they will grant a license.
But your choices seem to be limited, with no Glocks allowed. Just seems odd to me having to ask permission and have the police over to your house to see if you're a worthy person in their opinion.
But even with all those restrictions 6 died in Plymouth by the hand of someone deemed worthy, so all those restrictions didn't work.
I guess with the nonsense you’re posting we can see why the US has the problems it does. https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
And I stand corrected about firearms. If you can show a reason why you want one you still have to ask permission first before they will grant a license.
But your choices seem to be limited, with no Glocks allowed. Just seems odd to me having to ask permission and have the police over to your house to see if you're a worthy person in their opinion.
But even with all those restrictions 6 died in Plymouth by the hand of someone deemed worthy, so all those restrictions didn't work.
“ 'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens…..”
We have doctors checks to make sure we don't have a history of mental issues. We have checks on the house and interviews for any firearm, shotgun or rifle etc.
Knife crime, around 41000 offences in the latest stats, 224 deaths with a sharp instrument, which is knives, broken bottles, screwdrivers etc
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-brie...
Yet in the US, around 54% of deaths, over 24,000 are suicides... 79% of all murders are with guns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-4148808...
djc206 said:
NMNeil said:
Where there's a will, there's a way.
Of course you could ban Youtube or close all the hardware stores.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8IzRT_4rgs
And if they banned guns, the fksticks would simply turn to something else.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-5597056...
The ban on knives in the UK simply is'nt working, neither is your ban on guns.
But rather than go back and forward with an endless argument, does anyone have an answer that would work, the world would love to cure the madness of one person killing another, no matter the weapon used?
Honestly I think it’s too late. There are so many guns in the US that a ban would have very little real effect in the short to medium term.Of course you could ban Youtube or close all the hardware stores.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8IzRT_4rgs
And if they banned guns, the f
ksticks would simply turn to something else.https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-5597056...
The ban on knives in the UK simply is'nt working, neither is your ban on guns.
But rather than go back and forward with an endless argument, does anyone have an answer that would work, the world would love to cure the madness of one person killing another, no matter the weapon used?
Guns are a very efficient way of killing people so although the f
ksticks would turn to something else (as they do in the U.K. with knives) the something else is considerably harder to use and considerably harder to use on multiple targets.The US and U.K. knife murder rates are about the same btw but the US has guns on top. That’s not to say that our knife laws have much effect
I’m not sure how you can conclude that U.K. firearms laws don’t work. They alter the risk/reward ratio and the cost is prohibitive for low level criminals.
https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-...
Halmyre said:
NMNeil said:
Countdown said:
Banning them will make it much harder for loons to get hold of them which will reduce the number of fatalities. (I don't think anybody has suggested it will eliminate them).
p.s. the "solution" is there but there aren't any votes in it.
Where there's a will, there's a way.p.s. the "solution" is there but there aren't any votes in it.
Of course you could ban Youtube or close all the hardware stores.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8IzRT_4rgs
And if they banned guns, the f
ksticks would simply turn to something else.https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-5597056...
The ban on knives in the UK simply is'nt working, neither is your ban on guns.
NMNeil said:
Perhaps I should have said most knives.
https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
And I stand corrected about firearms. If you can show a reason why you want one you still have to ask permission first before they will grant a license.
But your choices seem to be limited, with no Glocks allowed. Just seems odd to me having to ask permission and have the police over to your house to see if you're a worthy person in their opinion.
But even with all those restrictions 6 died in Plymouth by the hand of someone deemed worthy, so all those restrictions didn't work.
5 plus the perp in Plymouth. A tragic event but mercifully rare, the next most recent fatal mass shooting being 11 years before that one. As much as you might like to point at outlier events and claim they’re evidence that the rules don’t work that I can name all of the fatal mass shootings in this country in my lifetime off the top of my head suggests otherwise.https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives
And I stand corrected about firearms. If you can show a reason why you want one you still have to ask permission first before they will grant a license.
But your choices seem to be limited, with no Glocks allowed. Just seems odd to me having to ask permission and have the police over to your house to see if you're a worthy person in their opinion.
But even with all those restrictions 6 died in Plymouth by the hand of someone deemed worthy, so all those restrictions didn't work.
We also have one of the lowest gun murder rates in the world, 30 in the year to March ‘20, a quick look at the Wikipedia list has more dead in mass shootings in the US in the last fortnight! There hasn’t been a murder with a firearm in London in over 6 months. Fewer murders in total with any weapon in our country of 65m+ than those committed with just guns in Chicago last year. Yeah we’re the ones with the system that doesn’t work…
andyA700 said:
US knife murders are higher than the UK at 4.96 per million, compared to UK at 3.26 per million. The UK is simply a far less violent place than the US. The availability of guns makes it far easier for lunatics to commit mass murder.
https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-...
Thanks, it’s clearly gone up since I last looked. I think the last stats I found had us level pegged. The U.K. murder rate seems to have fallen during covid and stayed low, the US has risen so that would make sense.https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-...
Byker28i said:
Its the same tired excuses he makes
We have doctors checks to make sure we don't have a history of mental issues. We have checks on the house and interviews for any firearm, shotgun or rifle etc.
Knife crime, around 41000 offences in the latest stats, 224 deaths with a sharp instrument, which is knives, broken bottles, screwdrivers etc
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-brie...
Yet in the US, around 54% of deaths, over 24,000 are suicides... 79% of all murders are with guns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-4148808...
The whole knife argument, when applied to gun ownership is a squirrel.We have doctors checks to make sure we don't have a history of mental issues. We have checks on the house and interviews for any firearm, shotgun or rifle etc.
Knife crime, around 41000 offences in the latest stats, 224 deaths with a sharp instrument, which is knives, broken bottles, screwdrivers etc
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-brie...
Yet in the US, around 54% of deaths, over 24,000 are suicides... 79% of all murders are with guns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-4148808...
Like the whole "you could kill someone with a baseball bat, so why ban guns"?
Because you can't kill someone and several others, from 150m with a baseball bat
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