The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread
Discussion
JonChalk said:
Tom Logan said:
dvs_dave said:
Better. Fences. SMH 
That list, jesus.What a load of f
king gash.How much is Fox in hock to the NRA for?
Utter disbelief and such staggering evidence of our differences. Thank goodness the Atlantic ocean exists.
And yes, I appreciate not all are like this.
Last Visit said:
It's things like this, and indeed a lot of other news clips I have seen of some of the Republicans and other reports that make me feel like I'm watching a different species. Its been mentioned many times in this thread how different the American psyche is, how their societal values differ so much to ours and how engrained the desire for some to own firearms is. After so many of these shootings we see and hear so many people for who even the mention of gun control is an assult on their very existance. I feel like I am watching and reading about a different world, given the vast difference between my opinions on this and indeed what seems to be theirs.
Utter disbelief and such staggering evidence of our differences. Thank goodness the Atlantic ocean exists.
And yes, I appreciate not all are like this.
And yet, quite a number of British people seem to think that we are much more different to the people on the other side of the English Channel and North Sea than to those in the US, on the other side of the Atlantic, who happen to speak English for historical reasons.Utter disbelief and such staggering evidence of our differences. Thank goodness the Atlantic ocean exists.
And yes, I appreciate not all are like this.
Yes. Not at are like that. It is a very big place.
g4ry13 said:
Tom Logan said:
dvs_dave said:
Better. Fences. SMH
That list, jesus.What a load of f
king gash.When my parents and their friends drove Route 66, via Vegas, a couple of years ago, they rented an armoured personnel carrier. My mum was on the .50 cal at all times and all carried a sidearm, if not a machine pistol. They just about made it through. The bodies of Bad Guys littered the route.l behind them.
Oh no, I misremembered:
they rented a people carrier and carried no firearms. They didn't bemoan their lack of freedom or get involved in any firefights....
Oh no, I misremembered:
they rented a people carrier and carried no firearms. They didn't bemoan their lack of freedom or get involved in any firefights....
g4ry13 said:
I don't follow. Why do you draw the line at an AR15?
A hunting rifle is not for self-defense, it's for sport / hunting. Handguns can be used for self-defense or for carrying out targeted attacks.
By design, guns are intended to maim or kill.
I am not a gun expert but for me no issues to allow shotguns, sport rifles and revolvers. Anything else, including semi automatic is simply too much for any justification. Any assault type rifle seems to me too much outside a conflict scenario. A revolver has 6 shots and it takes time to reload unlike a magazine type handgun.A hunting rifle is not for self-defense, it's for sport / hunting. Handguns can be used for self-defense or for carrying out targeted attacks.
By design, guns are intended to maim or kill.
Guns are dangerous but ultimately do not kill people it’s the user. Agree with gun controls but not ban.
hidetheelephants said:
It's fine, but the GoP will consistently vote down increasing funding for mental health care provision, or indeed any health care provision, as it's goddamn communism.
....and people with mental health issues, but no firearms, tend not to massacre schoolchildren.
CrgT16 said:
g4ry13 said:
I don't follow. Why do you draw the line at an AR15?
A hunting rifle is not for self-defense, it's for sport / hunting. Handguns can be used for self-defense or for carrying out targeted attacks.
By design, guns are intended to maim or kill.
I am not a gun expert but for me no issues to allow shotguns, sport rifles and revolvers. Anything else, including semi automatic is simply too much for any justification. Any assault type rifle seems to me too much outside a conflict scenario. A revolver has 6 shots and it takes time to reload unlike a magazine type handgun.A hunting rifle is not for self-defense, it's for sport / hunting. Handguns can be used for self-defense or for carrying out targeted attacks.
By design, guns are intended to maim or kill.
Guns are dangerous but ultimately do not kill people it’s the user. Agree with gun controls but not ban.
In an ideal world, if you could click your fingers and remove all the guns from the country - would you not take that opportunity?
