Macron and Calais
Discussion
jsf said:
I would expect the new road charging policy for trucks will include a payment that is used to cover any costs of the border infrastructure.
Isn't that already part of the HGV Levy?https://www.gov.uk/hgv-levy
TooMany2cvs said:
Isn't that already part of the HGV Levy?
https://www.gov.uk/hgv-levy
There is a consultation process ongoing at the moment to add a pay per mile charge on top of this levy.https://www.gov.uk/hgv-levy
TooMany2cvs said:
Atomic12C said:
The ongoing problem is at the EU's external borders.
...when the EU continues have an open border stance.
You're confusing Schengen and EU....when the EU continues have an open border stance.
Don't think I am.
My point is about the existing problem of migrants entering the EU through leaky unsecured borders.
Primarily Greece, Italy, Spain.
The EU as the entity it is, is not doing much to close those doors.
Once inside the EU, the schengen area allows them passport free border crossings.
Shengen isn't the problem, the EU borders are.
Atomic12C said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Atomic12C said:
The ongoing problem is at the EU's external borders.
...when the EU continues have an open border stance.
You're confusing Schengen and EU....when the EU continues have an open border stance.
Don't think I am.
My point is about the existing problem of migrants entering the EU through leaky unsecured borders.
Primarily Greece, Italy, Spain.
The EU as the entity it is, is not doing much to close those doors.
Once inside the EU, the schengen area allows them passport free border crossings.
Shengen isn't the problem, the EU borders are.
The UK's physical borders are 100% the UK's responsibility, always have been.
The physical borders between F/D/I/S - or lack of - are Schengen.
not quite borders are two parties responsibility, here it is the UK and the EU, in this case France, who are happy to make the UK pay because they don't care who leave France to be here, ignoring the international agreements about asylum and immigration.
It as most of the EU is all about money and who pays.
It as most of the EU is all about money and who pays.
TooMany2cvs said:
Atomic12C said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Atomic12C said:
The ongoing problem is at the EU's external borders.
...when the EU continues have an open border stance.
You're confusing Schengen and EU....when the EU continues have an open border stance.
Don't think I am.
My point is about the existing problem of migrants entering the EU through leaky unsecured borders.
Primarily Greece, Italy, Spain.
The EU as the entity it is, is not doing much to close those doors.
Once inside the EU, the schengen area allows them passport free border crossings.
Shengen isn't the problem, the EU borders are.
The UK's physical borders are 100% the UK's responsibility, always have been.
The physical borders between F/D/I/S - or lack of - are Schengen.
The EU has done very little to support EU countries such as Greece,Italy and Spain in terms of securing their sea borders apart from throwing money at Turkey, and then only when threatened by Erdogan, this has now pushed the main point of exit for migrants to Libya who find their way to Italy and Greece.
Once the migrants reach any of the countries mentioned Schengen (EU Law) gives the migrants free reign to find their way to anywhere in Europe.
don'tbesilly said:
The EU adopted the Schengen Agreement in 1999 with the Amsterdam Treaty, so to suggest the responsibility for EU countries borders has nothing to do with the EU is not the case.
You do know that not all EU countries are Schengen, right? Six aren't members, while four non-EU countries are.The UK is, of course, one of the EU members which isn't Schengen - and the UK has a permanent opt-out...
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Thursday 18th January 18:35
TooMany2cvs said:
don'tbesilly said:
The EU adopted the Schengen Agreement in 1999 with the Amsterdam Treaty, so to suggest the responsibility for EU countries borders has nothing to do with the EU is not the case.
You do know that not all EU countries are Schengen, right? Six aren't members, while four non-EU countries are.What point were you trying to make?
Funkycoldribena said:
dazwalsh said:
It's worth the money to keep that s
tstorm over there to be honest. Money well spent.
We would have charities rushing to help these poor people which would only attract more, escalating the problem ten fold. The French burn down their camps instead. A far cheaper option for us to just pay them to do it their way.
That probably makes me sound heartless, and I would genuinely help those who were fleeing war torn holes, but I find it very hard to belive that those sitting in calais are still fleeing from danger, otherwise they wouldn't have travelled through 7 or 8 different countries. These people just want to get into our lovely soft warm duvet of a country, and whilst I don't blame them, it's not our problem.
The French have offered them accommodation.tstorm over there to be honest. Money well spent.We would have charities rushing to help these poor people which would only attract more, escalating the problem ten fold. The French burn down their camps instead. A far cheaper option for us to just pay them to do it their way.
That probably makes me sound heartless, and I would genuinely help those who were fleeing war torn holes, but I find it very hard to belive that those sitting in calais are still fleeing from danger, otherwise they wouldn't have travelled through 7 or 8 different countries. These people just want to get into our lovely soft warm duvet of a country, and whilst I don't blame them, it's not our problem.
dazwalsh said:
And they turn it down to live under tarpaulin in a forest? Mind boggles. Is it really that much more attractive here than in the likes of France or Germany?
They know they don't meet the requirements for refugee status because they are economic migrants, so don't want to risk being deported. To them, living in a shanty in Europe is a better option than being sent home.These people cant take a job in most of Europe, they think its easier to work illegally in the UK, partly because UK don't use an ID card system.
jsf said:
They know they don't meet the requirements for refugee status because they are economic migrants, so don't want to risk being deported. To them, living in a shanty in Europe is a better option than being sent home.
These people cant take a job in most of Europe, they think its easier to work illegally in the UK, partly because UK don't use an ID card system.
...but mostly because they speak English.These people cant take a job in most of Europe, they think its easier to work illegally in the UK, partly because UK don't use an ID card system.
jsf said:
dazwalsh said:
And they turn it down to live under tarpaulin in a forest? Mind boggles. Is it really that much more attractive here than in the likes of France or Germany?
They know they don't meet the requirements for refugee status because they are economic migrants, so don't want to risk being deported. To them, living in a shanty in Europe is a better option than being sent home.These people cant take a job in most of Europe, they think its easier to work illegally in the UK, partly because UK don't use an ID card system.
IroningMan said:
jsf said:
They know they don't meet the requirements for refugee status because they are economic migrants, so don't want to risk being deported. To them, living in a shanty in Europe is a better option than being sent home.
These people cant take a job in most of Europe, they think its easier to work illegally in the UK, partly because UK don't use an ID card system.
...but mostly because they speak English.These people cant take a job in most of Europe, they think its easier to work illegally in the UK, partly because UK don't use an ID card system.
jsf said:
IroningMan said:
...but mostly because they speak English.
French is spoken by large proportions of sub Saharan Africans, which is the group entering via Libya.IroningMan said:
jsf said:
IroningMan said:
...but mostly because they speak English.
French is spoken by large proportions of sub Saharan Africans, which is the group entering via Libya.jsf said:
IroningMan said:
jsf said:
IroningMan said:
...but mostly because they speak English.
French is spoken by large proportions of sub Saharan Africans, which is the group entering via Libya.IroningMan said:
You said a lack of ID cards was part of the reason that so many want to come to the UK - if you didn't mean to imply that we should therefore have ID cards in the UK then all well and good.
The art of discussion is dying, read what people write and discuss that, don't assume what that means and then assert that as what they said.And no, i do not want ID cards in the UK.
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