45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 4)
Discussion
minimoog said:
I had’nt seen this from last year before. It’s a long but very interesting essay on how 4chan came about and it posits interesting theories on why Trump has a lot of support amongst its users. I commend it to you if you’ve some time to kill.
https://medium.com/@DaleBeran/4chan-the-skeleton-k...
Excellent article.https://medium.com/@DaleBeran/4chan-the-skeleton-k...
Its focus is on 4chan but the phenomenon is a lot wider than that. We can see in this thread a number of posters who on the surface appear to support Trump but are unable to say much good about him, however the same people will harp on endlessly about winding up lefties or will get in to a pointless argument for the fun of it. It's possible they are all 4channers but unlikely. What's more probable is that 4chan is a symptom of a wider cultural shift towards political nihilism.
This makes sense if we look at the historical context of the internet being roughly analogous to the invention of the printing press. When the gutenberg press was invented people were still banging on about the divine right of kings being the correct way to rule, in the same way as people nowadays bang on about parliamentary democracy being the correct way to rule. I would lay good money on there being a similar shift towards political nihilism during the period where literacy was spreading, after all there must have been a few interesting conversations between tenants and lairds along the lines of "So which part of the new testament says you should be taxing half my crops?"
If we look at today's trumpistas it follows a very similar pattern. Lacking the education to suggest an alternative to the status quo their arguments often boil down to "I've read the internet and don't see which bit of it says you should be taxing a portion of my crop".
IMO the move towards political nihilism isn't something to be feared or worried about but should instead be welcomed as the teething pains of a new section of society finding their political voice.
Last time we changed the system to give the dispossessed a voice we took many years and had to go through the French revolution and English civil war. This time we've had smart phones since 2000ish and smartphones have proliferated a damn sight faster than literacy did in the 15th to 18th centuries.
If we look at the main game as being 'how do we deal with the internet as a repetition of of the gutenberg press' then for whatever Trump's myriad faults may be I will say that I give not one kek for collusion or lies: He is not a warmonger and at this stage that is all that matters.
Countdown said:
I'm not sure how ANY of that is "in defence of Trump".
Firstly I get the impression that his policy decisions are made based on
(a) His insecurity and deep need for public approval
(b) His desire to show the US how bad Obama was
(c) what the last person he spoke to suggested he do
There is no rational, logical, consistent approach. There are no underlying principles, aims, or objectives. I gave an example earlier if a blindfolded drunk swinging at a pinyata. Yes, occasionally he hits it, but it's only through sheer luck and the collateral damage outweighs any benefit.
Your point about AQ/HTS/Al Nusra his extremely apt. That's why Obama had the brains to stay out.
Trump threatens to pull out of Syria. "Assad" does the one thing that's guaranteed to humiliate Trump if he dares to pull out, so Trump has to be seen to do something. Trump (and the US, French, and ourselves) have been led by the nose to take the side of the Syrian rebels. It's the very definition of being pulled into a quagmire.
Catching up the thread so sorry it's from a few a days ago. (I used to think the euro thread moved fast but hey ho)Firstly I get the impression that his policy decisions are made based on
(a) His insecurity and deep need for public approval
(b) His desire to show the US how bad Obama was
(c) what the last person he spoke to suggested he do
There is no rational, logical, consistent approach. There are no underlying principles, aims, or objectives. I gave an example earlier if a blindfolded drunk swinging at a pinyata. Yes, occasionally he hits it, but it's only through sheer luck and the collateral damage outweighs any benefit.
Your point about AQ/HTS/Al Nusra his extremely apt. That's why Obama had the brains to stay out.
Trump threatens to pull out of Syria. "Assad" does the one thing that's guaranteed to humiliate Trump if he dares to pull out, so Trump has to be seen to do something. Trump (and the US, French, and ourselves) have been led by the nose to take the side of the Syrian rebels. It's the very definition of being pulled into a quagmire.
The bolded bit is where I question you. I think Trump has been highly consistent on a number of issues, one of which is that American tax payers should not be paying for the world police. Yes he is surrounded by bluster and lies but look at the world we are in, have we really been reduced to the point where we distrust a leader because their competence in demagoguery is not sufficient to leave the wool comfortably across our eyes?
You say that "Your point about AQ/HTS/Al Nusra his extremely apt" and then want what? More of the same?
Trump isn't an endgame but a stepping stone.
For me I don't give a screw about the western world's fanaticism for titillation, my heroes are for the like of Ibn al-Haytham, Newton and Einstein. The world at its most productive will involve building a road from Timbuktu to Damascus as strong as the link from London to New York. (The writings in Djenne are equivalent to the modern day Guardian news paper).
Trump isn't clever enough to understand China's OBOR but I do know one thing. Western foreign policy is a long way behind the curve.
