The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread

[MC Bodge]

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:

So we need more guns then. Perhaps we could give guns to the guns in case the guns turn out to be the problem and not people.

H-BOMBS FOR ALL!

[HM-2]

NRS said:

No, he's not ignoring it. You're both arguing from two different stats and solutions - gotoPzero is just saying to fix gun deaths in the US it is much more effective to ban handguns.

Err, that's not what he's saying though:

gotoPzero said:

I get what you are saying. ARs *are* used in some mass shootings but statistically they are some of the least used - handguns account for 60-70% of all mass shooting fatalities. So focusing on just that one firearm is not going to help the situation.

Yes, it's true that handguns account for the majority of mass shooting fatalities, but they account for a far smaller proportion as a percentage of firearms in circulation. Centrefire rifles, or even semi-automatic rifles, in general aren't particularly overrepresented within mass shooting statistics, and yet AR-15 pattern rifles are by a huge amount.

That points to there being something specific with either the weapon, or more likely a particular type of person who has a propensity towards them.

Edited by HM-2 on Friday 27th May 13:42

[Byker28i]

The Rotrex Kid said:

NMNeil said:

And if you can't get a gun here in the US, just like the UK they turn to knives.
https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/multiple-s...

It's like clockwork.

Completely predictable that NMNeil will immediately bring knives to a gunfight, every time...

[Byker28i]

HM-2 said:

NRS said:

No, he's not ignoring it. You're both arguing from two different stats and solutions - gotoPzero is just saying to fix gun deaths in the US it is much more effective to ban handguns.

Err, that's not what he's saying though:

gotoPzero said:

I get what you are saying. ARs *are* used in some mass shootings but statistically they are some of the least used - handguns account for 60-70% of all mass shooting fatalities. So focusing on just that one firearm is not going to help the situation.

Yes, it's true that handguns account for the majority of mass shooting fatalities, but they account for a far smaller proportion as a percentage of firearms in circulation. Centrefire rifles, or even semi-automatic rifles, in general aren't particularly overrepresented within mass shooting statistics, and yet AR-15 pattern rifles are by a huge amount.

That points to there being something specific with either the weapon, or more likely a particular type of person who has a propensity towards them.

Edited by HM-2 on Friday 27th May 13:42

and yet, everytime we bring forward the same examples that places like the UK and Australia have done to cut out all school shootings, minimise deaths from firearms. A Ban on auto and semi auto weapons, restrictions on handguns, proper checks to be passed before you can have one, a full licencing system and registration of all weapons. Payment for weapons surrendered, restrict number of weapons and ammunition.

It's easy, other countries have done it.

The US could easily start with licencing and registration - know the size of the problem...

[MC Bodge]

Byker28i said:

Completely predictable that NMNeil will immediately bring knives to a gunfight, every time...

Semi automatic knives, with bump stocks?

[unident]

NMNeil said:

China has banned guns for many years, but it's made little difference to school mass attacks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_Ch...
The most disturbing was in 2019. "More than 50 people, almost all of them young children, were hospitalized in southwest China on Tuesday after a man broke into a kindergarten and sprayed them with a corrosive chemical as “revenge on society.”
And if you can't get a gun here in the US, just like the UK they turn to knives.
https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/multiple-s...
And every single member of PH is able to get one of these, so should they be banned?
https://www.dw.com/en/us-car-rams-into-wisconsin-c...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6953703/D...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/...
So don't blame the tool used or how easy the tool is to obtain, blame the person who used the tool or better still, find out why some people have gone mad and fix that.

You always use knives and whataboutism as your defence of guns. Here’s a couple of simple questions:

I’m standing 20 feet away from you. How many times can you stab me per second?

I’m still standing 20 feet away from you. How many times can you fatally cover me in acid per second?

50 children are standing 20 feet from you. Same two questions.

[MC Bodge]

unident said:

You always use knives and whataboutism as your defence of guns. Here’s a couple of simple questions:

I’m standing 20 feet away from you. How many times can you stab me per second?

I’m still standing 20 feet away from you. How many times can you fatally cover me in acid per second?

50 children are standing 20 feet from you. Same two questions.

20 foot machete, obviously.

Industrial sprayer on a trailer, obviously

[unident]

MC Bodge said:

20 foot machete, obviously.

Industrial sprayer on a trailer, obviously

[oddman]

Byker28i said:

and yet, everytime we bring forward the same examples that places like the UK and Australia have done to cut out all school shootings, minimise deaths from firearms. A Ban on auto and semi auto weapons, restrictions on handguns, proper checks to be passed before you can have one, a full licencing system and registration of all weapons. Payment for weapons surrendered, restrict number of weapons and ammunition.

It's easy, other countries have done it.

The US could easily start with licencing and registration - know the size of the problem...

