45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 4)
Discussion
_dobbo_ said:
frankenstein12 said:
They are being detained for being in the country Illegally. Simple.
WRONG! what a shock.Honestly, you're an apologist for pretty much every terrible thing happening in the world right now, so of course you're an apologist for the abuse of children being weaponised by Trump. Of course.
Nanook said:
Trump space force: US to set up sixth military branch - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44527672
I thought this was a joke at first.
This is why we will never be a multi planetary species. The blokes in charge want to weaponise EVERYTHING. We don’t deserve to thrive as a species outside of our lonely rock. I thought this was a joke at first.
frankenstein12 said:
Trump is being extremely fair and reasonable in my book. He has implemented a harsh policy to get around the massively flawed policy of catch and release and he has said he is happy to draft new legislation to allow an amnesty etc providing the new legislation allows funds for the wall and gets rid of the lottery and catch and release amongst other flawed policies/laws.
Applying conditions to be agreed to that have been previously rejected by the dems to avert the crisis and pinning the blame on the dems seems fair and reasonable to you? 
frankenstein12 said:
Byker28i said:
We agree on that, but thats not what's happening. No phone calls allowed, the parents being processed separately. These are misdemeanours that they are having the children taken from them.
I think trump may actually have gone a step too far this time for all but his base,but we know he won't back down and admit he was wrong
You are getting caught up on the wrong factor here and I have pointed it out. It is irrelevant what led to them being detained whether a misdemeanour or mass murder. They are being detained for being in the country Illegally. Simple.I think trump may actually have gone a step too far this time for all but his base,but we know he won't back down and admit he was wrong
The US is using minor infringements to hold them as there isn't decent enough legislation in place other than catch and release which would mean they are likely to disappear.
Trump is being extremely fair and reasonable in my book. He has implemented a harsh policy to get around the massively flawed policy of catch and release and he has said he is happy to draft new legislation to allow an amnesty etc providing the new legislation allows funds for the wall and gets rid of the lottery and catch and release amongst other flawed policies/laws.
The democrats however are refusing to work with him in doing so as they want a near open border policy and to keep catch and release and to not have to build a wall.
Whether you believe the wall will be effective or not is a different debate to be had but getting rid of idiotic things like catch and release and lottery migration is a good thing as is drafting legislation to more quickly and effectively deal with illegal and legal migration.
king wall, so decides that changing policies is the way to do it, then brazenly lies and says it’s all the democrats fault. Republicans have the house and senate and he can’t even get laws changed. For a man to strip children away from parents seeking asylum is despicable. The fact that Sanders, and Sessions then use the bible to justify there actions shows what kind of people they really are.
Seventy said:
Nanook said:
Trump space force: US to set up sixth military branch - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44527672
I thought this was a joke at first.
Trump will eliminate all illegal aliens. I thought this was a joke at first.
Challo said:
The issue is this change is Trumps policy and he is holding children as leverage to get the changes he wants. He can’t get funding for his fking wall, so decides that changing policies is the way to do it, then brazenly lies and says it’s all the democrats fault. Republicans have the house and senate and he can’t even get laws changed.
For a man to strip children away from parents seeking asylum is despicable. The fact that Sanders, and Sessions then use the bible to justify there actions shows what kind of people they really are.
If the parents broke the law then the Parents are to blame not Trump not the administration. Its not a hard concept to grasp really in the same way that TR broke the law and is now rightly in jail as correct legal process was followed.king wall, so decides that changing policies is the way to do it, then brazenly lies and says it’s all the democrats fault. Republicans have the house and senate and he can’t even get laws changed. For a man to strip children away from parents seeking asylum is despicable. The fact that Sanders, and Sessions then use the bible to justify there actions shows what kind of people they really are.
Trump may have lied about whos fault it is this policy exists and he may be behaving utterly ruthlessly to get policy change done but unfortunately many many years of trying to get policy changed by playing nice hasn't worked.
Countdown said:
Seventy said:
Nanook said:
Trump space force: US to set up sixth military branch - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44527672
I thought this was a joke at first.