Byker28i said:
What tartan pixie got wrong was the funding for jihadis. The $200m that trump pulled out of was funding the infrastructure that Assad pulled in an attempt to further weaken the rebel areas. This funding paid for infrastructure engineers, power, sewage etc, paid for the teachers, the dustbin men, basically paid the local council type workers.
No you've got that wrong. Trump has denied a number of foreign expenses, some of which has rebuilding expenses, are you thinking of the recent refusal towards SDF? What I was referring to was the TOW program which was going to Zenki among other unpleasant factions. TOW's are anti tank missiles that make a mark on the battlefield because if you've got an armoured car that's impervious to small arms fire then you can put a team in to any position you damn well please, TOW's give you area denial. Also, tanks in themselves are usually infantry support weapons, the idea of big tank battles is mostly a Hollywood myth with the exception of rare occurrences like Kursk or El AlAmain. In the context of Syria a single TOW can make a big difference.
Afaik Trump came in to office and put a stop to most of the CIA black programs in Syria on the basis of "I'm a simple man who doesn't understand why we're giving weapons to jihadis." As a complexish man I'd be inclined to agree with him.
I'll update with links in the future and refine my position if needed but the above is my understanding.
Viva Votel. The truly great generals are the ones we never hear of because the war never happened.
Cohen is going to take the fifth with anything to do with the porn star.
“Based on the advice of counsel, I will assert my 5th amendment rights in connection with all proceeding in this case due to the ongoing criminal investigation by the FBI and U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York”
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/384915-...
And here Trump saying innocent people don’t take the fifth
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/9892753698...
“Based on the advice of counsel, I will assert my 5th amendment rights in connection with all proceeding in this case due to the ongoing criminal investigation by the FBI and U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York”
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/384915-...
And here Trump saying innocent people don’t take the fifth
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/9892753698...
Byker28i said:
Trump seeks to review seized Michael Cohen files, offers to make himself personally available for any review or screening of evidence seized by FBI of his lawyer
They are desperate to hide something
Attorneys for Trump told the federal judge overseeing the investigation of Michael Cohen that Trump would, as necessary, *personally review documents* to ensure that privileged information is not revealed accidentally to the FBI or prosecutors.They are desperate to hide something
And he doesn't see this as obstruction into the investigations into him and team trump? - He doesn't think this through at all, his lawyers must be pulling their hair out. Please let him agree to an interview with Mueller.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trump-per...
trumps going to love this fox poll - Fifty-six of respondents in the poll said they believed Mueller’s probe will find that Trump committed the offenses. And 67 percent say they believe it’s at least somewhat important that Mueller’s investigation continues.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/384925-...
Mr Tracy said:
Tartan Pixie said:
No you've got that wrong. Trump has denied a number of foreign expenses, some of which has rebuilding expenses, are you thinking of the recent refusal towards SDF? .
Nope - he stopped the Syrian stabilization funding, which wasn't just building, but also paid the wages of essential workers in the areas that the Assad regime had ceasedsugerbear said:
RobDickinson said:
We all know Cohen was just the COVFEFE boy, Trump barely knew him, only met him a handful of times, Cohen who?
EFA..Byker28i said:
sugerbear said:
RobDickinson said:
We all know Cohen was just the COVFEFE boy, Trump barely knew him, only met him a handful of times, Cohen who?
EFA..
frankenstein12 said:
Nanook said:
Zod said:
There is a much longer context here that you are ignoring. I don't give a toss about being big or clever. I do give a toss about someone spouting rubbish and using "I know this because I work for the Government" to back up his rubbish.
You do give a toss about someone spouting rubbish, so you retort by telling him he's a nobody, trying to belittle and insult him?Your point may be valid. I was just commenting that it's a s
t way of trying to get it across. Just an observation. I'll leave it there.p1stonhead said:
Cohen is going to take the fifth with anything to do with the porn star.
“Based on the advice of counsel, I will assert my 5th amendment rights in connection with all proceeding in this case due to the ongoing criminal investigation by the FBI and U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York”
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/384915-...
And here Trump saying innocent people don’t take the fifth
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/9892753698...
As they say, there is a Trump tweet for every situation. “Based on the advice of counsel, I will assert my 5th amendment rights in connection with all proceeding in this case due to the ongoing criminal investigation by the FBI and U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York”
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/384915-...
And here Trump saying innocent people don’t take the fifth
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/9892753698...
esxste said:
TheFlyingBanana said:
I'm just looking forward to the TV series when all this is over, it will make The West Wing look pedestrian.
I want to suggest the name "TrumpHouse"
In the mean time, you could watch House of Cards?I want to suggest the name "TrumpHouse"
They ran All The President's Men on one of the movie channels the other night. I had never seen the film so decided to give it a go.
I couldn't help thinking that those journalists really had to do some proper detective work in those days. Today it seems all they have to do is shake the tree.
I couldn't help thinking that those journalists really had to do some proper detective work in those days. Today it seems all they have to do is shake the tree.
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