The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread

[dvs_dave]

Electro1980 said:

dvs_dave said:

It seems to be true that that the big ticket events are most likely to be white perps, but the volume of cases being white perps I'm highly skeptical of. A breakdown of this data is certainly conspicuous by its absence. Even just anecdotally speaking, living in Chicago, you hear about local gangland mass shootings of '4 or more' pretty often, which is business-as-usual in certain parts of the city.

So, the evidence doesn’t support your belief, so you dismiss the evidence?

No, the available evidence is unsatisfactory. HTH.

[HM-2]

dvs_dave said:

It seems that it's tough to actually find any stats on that, and then there's a fair bit of ambiguity around what counts as a mass shooting. For example look at the chart contained in the below Statista link that plots mass shooting demographics since 1982.

The point about definitions is a fair one, but one that cuts both ways. I suspect they've used a methodology that excludes terrorism, gang-related violence, familicide and school shootings (which are often categorised separately) and are only recording incidents with 4 or more deaths, which seems to be a metric that's been used by other organisations too.

So yes, you may well be excluding gang-related violence from the stats. But you're also excluding familicide, terrorism and other things that "most" normal people would consider to be examples of "mass shootings". And all a lack of agreed definition does is render statements like the one you made difficult-to-impossible to support with evidence. There's a wider question about why you'd want to exclude anything from the figures, or whether ignoring incidental deaths of innocent people just because of their physical proximity to gangbangers at their time of death actually makes any degree of sense, or whether a "mass shooting" ceases to be a societal or cultural concern when those involved (both as perpetrators and targets) are career criminals.

dvs_dave said:

It seems to be true that that the big ticket events are most likely to be white perps, but the volume of cases being white perps I'm highly skeptical of.

Statistically speaking it is highly likely, based on the racial demographics of incidents of murder in general in the US, that an outright majority of mass shootings of any kind, including gangland violence, are perpetrated by white individuals. What I cannot say is whether other ethnicities are disproportionately represented within the wider statistical figures, because that data is not there.

I would go so far as to say that it is (statistically speaking) likely that an outright majority of incidents that fit the definition of "mass shooting" (3 or more people shot in a single incident regardless of circumstances) were incidents of familicide. Analysis of mass murder incidents between 1900 and 2000 (defined as four fatalities attributable to the same killer within a 24 hour period) concluded more than 50% were cases of familicide, and I see no reason to believe that is less applicable to mass shooting incidents that don't meet the threshold of four dead.

[ZedLeg]

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1526735919230...

Another one from this weekend with connections to white supremacy.

I see people are still conflating this ideologically driven terrorism with America’s general issue with gun violence. This is part of the problem imo. People try and minimise the larger cultural issues behind one while moving the emphasis on to violence in communities that are largely poc. It’s all terrible, but not all shootings are the same.

[Murph7355]

HM-2 said:

Murph7355 said:

Is that "190" shooters, killing 200+/injuring 850+? Nationally it's a tiny, tiny fraction of the population.

But it's a far, far larger proportion of the population than anywhere else in the developed world. "Let's handwave away hundreds of mass shooting deaths and refuse to address the underlying causes because hey, it's not that big a proportion of the population dying every year" seems a slightly bonkers approach to me.

Which isn't what I said in context.

I was suggesting how the gun lobby will do just what you say.

Anyway, catching up on the news this morning, the one who did the Texas salon doesn't look much like a white supremacist to me....

For all the good things that happen in Western society, we seem awfully ill prepared on the data front to assess this stuff properly. We can use computers to get cars to drive themselves, space rockets to land themselves and missiles to guide themselves to blow st up, but we're still unable to determine why this sort of thing happens and stop it.

Either we can't be arsed, we know the answers but are afraid to broadcast them or the answers don't have easy causes.

[jdw100]

Shaw Tarse said:

The Rotrex Kid said:

I'm pretty sure Neil has used the 'people get killed with cars so we should ban cars as well?!' argument before as well.

Or dogs?

Eagles.

Remember when maniacs would release eagles into schools, churches, supermarkets, cinemas etc...?

Hundreds killed and injured every year.

Nothing could be done though. Thoughts and prayers..obviously.

I used my eagles for hunting and others had eagles in the house to make them feel safer. Went to eagle shows; a good day out.

My right to own an eagle. My right to have my young kids trained with eagles from a young age. Not like I would leave an eagle out of a locked cage. Well, I mean we do at night, in case of HOME INVASION!!!, but I trust my kids not to get too near. Other people's kids don't always listen and get their hands on eagles at home. Not mine though.

Just a few crazy people. Eagles don't kill, people do.

I know there are very few eagle related fatalities in other countries, but these countries have no freedom.

Come for my eagle? You'll have to prise it out my cold dead hands...inside a leather gauntlet.


(This post was funded by the Eagle Food Manufacturers Association)

[Byker28i]

ZedLeg said:

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1526735919230...

Another one from this weekend with connections to white supremacy.

I see people are still conflating this ideologically driven terrorism with America’s general issue with gun violence. This is part of the problem imo. People try and minimise the larger cultural issues behind one while moving the emphasis on to violence in communities that are largely poc. It’s all terrible, but not all shootings are the same.

It's the rhetoric those on the right are using though, the constant push of this, which algorithms push to people, or they search out to confirm their beliefs.

CPAC 2022 panel discussions were things like "Domestic Terrorists Unite: Lessons From Virginia Parents"; Now Do You Understand Why We Have a Second Amendment?".

