Plastic Rubbish
Discussion
Jonesy23 said:
Impressive how plastic waste, especially plastic waste in oceans has become a 'thing' recently.
Endless coverage in press, TV, politics and so on, and with no obvious reason for it to have suddenly become such an important and 'popular' issue. It's certainly not driven by general public concern.
Of course the 'solution' involves guilt, bans and new taxes!
A more cynical type than I would suggest that it has been decided by the great & worthy that this is a problem and pressure quietly applied to promoting it. So those meetings in Davos and elsewhere aren't just about the canapés.
Do you not think it's a problem then?Endless coverage in press, TV, politics and so on, and with no obvious reason for it to have suddenly become such an important and 'popular' issue. It's certainly not driven by general public concern.
Of course the 'solution' involves guilt, bans and new taxes!
A more cynical type than I would suggest that it has been decided by the great & worthy that this is a problem and pressure quietly applied to promoting it. So those meetings in Davos and elsewhere aren't just about the canapés.
Jonesy23 said:
Impressive how plastic waste, especially plastic waste in oceans has become a 'thing' recently.
Endless coverage in press, TV, politics and so on, and with no obvious reason for it to have suddenly become such an important and 'popular' issue. It's certainly not driven by general public concern.
Of course the 'solution' involves guilt, bans and new taxes!
There has long been a very high level of public concern, both in the UK and elsewhere but this hasn't previously found too much of a voice against other news stories so remained largely suppressed as a result.Endless coverage in press, TV, politics and so on, and with no obvious reason for it to have suddenly become such an important and 'popular' issue. It's certainly not driven by general public concern.
Of course the 'solution' involves guilt, bans and new taxes!
A couple of major reports published last summer and the Blue Planet programme (which was aired in several countries at much the same time, including the US) pushed the issue centre stage where it has remained as it coincided with an unusually lengthly 'slow-news' period.
The solutions you quote aren't entirely right. It requires a combination of things; new technology, new materials, charges and tariffs, a shift in public behaviour, principle to stimulate demand for change that the retailers and producers will then respond to. Legislation supports all these things.
StevieBee said:
menousername said:
My question is, if 100% of my recycling waste goes in the recycling collection, what percentage of it gets recycled, and if any finds its way into a river how and where is that happening?
If your council sends it to a UK processor then none of it.If it comprises part if a consignment destined for export and the container it's being transported in falls off the ship then all of it. And if it does make it to the destination, depending upon the quality controls in place there, either none of it or some of it.
DocJock said:
Our local council HWRC claims to recycle 99% of what is tipped there. As one of the skips is "general waste" and another is "bagged waste for incineration" I find that particular claim a bit hard to believe, even incineration counts as recycling.
Both general waste and certainly bagged waste for incineration will be pre-sorted before it goes to landfill or in the incinerator with any remaining recyclable materials recovered.Plus, the 99% figure will be based upon weight not volume.
Randy Winkman said:
And with regards other posters comments about using single use bags for waste; did they really produce as much waste as the stuff they bought? Once I've used the bog roll and kitchen roll, but the cereal packets and other paper n the recycling, recycled the bottles, tins and milk cartons, chucked the vegetable peelings on the compost etc, there's not much waste left.
I completely agree with this, about 4x the 'waste' goes into our blue recycling bin than into the black landfill bin.Bu there was a TV programme a while ago from the Northeast. Outside some houses were 5 or so blue bins in a row. When the council guy opened them, they were all completely empty! People couldn't be bothered to segregate their waste even at that basic level. In Warrington we (as a town) recycle 55% of waste. Education should readily get the national average up to that sort of level.
In my little bit of the US people take recycling quite seriously.
Apart from paper, cardboard and most plastics which are collected every two weeks, we can call and have them pick up appliances.
Electronics can be dropped off at a local facility.
We get an annual financial report, apparently it saves us multi millions per year. (just our township), even though the trucks they use cost the same as a Ferrari
It is mandotary to recycle but most do it eagerly as it is an alternative to higher property taxes.
Apart from paper, cardboard and most plastics which are collected every two weeks, we can call and have them pick up appliances.
Electronics can be dropped off at a local facility.
We get an annual financial report, apparently it saves us multi millions per year. (just our township), even though the trucks they use cost the same as a Ferrari
It is mandotary to recycle but most do it eagerly as it is an alternative to higher property taxes.
StevieBee said:
And it's going to get worse.
Until recently, China has been the destination for around half of the UK's recyclable plastic. This is because they have the highest demand for it but with limited ability to collect it domestically but this has been improved to the point where there are close to gathering sufficient within their own borders to satisfy need and is thus cheaper than importing it. As a result, they have placed restrictions on the quantity of imported recyclable plastics.
This affects us (and many other western countries) as we don't have sufficient domestic capacity to process the amount that would have otherwise been exported. And nor do we have domestic demand to the same levels. Europe does (on both counts) but one would assume they would prioritise their own needs rather than accommodate a non-EU country post Brexit.
Even more worrying is the issue of plastic nano particles. Scientific understanding of this is only just emerging and I would expect this to gain greater prominence over the coming months and years.