CrgT16 said:
I think owning guns it’s ok but there needs to be background checks and a good reason to own them. Also certain types of gun have no excuse to owned.
An AR15 type gun is not a self defence weapon by design. Shotguns, hunting rifles, small handheld guns/revolvers that’s more than enough.
Less guns the better but I don’t think banning them is necessary
I agree with not banning, but controls do need to be in place to ensure that the mentally unstable don't have access to guns. I largely agree with the restrictions in Australia and the UK, even think on occasion that they can be a little too restrictive (but would rather than than having them too lax).An AR15 type gun is not a self defence weapon by design. Shotguns, hunting rifles, small handheld guns/revolvers that’s more than enough.
Less guns the better but I don’t think banning them is necessary
As for a good self defence weapon, guns are not a good for self defence at all.
As a self defence practitioner, if you're ever likely to need a weapon for self defence you will have been caught unaware by a prepared attacker. If the attacker already has a weapon in play, that gun, no matter how well placed and meticulously prepared is already too far away. Even if that gun is on your hip. An attacker isn't going to wait for you to fumble with a weapon, he's got his life and freedom on the line. Better to make a corpse than be one.
If you've time to arm yourself, a judge will ask why did you not escape or in any other way attempt to mitigate the attack? Most weapons used in self defence are weapons of opportunity. Tools, kitchen utensils, so on and so forth.
Also, if you've got easy access to guns, so will your attacker and that just means that they no longer have to be close to be a threat, meaning you're infinitely more likely to be caught with your pants down. A person who breaks into your house is going to have the advantage in being alert and prepared, if you want to defend against an attack, train to defend yourself whilst unprepared.
As someone who's practised Krav for the last 5 years, your best defence is always to avoid the fight in the first place. If your attacker needs to get up close and personal, even with a weapon, that gives you more chance to spot them and the attacker less incentive to attack in the first place.
Having a readily available weapon is a crutch for fear, false reassurance. If you're living in a place that bad where you feel you can't live without that reassurance, however false it may be, then you need to admit the society you live in is horribly broken.
There's a lot of reference to the power of the NRA
But one article I read said they spent $5million in 2021 on campaigns
Surely that's peanuts when it comes to USA politics?
To have Republicans in their pocket must surely cost more than that?
Unless it isn't just about the NRA, and is more ingrained? Tbh gun laws are just another lense through which republicans make themselves look a bunch of cretins.
But one article I read said they spent $5million in 2021 on campaigns
Surely that's peanuts when it comes to USA politics?
To have Republicans in their pocket must surely cost more than that?
Unless it isn't just about the NRA, and is more ingrained? Tbh gun laws are just another lense through which republicans make themselves look a bunch of cretins.
captain_cynic said:
I agree with not banning, but controls do need to be in place to ensure that the mentally unstable don't have access to guns. I largely agree with the restrictions in Australia and the UK, even think on occasion that they can be a little too restrictive (but would rather than than having them too lax).
As for a good self defence weapon, guns are not a good for self defence at all.
As a self defence practitioner, if you're ever likely to need a weapon for self defence you will have been caught unaware by a prepared attacker. If the attacker already has a weapon in play, that gun, no matter how well placed and meticulously prepared is already too far away. Even if that gun is on your hip. An attacker isn't going to wait for you to fumble with a weapon, he's got his life and freedom on the line. Better to make a corpse than be one.
If you've time to arm yourself, a judge will ask why did you not escape or in any other way attempt to mitigate the attack? Most weapons used in self defence are weapons of opportunity. Tools, kitchen utensils, so on and so forth.
Also, if you've got easy access to guns, so will your attacker and that just means that they no longer have to be close to be a threat, meaning you're infinitely more likely to be caught with your pants down. A person who breaks into your house is going to have the advantage in being alert and prepared, if you want to defend against an attack, train to defend yourself whilst unprepared.
As someone who's practised Krav for the last 5 years, your best defence is always to avoid the fight in the first place. If your attacker needs to get up close and personal, even with a weapon, that gives you more chance to spot them and the attacker less incentive to attack in the first place.
