Thinking of buying a property in a Ski resort
Discussion
Hi,
Main “tax” is really the notaire’s fees. There’s not a strict answer on this, except to say that it slides down depending on youth of property. Average - due to relevant age of most chalets in region - on 7%.
The vendor in France is the one that takes the pain for the most part.
Is it an investment or a ‘home’. If an investment then think carefully about the resort compared to even other French resorts. Meribel, Tignes, Val D’Isere, Chamonix etc will all offer very different returns based on a lot of factors. Chamonix, even though (or because, depending on perspective) just it’s a great summer place too, tends to fall a little behind the full on ski resorts for growth potential. This is a topic in itself, but just a thought for you to have.
If going for an apartment, don’t forget that you’ll also run with service charges on top of utility bills. But if you’re for a place in a lovely resort then this shouldn’t be a big deal or priority concern.
Main “tax” is really the notaire’s fees. There’s not a strict answer on this, except to say that it slides down depending on youth of property. Average - due to relevant age of most chalets in region - on 7%.
The vendor in France is the one that takes the pain for the most part.
Is it an investment or a ‘home’. If an investment then think carefully about the resort compared to even other French resorts. Meribel, Tignes, Val D’Isere, Chamonix etc will all offer very different returns based on a lot of factors. Chamonix, even though (or because, depending on perspective) just it’s a great summer place too, tends to fall a little behind the full on ski resorts for growth potential. This is a topic in itself, but just a thought for you to have.
If going for an apartment, don’t forget that you’ll also run with service charges on top of utility bills. But if you’re for a place in a lovely resort then this shouldn’t be a big deal or priority concern.
Edited by tigerkoi on Monday 15th January 13:57
Hi,
Cheers for replying
It's going to be a home in the long term but in the short term we'll be renting it out but we'd go there for a couple of weeks in Summer and Winter (possibly the odd long weekend).
The good thing about Chamonix is we've gone over in the summer and winter, both times it was great. Other places we've only been during winter.
With that in mind we're not interested in a lease back property.
Looked at a few places online but they seem to be lease back for the most part. Whats the deal with Lease back? It seems like a lot of cash for a place you'll be able to use rarely.
Cheers,
Cheers for replying
It's going to be a home in the long term but in the short term we'll be renting it out but we'd go there for a couple of weeks in Summer and Winter (possibly the odd long weekend).The good thing about Chamonix is we've gone over in the summer and winter, both times it was great. Other places we've only been during winter.
With that in mind we're not interested in a lease back property.
Looked at a few places online but they seem to be lease back for the most part. Whats the deal with Lease back? It seems like a lot of cash for a place you'll be able to use rarely.
Cheers,
Hi there,
No worries - an interesting topic!
Since you mention getting out there for summer too, then I can understand Chamonix. The reason I mentioned the variance with other resorts is that I think the ski infrastructure (lifts, runs etc) is greater in some that others and that particularly plays with investment values. Val for instance draws a premium more than most etc.
But I understand what you’re looking for.
I’m not too up on the whole leaseback world, but seeing what a friend has gone through - if the situation suits - then you sort of own the property but hand it back to people who’ll run it as a rental for a set period of years of which you’ll derive a cut. You’ll get defined access for certain times, but you are locked in. And the times you’re likely to want to use it for skiing is likely to be the time when demand is high and when others will be looking to rent somewhere.
For me leaseback is great is someone with a bucketful of cash is looking to buy three or four chalets in one go and have a professional agency run them. And they’ll use one of them for their holiday once a year. And once again, something that only really works in a high yield location.
Interested to see how you get on!
No worries - an interesting topic!
Since you mention getting out there for summer too, then I can understand Chamonix. The reason I mentioned the variance with other resorts is that I think the ski infrastructure (lifts, runs etc) is greater in some that others and that particularly plays with investment values. Val for instance draws a premium more than most etc.
But I understand what you’re looking for.
