45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 4)

[frankenstein12]

Byker28i said:

I didn't say there was conclusive proof (yet), I said that Manafort was being investigated for collusion and provided the link

Fair enough.

[Byker28i]

Davos123 said:

Louise Mensch's blog is not a source.

edit: If Coyft posted a link to infowars saying something like "only one source so far so take with a pinch of salt but one to watch" he'd rightly be dismissed as an idiot. Posting a link to Patribotics is exactly the same.

Interesting.
Everything can be a source, it's how you weight that source based on validity, truth, confidence, bias etc. Alex Jones can be a source, was a source of how the far right were thinking during the marches at Charlottesville for example.

Whilst Mensch has many contacts within the us intelligence agencies, I weight it quite lowly, hence the comment about it being a single source but perhaps the story of the FBI investigating being something to keep an eye on.
Other sources such as main stream media, especially those known for investigative journalism will of course rate highly.

Hannity I could understand being investigated, regular communications with trump, links to Cohen etc. I'd expect those to be investigated, remembering they've gathered a lot of information for Cohen. The Fox News link seems a little tenuous.

But, as I keep saying, I provide the sources, not just opinions like some, so we can discuss.

[frankenstein12]

_dobbo_ said:

Once again you assume the lack of any public revelations means a lack of anything being found. Maybe wait until Mueller is finished.

Also you are massively misinterpreting what the scope of Muellers probe is, go read the document describing the scope of the investigation, then come back.

Edit to add - even if Mueller was exceeding his authority (he's not), so what? He's finding evidence of criminality everywhere he looks. Should all these criminals be allowed to get away with it?



Edit again, I'll even do it for you.

1.) The scope of the investigation does not include the term collusion at all. That's Trump's invention.
2.) It DOES include possible links or coordination between Trump’s campaign and the Russian government
3.) It does include obstruction of justice

and finally, the kicker:

4.) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation

So, in your opinion based on this, is Mueller exceeding his authority?

Edited by _dobbo_ on Saturday 16th June 14:01

Based on what you have written it doesn't appear so. I haven't fully looked into it myself i am merely going by the fact a judge told him he was over reaching and trying to find evidence of any crimes by personally prosecuting people to try get them to turn up evidence of any possible crime committed by Trump or his campaign rather than keeping to his mandate and handing over to the relevant authorities to prosecute.

I have not yet actually read the mandate itself.

[rscott]

frankenstein12 said:

Byker28i said:

Almost 1600 children separated from their parents in the last 6 weeks

God tweeted
THOU SHALT NOT TAKE CHILDREN FROM THEIR PARENTS AND PUT THEM IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS HOLY st WHY THE fk DO I HAVE TO SAY THESE THINGS
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheGoodGodAbove/status/...
??

As a tactic it'll certainly work in discouraging people, but that doesn't make it right, no matter how many times they claim the bible says they can.

As i posted previously what would you have them do.

Lock the kids up with their parents?
Let the kids roam the streets freely?
Place the kids in individual care homes?
Don't lock up the parents and just let them go free with their kids?

Lock them up with their parents, process quickly and either grant leave to remain or deport?

[Davos123]

Byker28i said:

But, as I keep saying, I provide the sources, not just opinions like some, so we can discuss.

I'm not going to get caught up in semantics here - in the context you used it, it's not a source worthy of sharing. Louise Mensch is a thoroughly discredited conspiracy theorist and habitual liar and we shouldn't be lending anything she writes a shred of legitimacy. What you did is no different to this:

Only one source at the moment so take it with a pinch of salt but looks like the FBI may have actively favoured Clinton and been desperate to get her elected. One to keep an eye on.

https://www.infowars.com/fbi-agents-called-hillary...

[Countdown]

Byker28i said:

Almost 1600 children separated from their parents in the last 6 weeks

God tweeted
THOU SHALT NOT TAKE CHILDREN FROM THEIR PARENTS AND PUT THEM IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS HOLY st WHY THE fk DO I HAVE TO SAY THESE THINGS
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheGoodGodAbove/status/...
??

As a tactic it'll certainly work in discouraging people, but that doesn't make it right, no matter how many times they claim the bible says they can.

Like it or not this is a massive vote winner for Trump. I doubt if there is a single politician, anywhere in the world, who has lost more votes than they gained by being tough on immigration, and especially illegal immigration.

[frankenstein12]

rscott said:

Lock them up with their parents, process quickly and either grant leave to remain or deport?

Not so easy i should have thought.

For a start there is a huge backlog and a "huge" number still pouring over on top of the backlog.

Other issue is that holding the kids with their parents would be a logistical nightmare as the kids need education and outings etc so they can have relatively "normal" lives whereas if locked up with their parents that would not be so easy.

Edited by frankenstein12 on Saturday 16th June 15:57

[IJB1959]

Trump voters??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MwN5nDajWs

[Tony33]

For those who use FB:

https://www.facebook.com/NBCNews/videos/2612824168...

Referring to Kim Jong-Un "He speaks and his people sit up in attention. I want my people to do the same"

[_dobbo_]

frankenstein12 said:

Based on what you have written it doesn't appear so. I haven't fully looked into it myself i am merely going by the fact a judge told him he was over reaching and trying to find evidence of any crimes by personally prosecuting people to try get them to turn up evidence of any possible crime committed by Trump or his campaign rather than keeping to his mandate and handing over to the relevant authorities to prosecute.

I have not yet actually read the mandate itself.

Knock yourself out, it's a single page of paper:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7...

[anonymous-user]

_dobbo_ said:

Knock yourself out, it's a single page of paper:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7...