This is a topic that falls squarely in my field and something that I am getting increasingly involved with here and internationally. I was going to open an 'ask a recycling expert anything' thread but will attempt to answer anything here instead.
Good idea on the "ask a recycling expert". I work in this industry (as a broker/exporter, so am directly affected by these issues) & would happily contribute.Until recently, China has been the destination for around half of the UK's recyclable plastic. This is because they have the highest demand for it but with limited ability to collect it domestically but this has been improved to the point where there are close to gathering sufficient within their own borders to satisfy need and is thus cheaper than importing it. As a result, they have placed restrictions on the quantity of imported recyclable plastics.
This affects us (and many other western countries) as we don't have sufficient domestic capacity to process the amount that would have otherwise been exported. And nor do we have domestic demand to the same levels. Europe does (on both counts) but one would assume they would prioritise their own needs rather than accommodate a non-EU country post Brexit.
Even more worrying is the issue of plastic nano particles. Scientific understanding of this is only just emerging and I would expect this to gain greater prominence over the coming months and years.
This is a topic that falls squarely in my field and something that I am getting increasingly involved with here and internationally. I was going to open an 'ask a recycling expert anything' thread but will attempt to answer anything here instead.
There are other factors involved though StevieBee. Yes, as the Chinese economy matures & their Environment Agency gains influence & credibility, they are keen to build their own collections & reprocessing infrastructure, but it's a MASSIVE task to start from scratch in a nation that size. However, another reason that this is an issue right now & suddenly is across all our media, is that china recently decided to impose a complete import ban on most types of waste plastic & severely tighten import licences & quality controls on some other major waste imports- waste cardboard & paper. They don't want to be the world's "dumping ground" any more.
On the one hand, this shows how effective the Chinese government can be. A decision is taken (we don't want your waste plastic, cardboard & paper any more) & it gets implemented without consultation, lobbying, focus groups, referenda etc, but on the other hand the ramifications aren't considered & are felt, right round the world. There's a huge industry in the UK exporting, what we consider to be a product: "raw material for manufacturing industry". Suddenly it's now waste & banned, (or worse: no one really knows at ground level what is "waste" any more, nor who is going to make the decision, when it arrives in a port somewhere in China) or dramatically restricted, so where does it go? India, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, Eastern Europe, yes, but you are talking about millions of tonnes per year, from every single developed economy, needing to find a new home, almost overnight. Well January 1st actually.
On the ground, over here, the issues are enormous: recyclability is not the main driver in packaging design (but retailers are starting to work together on this); every UK council has different collections strategies (which means, the "product" I want to export from Leicester, is different to the "product" I want to ship from London); processing companies cannot change their technology at short notice (a modern MRF - Materials Recovery Facility is a high tech operation, costing up to £20mill & you can pretty much guarantee that any tweak, or upgrade will make things WORSE in the short term); we've run out of holes in the ground to fill & we don't have a packaging industry big enough to re-use our own waste, whether it be plastic, or paper. So we have to export it.
All that needs to be re-thought from top to bottom. Oh, and Michael Gove is in charge.
https://www.letsrecycle.com/news/latest-news/plast...
https://www.letsrecycle.com/news/latest-news/china...
letsrecycle.com is a good source of information on the waste industry.
Happy to answer any questions of course & sorry for the deluge of info. Chs, CF
Macro plastics are a problem that can be solved relatively easily. There's generations of work to do with that.
There should be a concerted effort on macro plastics removal from the environment, with benefits to be seen in the future through a related reduction in micro and below plastic particles.
Every piece of macro plastic waste constitutes thousands of particles of micro plastic.
Micro plastics and fibres are a much bigger issue in terms of clear up. They're the same scale as zooplankton and are undermining the ecosystem of every ocean and fresh water course.
Handy thing about the oceans though, is that everyone can turnaround and say it isn't their individual problem.
I actually think that this is the biggest problem created by mankind.
There should be a concerted effort on macro plastics removal from the environment, with benefits to be seen in the future through a related reduction in micro and below plastic particles.
Every piece of macro plastic waste constitutes thousands of particles of micro plastic.
Micro plastics and fibres are a much bigger issue in terms of clear up. They're the same scale as zooplankton and are undermining the ecosystem of every ocean and fresh water course.
Handy thing about the oceans though, is that everyone can turnaround and say it isn't their individual problem.
I actually think that this is the biggest problem created by mankind.
It would be nice to think that the primary processing could be moved closer to home so we were (legally) shipping raw material & precursors instead of just waste.
But as I suspect the drivers for doing everything in China etc. were labour costs, looser environmental standards and cheap bulk shipping in that direction (being the imbalanced return leg) there has never been much motivation to have processing at this end.
There's also arguments re. cost of separation (even with marked materials how much is actually checked vs bulk shredded eg cars & electricals) and environmental impact of reprocessing vs. making new (eg paper) but that's a whole other discussion!
But as I suspect the drivers for doing everything in China etc. were labour costs, looser environmental standards and cheap bulk shipping in that direction (being the imbalanced return leg) there has never been much motivation to have processing at this end.