I’m not too up on the whole leaseback world, but seeing what a friend has gone through - if the situation suits - then you sort of own the property but hand it back to people who’ll run it as a rental for a set period of years of which you’ll derive a cut. You’ll get defined access for certain times, but you are locked in. And the times you’re likely to want to use it for skiing is likely to be the time when demand is high and when others will be looking to rent somewhere.
For me leaseback is great is someone with a bucketful of cash is looking to buy three or four chalets in one go and have a professional agency run them. And they’ll use one of them for their holiday once a year. And once again, something that only really works in a high yield location.
Interested to see how you get on!
As someone who lives in a ski resort full-time if you're really going to consider it a home you will probably want to find a place where there is something to do all year round.
The closed seasons are very 'empty'. Here almost all the hotels close, many of the shops do. I like it - for us it becomes really friendly with just 'locals' knowing everyone else is a 'local' - but it wouldn't be everyone's choice. A friend lives in another famous Swiss resort and she has the same view.
We live in a biggish place - 5,000 permanent residents. Only about 30% of tourists come here in the winter to ski and there is a lot to do with festivals, sports events etc. It's fantastic being able to take advantage of all the facilities - at the moment I'm likely to be on the first lift up or out on the cross country 'luiper' before work - but if you're going to be based somewhere like this you do need to think about what it will be like when the lifts are closed.
On a similar theme my parents live in the Lake District (where my mother's family is from) and lots of people come there to retire. I suspect 50% of them leave within the first 3 years.
The closed seasons are very 'empty'. Here almost all the hotels close, many of the shops do. I like it - for us it becomes really friendly with just 'locals' knowing everyone else is a 'local' - but it wouldn't be everyone's choice. A friend lives in another famous Swiss resort and she has the same view.
We live in a biggish place - 5,000 permanent residents. Only about 30% of tourists come here in the winter to ski and there is a lot to do with festivals, sports events etc. It's fantastic being able to take advantage of all the facilities - at the moment I'm likely to be on the first lift up or out on the cross country 'luiper' before work - but if you're going to be based somewhere like this you do need to think about what it will be like when the lifts are closed.
On a similar theme my parents live in the Lake District (where my mother's family is from) and lots of people come there to retire. I suspect 50% of them leave within the first 3 years.
Sorry nothing to offer advise wise (other than dead jealous) ....
There was a fantastic thread on here re an Apartment in Chamonix and its purchase/renovation
Gruffy’s Ski Pad
Maybe Gruffy can offer some advise.
There was a fantastic thread on here re an Apartment in Chamonix and its purchase/renovation
Gruffy’s Ski Pad
Maybe Gruffy can offer some advise.
Good Morning!
Cheers for the replies! I had a look at Gruffy's thread (I reached page 6, will look at the rest today), not what we're looking for, just haven't got the time to do a project property.
I guess in a perfect world we would be able to get a place within the budget we have but I think it will be a stretch to get a 2 bedroom apartment (mandatory) in a resort that would be busy enough in both Summer and Winter to generate some income.
Here's something we liked the look of but it's a bit out of reach budget wise and we've never heard of that location (but I imagine there's hundreds of resorts I've never heard of)
https://propertysaleaustria.co.uk/wp-content/uploa...
Suite 102 floor plan
Also if I'm honest I'd rather get a place in France a) If we wanted we, could hop in the car a go out there (but you could say that about Austria too) we did Chamonix in 8.5 hours from Calais. And b) not too painful a transfer from Geneva Airport 1.5 hours
@Chandrew
What resort? Just curious as when I went to Chamonix in early September 2015 it looked mostly open.
Cheers for the replies! I had a look at Gruffy's thread (I reached page 6, will look at the rest today), not what we're looking for, just haven't got the time to do a project property.
I guess in a perfect world we would be able to get a place within the budget we have but I think it will be a stretch to get a 2 bedroom apartment (mandatory) in a resort that would be busy enough in both Summer and Winter to generate some income.