Many claim that trumps insurrection wasn't violent, or it was an FBI false flag, or even that it was acceptable because...

The neo-Nazi website The Daily Stormer promotes Tucker Carlson, its founder, Andrew Anglin, has said, “Tucker Carlson is literally our greatest ally.”

Arizona GOP Sen. Wendy Rogers, already censured in march for her repeated repeated tweets and statements that promoted white nationalism and called for violence, tweted “Fed boy summer has started in Buffalo,” yet local GOP say calls for her to face explusion were Dems playing politics.

You've got GOP's Qanon specialist Marjorie Taylor Greene and insurrectionist Paul Gosar addressing a conference organized by Nick Fuentes, a prominent White nationalist in February, without any pushback by GOP leadership

You've the third in the GOP house pushing white replacement ads, with the response again being that any criticism is a political move...
https://www.newsweek.com/elise-stefanik-blasted-de...

There's a steady push, thinking it'll get them votes from the base, holding onto the base, but it's opened a whole new problem - but they don't care...
Many believe this

[AW111]

One telling thing about the white replacement panic - it assumes all those non-white people will automatically vote Democrat, hence the "we'll never have a Republican government again" scare.

Surely a sane party would try as get those coloured people to vote for them?

[paulguitar]

AW111 said:

Surely a sane party

The crux of it there?

[ZedLeg]

AW111 said:

One telling thing about the white replacement panic - it assumes all those non-white people will automatically vote Democrat, hence the "we'll never have a Republican government again" scare.

Surely a sane party would try as get those coloured people to vote for them?

They’re not interested in it, even the old, not (as) crazy republicans believe the core of the party should be WASPs.

AFAIK the only real base the gop has among poc is with Cuban immigrants in Florida. They all hate Castro so much that anyone left of Reagan is a communist.

[ZedLeg]

White anglo saxon protestant

[Byker28i]

Interesting. New York AG James has announced her office is going to investigate the social media companies that the Buffalo shooter used to plan, promote, and stream his terror attack, Twitch, 4chan, 8chan, and Discord.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NewYorkStateAG/status/1...

Should add Fox News and especially Tucker Carlson. Someones counted over 400 times he's pushed white replacement

[g4ry13]

Byker28i said:

Interesting. New York AG James has announced her office is going to investigate the social media companies that the Buffalo shooter used to plan, promote, and stream his terror attack, Twitch, 4chan, 8chan, and Discord.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NewYorkStateAG/status/1...

Should add Fox News and especially Tucker Carlson. Someones counted over 400 times he's pushed white replacement

What an utterly pointless investigation. May as well throw Meta in there too. James may also want to do his research first and find that 8chan doesn't exist.

[paulguitar]

g4ry13 said:

James may also want to do his research first and find that 8chan doesn't exist.

You might want to do your research and find out AG James is female.

[g4ry13]

paulguitar said:

g4ry13 said:

James may also want to do his research first and find that 8chan doesn't exist.

You might want to do your research and find out AG James is female.

But does AG James identify as female?

[paulguitar]

g4ry13 said:

paulguitar said:

g4ry13 said:

James may also want to do his research first and find that 8chan doesn't exist.

You might want to do your research and find out AG James is female.

But does AG James identify as female?

I don't understand why you ask that question?

[g4ry13]

paulguitar said:

g4ry13 said:

paulguitar said:

g4ry13 said:

James may also want to do his research first and find that 8chan doesn't exist.

You might want to do your research and find out AG James is female.

But does AG James identify as female?

I don't understand why you ask that question?

Never mind.....it was merely a joke that just because someone presents as female, in this day and age they can identify as another gender.

[paulguitar]

g4ry13 said:

Never mind.....it was merely a joke that just because someone presents as female, in this day and age they can identify as another gender.

Ah, okay. I'm just waking up so it might be partly my fault

[Byker28i]

g4ry13 said:

Byker28i said:

Interesting. New York AG James has announced her office is going to investigate the social media companies that the Buffalo shooter used to plan, promote, and stream his terror attack, Twitch, 4chan, 8chan, and Discord.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NewYorkStateAG/status/1...

Should add Fox News and especially Tucker Carlson. Someones counted over 400 times he's pushed white replacement

What an utterly pointless investigation. May as well throw Meta in there too. James may also want to do his research first and find that 8chan doesn't exist.

And yet the founder Brennan called the rebranding to 8kun as pointless as everyone still knew it as 8chan, wouldn't change it's rputation and was for a long time a home for Qanon, conspiracy theorists, planners of trumps insurrection magamob...

Certainly needs investigating, whether it needs shutting down if it's a source of unencrypted idiots planning crimes is another matter.

[williamp]

ZedLeg said:

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1526735919230...

Another one from this weekend with connections to white supremacy.

I see people are still conflating this ideologically driven terrorism with America’s general issue with gun violence. This is part of the problem imo. People try and minimise the larger cultural issues behind one while moving the emphasis on to violence in communities that are largely poc. It’s all terrible, but not all shootings are the same.

Only thats wrong. The suspect is a us citizen emigrated from China

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/16/us/orange-count...

Its wrong to try and label every bad thing as right-wing. Its divisive. It fuels a very dangerous fire

[ZedLeg]

How does that disprove what I posted?

He did live with a white supremacist in a house rented from another white supremacist.

It might be a coincidence but hate tends to find hate.