The gun advocates and industry in the US aren't interested in even the most modest interventions. When they won't even countentance limits on magazine capacity you're leagues into the realm of the irrational. If the argument got near to rational territory, then progress might be made and that's what they don't want.

[Gweeds]

Note how MNeil says nothing about the kids and teachers killed.

Because he’s more interested in guns than lives.

[MC Bodge]

Gweeds said:

Note how MNeil says nothing about the kids and teachers killed.

Because he’s more interested in guns than lives.

They are probably just considered "kills/bodies" and "collateral damage"

[JQ]

unident said:

MC Bodge said:

20 foot machete, obviously.

Industrial sprayer on a trailer, obviously

We all have one of these in the garage surely

[BikeBikeBIke]

Why are school shootings such an American problem? There must be plenty of countries where guns are a free-for-for all and (unless the media are missing it) their nutters aren't doing this.

Theories?

[Last Visit]

It's beyond me why anyone would be a police officer in the US, such is the threat of firearms and the easy availability of them in all their various forms. Even with training, going into a building whether school or otherwise to deal with (ie kill) somone with murderous intent and in possession of firearms is no exact science when there is life to be saved. If you're going in to stop them killing, the chances of injury or being killed yourself are clearly high.
That person inside has time to baracade themselves in and good potential to pick you off as you enter. Action beats reaction and all that.

[Tankrizzo]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Why are school shootings such an American problem? There must be plenty of countries where guns are a free-for-for all and (unless the media are missing it) their nutters aren't doing this.

Theories?

I'm pretty sure although I haven't checked in a while, but the number of guns per head is by far the highest in the USA. Like, they're way, way out in front.

[Gweeds]

"Even Israel, a country that American gun enthusiasts point to as another heavily armed democracy, has much stricter gun-control laws than the United States does. To buy a gun there, you need a government license. The requirements for obtaining this license include satisfying a minimum-age limit (twenty-seven years old for anyone who hasn’t served in the military or national service), passing a gun-safety test, and obtaining a letter from a doctor that you are sound of mind and body. Many applicants in Israel are turned down, and even those whose applications get approved are, in most cases, limited to purchasing a single handgun with a limit of fifty bullets. Salvador Ramos, the shooter in Uvalde, Texas, legally purchased two AR-15 rifles and three hundred and seventy-five rounds of ammunition just days after his eighteenth birthday.

The evidence couldn’t be more plain. Other countries haven’t entirely eliminated mass shootings, but they have enacted reforms that helped turn them into rare, aberrational events rather than the everyday occurrences they are in this country. Is it any wonder that much of the rest of the world considers us mad? From afar, the evidence suggests that we are. Up close, however, the real problem isn’t mass insanity. It’s political capture and a system that, aided by the filibuster, entrenches the status quo and prevents desperately needed reforms. Until we tackle these systemic problems, nothing will change."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/how-...

But yeah, knives.

[BikeBikeBIke]

Tankrizzo said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

Why are school shootings such an American problem? There must be plenty of countries where guns are a free-for-for all and (unless the media are missing it) their nutters aren't doing this.

Theories?

I'm pretty sure although I haven't checked in a while, but the number of guns per head is by far the highest in the USA. Like, they're way, way out in front.

Good point. I think my assumption that countries with no gun laws with have a lot of guns is flawed. It's legal to have a Rolls Royce in almost all countries, that doesn't mean all countries have the same number of Rollers. ...and perhaps the USA is rare in that many of their nutters have a spare £1000 to buy a gun with.

[vaud]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Good point. I think my assumption that countries with no gun laws with have a lot of guns is flawed. It's legal to have a Rolls Royce in almost all countries, that doesn't mean all countries have the same number of Rollers. ...and perhaps the USA is rare in that many of their nutters have a spare 1000 to buy a gun with.

They don't cost that much. $400 and up.

[gotoPzero]

Gweeds said:

Note how MNeil says nothing about the kids and teachers killed.

Because he’s more interested in guns than lives.

Dude come on you don't even know the guy lets keep it to friendly banter?

[jimmyjimjim]

MKnight702 said:

To be frank, this obsession of the anti's with the AR-15 is ridiculous. Their only issue is how the gun looks, ooh it loooks a bit like an assault rifle we must all cower in our beds. The AR-15 is not a single gun, it is a style of gun, and it's made by numerous manufacturers. It is an extremely popular rifle because it can be customised to the owners heart's content. If the AR-15 didn't exist does anyone really think that the shooting atrocities wouldn't have happened?

They're also popular because they're cheap. You can buy an AR-15 for less than the cost of a decent air rifle in the UK. That's the reason they're over-represented. Ban AR-15s, and the nutjobs will use an AK. Or, once those are banned, a mini-14. Or an M1 carbine.

Paul Harrell has an excellent video on youtube on mass shootings and makes several points, including that the guns available now are no more lethal, nor come with higher capacity magazines than those of 70 years ago, but the number of mass shootings has increased regardless.