Here's something we liked the look of but it's a bit out of reach budget wise and we've never heard of that location (but I imagine there's hundreds of resorts I've never heard of)
https://propertysaleaustria.co.uk/wp-content/uploa...
Suite 102 floor plan
Also if I'm honest I'd rather get a place in France a) If we wanted we, could hop in the car a go out there (but you could say that about Austria too) we did Chamonix in 8.5 hours from Calais. And b) not too painful a transfer from Geneva Airport 1.5 hours
@Chandrew
What resort? Just curious as when I went to Chamonix in early September 2015 it looked mostly open.
T1berious said:
@Chandrew
What resort? Just curious as when I went to Chamonix in early September 2015 it looked mostly open.
We're in St. Moritz. It started closing mid September and most had closed mid October. It started opening again mid December which was 1 week after the slopes opened on a daily basis. We get the same in the spring. I think we're more 'town-like' than most resorts. My children get 3 weeks 'half-term' in May as it's when many of the locals have the easiest option of going away given everything here is closed.What resort? Just curious as when I went to Chamonix in early September 2015 it looked mostly open.
I think you'll find most places are like this. The hotels and shops use the time to repaint / refurbish. We have about 40 hotels in town and only 3 stay open all year round.
CrutyRammers said:
Phil Dicky said:
Morzine is very good in the summer, a few pals have mountain biked there, I understand the lifts are adapted for summer use, though not sure what that exactly means
It means they stick a bike hook on them ??I think the number of visitors is perhaps larger than in the winter months. The whole village just turns itself from snow activites to sunshine
it's ace.
swim in the lakes, 30+ celcius in July and Aug. Weekly BBQs at the pubs, Day trips to the Swiss stuff. etc etc
My parents bought (me and my brothers - (IHT planning) ) a property out here about 20 yrs ago
Wherever you decide to live, make sure you spend lots of time there before you take the plunge. Get to know local people and find out what their lives are like. We are in a small village in Switzerland (Wengen). We have around 1200 permanent residents, and that includes outlying farms etc. Out of season it's very quiet with only 1 hotel open all year round.
We'd been coming here for about 25 years so it was a pretty easy decision for us - lots to do in summer and winter. Our off-seasons are mid October to mid December and mid April to mid June. That's 4 months a year when there’s not much to do.
Having said all that, the mountains are a lovely place to live - choose the right town/village and you'll love it.
We'd been coming here for about 25 years so it was a pretty easy decision for us - lots to do in summer and winter. Our off-seasons are mid October to mid December and mid April to mid June. That's 4 months a year when there’s not much to do.
Having said all that, the mountains are a lovely place to live - choose the right town/village and you'll love it.
Cheers for the responses chaps,
So in summary...
Visit a place before buying. This is why I like the idea of Chamonix, been a couple of times and it seemed quite lively both Winter and Summer so good rental potential when we're not there, which will be 95% of the time
4 months a year dead zone. Yeah I figured there would be periods in the year that a resort is just too quiet to generate income. Good to know
taxe d’habitation & taxe foncière. Been looking into this and it varies from region to region for taxe fonciere but I read Chamonix was around 7%
Was initially thinking of getting something similar to the Kristall Spaces but for a resort I know (or have heard of) it's around 150k over what we would want to spend.
Still it's very early days as we won't be selling till October
So in summary...
Visit a place before buying. This is why I like the idea of Chamonix, been a couple of times and it seemed quite lively both Winter and Summer so good rental potential when we're not there, which will be 95% of the time
4 months a year dead zone. Yeah I figured there would be periods in the year that a resort is just too quiet to generate income. Good to know
taxe d’habitation & taxe foncière. Been looking into this and it varies from region to region for taxe fonciere but I read Chamonix was around 7%
Was initially thinking of getting something similar to the Kristall Spaces but for a resort I know (or have heard of) it's around 150k over what we would want to spend.
Still it's very early days as we won't be selling till October
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