Not really that difficult for people is it?
It's almost as if they don't want to know the truth.

[Byker28i]

frankenstein12 said:

rscott said:

Lock them up with their parents, process quickly and either grant leave to remain or deport?

Not so easy i should have thought.

For a start there is a huge backlog and a "huge" number still pouring over on top of the backlog.

Other issue is that holding the kids with their parents would be a logistical nightmare as the kids need education and outings etc so they can have relatively "normal" lives whereas if locked up with their parents that would not be so easy.

Edited by frankenstein12 on Saturday 16th June 15:57

There's not a huge number, just that numbers are increasing again back to normal levels.
As a tactic, however distasteful, for a person without morals or in sessions case claims biblical rights, you can see the warped logic in it. Make it really unattractive to try to enter the US, but it is really distasteful, when some are claiming asylum. A lot of the parents are only charged with misdemeanours but still don't know where their children ar.

[Byker28i]

Davos123 said:

Byker28i said:

But, as I keep saying, I provide the sources, not just opinions like some, so we can discuss.

I'm not going to get caught up in semantics here - in the context you used it, it's not a source worthy of sharing. Louise Mensch is a thoroughly discredited conspiracy theorist and habitual liar and we shouldn't be lending anything she writes a shred of legitimacy. What you did is no different to this:

Only one source at the moment so take it with a pinch of salt but looks like the FBI may have actively favoured Clinton and been desperate to get her elected. One to keep an eye on.

https://www.infowars.com/fbi-agents-called-hillary...

As I said, everything's a source, but you have to weight them. In Alex jones case, it would be with several helium balloons , his testimony is so lightweight . IMHO of course

[Davos123]

Byker28i said:

As I said, everything's a source, but you have to weight them. In Alex jones case, it would be with several helium balloons , his testimony is so lightweight . IMHO of course

Yeah, because he's a conspiracy theorist nutjob. Like Mensch.

[Byker28i]

frankenstein12 said:

Based on what you have written it doesn't appear so. I haven't fully looked into it myself i am merely going by the fact a judge told him he was over reaching and trying to find evidence of any crimes by personally prosecuting people to try get them to turn up evidence of any possible crime committed by Trump or his campaign rather than keeping to his mandate and handing over to the relevant authorities to prosecute.

I have not yet actually read the mandate itself.

This is true and is was a Virginia judge questioning if Muelr had overreached following Manafort claiming this, at least according to a Fox News report.
It's also true that like every institution some support one political team and one supports another. Trump is busy filling judge appointments with judges favourable to him.

However, the federal judge in Washington threw out Mannaforts claims. And said Mueller was acting within his remit, of which I posted a link to earlier."falls squarely within that portion of the authority granted to the Special Counsel that Manafort finds unobjectionable," namely the order to investigate any links coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-departmen...

[Byker28i]

Davos123 said:

Byker28i said:

As I said, everything's a source, but you have to weight them. In Alex jones case, it would be with several helium balloons , his testimony is so lightweight . IMHO of course

Yeah, because he's a conspiracy theorist nutjob. Like Mensch.

For what it's worth, I don't think mensch is a nut job, like Alex Jones, but they both have their own sense of inflated importance, that they are right.
As I said, you have to compare sources, not relying on a single source but useothers to verify.

In the case mentioned, I'd be surprised if hannity wasn't being investigated because of his links and I think there's more to come from this. And I'll reiterate yet again, I find the claims that Fox News is being investigated with links to Russian propaganda a little far fetched.

[Byker28i]

Bloomberg have expanded on New York attorneys claims against the trump organisation, including some salacious claims
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/view/articles/2018-0...

New findings, for instance, show that the Trump Foundation’s largest-ever gift — $264,631 — was used to renovate a fountain outside the windows of Trump’s Plaza Hotel.

A man claiming to be worth billions of dollars -- and who certainly flaunted the lifestyle -- appears to have illegally diverted $7 from a charitable foundation to pay his son’s Boy Scouts registration fee.

[Davos123]

Byker28i said:

For what it's worth, I don't think mensch is a nut job, like Alex Jones, but they both have their own sense of inflated importance, that they are right.
As I said, you have to compare sources, not relying on a single source but useothers to verify.

In the case mentioned, I'd be surprised if hannity wasn't being investigated because of his links and I think there's more to come from this. And I'll reiterate yet again, I find the claims that Fox News is being investigated with links to Russian propaganda a little far fetched.

Look, you posted an article written by a conspiracy theorist who's time and time again made outlandish, ridiculous claims about Russa and Coyft called you out on it. The article has the same amount of journalistic integrity behind it as something posted on infowars, it's not a source worth posting and Coyft was absolutely right. How many of the following things would you also think are "worth keeping an eye on?"

Putin had Andrew Brietbart murdered so Bannon could take charge at Breitbart
Russia posed as ISIL to murder 39 people in a Turkish nightclub in 2017
Steve Bannon was behind bomb threats to Jewish communities
The 15 year old girl Anthony Weiner sent lewd photos to was actually a group of Russian hackers
Glenn Greenwald is a Russian shill
Peter Theil is a Russian shill
Mark Zuckerberg is a Russian shill


Posting stuff from known fake-news/conspiracy outlets without flagging them as such is irresponsible.

[Davos123]

I'd recommend you follow the advice of this article: https://newrepublic.com/minutes/142650/stop-promot...

[Byker28i]

Methinks thou does protest too much. I posted the source, qualified it as a single source with perhaps a subject to. Watch out for. That was it.

Still you've made your point and responded. I'll move on now thanks.