Trump will eliminate all illegal aliens. I thought this was a joke at first.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It is NOT illegal to be an asylum seeker ( I have already posed the relevant references to that and I acknowledge and accept it)However there is an angle to it that I cannot remember but remember reading about which allows for Asylum seekers to be detained rather than released.
frankenstein12 said:
he has said he is happy to draft new legislation to allow an amnesty etc providing the new legislation allows funds for the wall and gets rid of the lottery and catch and release amongst other flawed policies/laws.
The democrats however are refusing to work with him .
Explain this please. Why does Trump need the democrats’ help when the GOP controls both houses?The democrats however are refusing to work with him .
And why should American politicians vote to pay for a wall that Trump told them Mexico would pay for?
Davos123 said:
A reminder of why Trump can say and do the things he does and maintain/gain support: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/06/1...
20% of Americans would deny Muslim citizens the vote.
Unpleasant but not unexpected.20% of Americans would deny Muslim citizens the vote.
In terms of social attitudes South Africa is the country America reminds me of most. Outside of cosmopolitan areas like Durban or San Francisco the interactions between people of different colours tends to be cordial but transactional rather than friendly, for example if you get a taxi or hire a gardener then a cordial conversation can be struck up but if you go to a party or dinner then it's easy to find myself in a whites only bubble. Attitudes towards sex and relationships is similarly a decade or few behind northern Europe.
This is a generalisation but when in America I've found myself thinking 'this reminds me of South Africa' far more often than I've thought 'this reminds me of Europe'.
I think the fact there was in recent times a government system based on racism leaves a big imprint on the social norms people recoil towards when they feel under pressure, a received historical wisdom that says 'this ideology worked for us previously so if the modern world fails then this is what we should fall back on'.
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Edit - The thing that's intriguing me that I can't work out is why people are feeling under pressure. Economically Europe and America doing ok, the headline growth, employment and inflation figures are in the sort of range where you'd expect incumbents to be re-elected but it's clear from how people are voting that they are not happy with the way things are, hence populism everywhere.
IMO governments and major news sources have lost their authority since the internet became ubiquitous. It's not the proliferation of alt news sources that's causing the problem, the problem is that politicians are so deeply mistrusted that alt news sources can gain traction. We saw an example of this in France where Macron presented a trustworthy face and was rewarded by the voters.
I am still of a mind however that a trustworthy face isn't going to be enough, there needs to be a fundamental upgrade to the way we do democracy.
Edited by Tartan Pixie on Monday 18th June 22:59
_dobbo_ said:
frankenstein12 said:
They are being detained for being in the country Illegally. Simple.
WRONG! what a shock.Honestly, you're an apologist for pretty much every terrible thing happening in the world right now, so of course you're an apologist for the abuse of children being weaponised by Trump. Of course.
I notice you remained silent on this as well, any reason why? Oh wait I already know.
_dobbo_ said:
frankenstein12 said:
Don't blame the jailer for the consequences of your own actions.
Unless it's Tommy Robinson being jailed, AMIRITE? cos you seemed to spend a really fking long time blaming the jailer for the consequences of his actions. Weird that.
LOL you are such a whiny little b
h.frankenstein12 said:
It is NOT illegal to be an asylum seeker ( I have already posed the relevant references to that and I acknowledge and accept it)
However there is an angle to it that I cannot remember but remember reading about which allows for Asylum seekers to be detained rather than released.
There is no reason why the cannot, if identified as asylum seekers, be deported back together straight away (you can argue the constitution does or doesn’t require due process all day long) but there is no reason why adults need to be removed / separated from their children. However there is an angle to it that I cannot remember but remember reading about which allows for Asylum seekers to be detained rather than released.
The only reason for doing it is so pictures will be released and deter future people from seeking asylum. If anything the process of splitting up families is more expensive to the US taxpayer.
So basically being a
for s sake. Tony33 said:
Greg66 said:
Explain this please. Why does Trump need the democrats’ help when the GOP controls both houses?
Because the Senate needs 60 votes to pass legislation and the GOP have 51 senatorsBut before there can be a vote there has to be a debate. And to bring the debate to an end (or to close a filibuster) you need 60 votes.
So the GOP could get a law passed on this tomorrow if it chose not to weigh it down with others bits of crap (which is the bane of US legislative process).
Besides, what’s currently being done is based on a policy, not a law, and Trump could undo it without involving Congress.
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