There's also arguments re. cost of separation (even with marked materials how much is actually checked vs bulk shredded eg cars & electricals) and environmental impact of reprocessing vs. making new (eg paper) but that's a whole other discussion!
The point that I was endeavouring to make in my gentle fashion was:-
Instead of just moaning about it, how long would it take for each town in the UK that has a beach to have ten volunteers pick up the rubbish from their beach? Then each week a couple of worthy individuals could walk the length of the beach and pick up any fresh plastic that has arrived - it wouldn't take long because there wouldn't be very much fresh stuff. Because the rubbish is plastic it doesn't degrade or decompose, so we are looking at the same rubbish all the time!
Don't keep moaning about it and getting the BBC down to film it, put that effort into picking it up!
Instead of just moaning about it, how long would it take for each town in the UK that has a beach to have ten volunteers pick up the rubbish from their beach? Then each week a couple of worthy individuals could walk the length of the beach and pick up any fresh plastic that has arrived - it wouldn't take long because there wouldn't be very much fresh stuff. Because the rubbish is plastic it doesn't degrade or decompose, so we are looking at the same rubbish all the time!
Don't keep moaning about it and getting the BBC down to film it, put that effort into picking it up!
speedking31 said:
completely agree with this, about 4x the 'waste' goes into our blue recycling bin than into the black landfill bin.
Bu there was a TV programme a while ago from the Northeast. Outside some houses were 5 or so blue bins in a row. When the council guy opened them, they were all completely empty! People couldn't be bothered to segregate their waste even at that basic level. In Warrington we (as a town) recycle 55% of waste. Education should readily get the national average up to that sort of level.
We drop our recyclable waste off at the containers provided at the local supermarket, so you cant assume those houses weren't already recycling their waste. Bu there was a TV programme a while ago from the Northeast. Outside some houses were 5 or so blue bins in a row. When the council guy opened them, they were all completely empty! People couldn't be bothered to segregate their waste even at that basic level. In Warrington we (as a town) recycle 55% of waste. Education should readily get the national average up to that sort of level.
g7orge said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Am I missing something?
Surely the problem is people indiscriminately discarding it, not the plastic itself.
+1Surely the problem is people indiscriminately discarding it, not the plastic itself.
People staring at it and saying "Ooh! Look at that plastic rubbish there that someone has dropped!"
Instead of picking it up and putting it in a bin.
It's something that's worried me since I was a kid; how does all of this stuff end up on beaches, where's it come from, when will it ever (if ever?) degrade, and who's doing something about it? So I for one am pleased it's become a hot topic.
How were going to stop vessels out at sea from tipping, let alone accidentally losing loads overboard is beyond me, but at least flagging the issue is a start.
How were going to stop vessels out at sea from tipping, let alone accidentally losing loads overboard is beyond me, but at least flagging the issue is a start.
PRTVR said:
You are not alone, both me and the wife said exactly the same at the BBC piece , I wonder why the focus our beaches, when plastic can travel thousands of miles in the oceans, we can put very stringent controls on our plastic, but it will still wash up from other countries.
Seems the bigger problem is elsewhere, but I guess we will do our bit as a small island or two....http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-497...
Pleasantly surprised to see Tesco had managed to source mushrooms in cardboard containers last week!
We have a small bin and a double size recycling bin. Each is taken every two weeks. The recycling bin is full to brim by the second week & that's with my efforts to compact stuff.
At a local level, the amount of food packaging that's plastic is ridiculous, what is wrong with simple paper or box packaging? I reckon we only only need 20% of the packaging that we get & most of that can be paper based.
The really big problem is China, that was the source for a recycled plastics that was sold to them, now there will be a glut of the stuff & councils will have major issues getting rid of it. Though you cannot just rid it has to go somewhere. Much better if it did not happen in the first place.
At a local level, the amount of food packaging that's plastic is ridiculous, what is wrong with simple paper or box packaging? I reckon we only only need 20% of the packaging that we get & most of that can be paper based.
The really big problem is China, that was the source for a recycled plastics that was sold to them, now there will be a glut of the stuff & councils will have major issues getting rid of it. Though you cannot just rid it has to go somewhere. Much better if it did not happen in the first place.
You know, I see no reason at all why this cannot be a consumer lead revolution.
After all, if say Tesco were to offer for example chicken pieces in a plastic box that can be recycled as opposed
to a one time plastic container (and not recycleable). Extend this idea to other products with much less packaging
as a chice then they would have a competitive advantage over another retailer. Then others .. Sainburys et all
would have to switch or offer the choice.
If UK Gov. is serious, then it would give tax benefits to firms setting up recycle plants and force changes to packaging
to show recycling more clearly. It could also ban export of rubbish to countries that do not ethically dispose of this rubbish.
After all, if say Tesco were to offer for example chicken pieces in a plastic box that can be recycled as opposed
to a one time plastic container (and not recycleable). Extend this idea to other products with much less packaging
as a chice then they would have a competitive advantage over another retailer. Then others .. Sainburys et all
would have to switch or offer the choice.
If UK Gov. is serious, then it would give tax benefits to firms setting up recycle plants and force changes to packaging
to show recycling more clearly. It could also ban export of rubbish to countries that do not ethically dispose of this rubbish.
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