Having a readily available weapon is a crutch for fear, false reassurance. If you're living in a place that bad where you feel you can't live without that reassurance, however false it may be, then you need to admit the society you live in is horribly broken.
Can’t fault your logic. As for a good self defence weapon, guns are not a good for self defence at all.
As a self defence practitioner, if you're ever likely to need a weapon for self defence you will have been caught unaware by a prepared attacker. If the attacker already has a weapon in play, that gun, no matter how well placed and meticulously prepared is already too far away. Even if that gun is on your hip. An attacker isn't going to wait for you to fumble with a weapon, he's got his life and freedom on the line. Better to make a corpse than be one.
If you've time to arm yourself, a judge will ask why did you not escape or in any other way attempt to mitigate the attack? Most weapons used in self defence are weapons of opportunity. Tools, kitchen utensils, so on and so forth.
Also, if you've got easy access to guns, so will your attacker and that just means that they no longer have to be close to be a threat, meaning you're infinitely more likely to be caught with your pants down. A person who breaks into your house is going to have the advantage in being alert and prepared, if you want to defend against an attack, train to defend yourself whilst unprepared.
As someone who's practised Krav for the last 5 years, your best defence is always to avoid the fight in the first place. If your attacker needs to get up close and personal, even with a weapon, that gives you more chance to spot them and the attacker less incentive to attack in the first place.
Having a readily available weapon is a crutch for fear, false reassurance. If you're living in a place that bad where you feel you can't live without that reassurance, however false it may be, then you need to admit the society you live in is horribly broken.
Ian Geary said:
There's a lot of reference to the power of the NRA
But one article I read said they spent $5million in 2021 on campaigns
Surely that's peanuts when it comes to USA politics?
To have Republicans in their pocket must surely cost more than that?
Unless it isn't just about the NRA, and is more ingrained? Tbh gun laws are just another lense through which republicans make themselves look a bunch of cretins.
Power isn't just in money. Especially political power. The NRA has enormous sway over it's members in encouraging them who to vote for. The "they're coming for your guns" trope is great for encouraging fear amongst the stupid and weak. But one article I read said they spent $5million in 2021 on campaigns
Surely that's peanuts when it comes to USA politics?
To have Republicans in their pocket must surely cost more than that?
Unless it isn't just about the NRA, and is more ingrained? Tbh gun laws are just another lense through which republicans make themselves look a bunch of cretins.
g4ry13 said:
So do you feel it's more a semi-automatic and high capacity magazine / fast reload times which are major issues that need to be controlled?
In an ideal world, if you could click your fingers and remove all the guns from the country - would you not take that opportunity?
Let’s leave it there. I think a total ban is not required, you think it is. We agree to disagree on this one. Can’t be bothered to argue ad infinity the details of what should be allowed and why. Not my job to do so. It’s only an Internet forum where I expressed my opinion.In an ideal world, if you could click your fingers and remove all the guns from the country - would you not take that opportunity?
CrgT16 said:
g4ry13 said:
So do you feel it's more a semi-automatic and high capacity magazine / fast reload times which are major issues that need to be controlled?
In an ideal world, if you could click your fingers and remove all the guns from the country - would you not take that opportunity?
Let’s leave it there. I think a total ban is not required, you think it is. We agree to disagree on this one. Can’t be bothered to argue ad infinity the details of what should be allowed and why. Not my job to do so. It’s only an Internet forum where I expressed my opinion.In an ideal world, if you could click your fingers and remove all the guns from the country - would you not take that opportunity?
It neither matters what you or I think as USA will continue to do what USA does until people can get over the concept of amending an amendment.
captain_cynic said:
Power isn't just in money. Especially political power. The NRA has enormous sway over it's members in encouraging them who to vote for. The "they're coming for your guns" trope is great for encouraging fear amongst the stupid and weak.
It has become one of the pillars of "the (regressive) right" in the culture wars. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff