Miami school shooting
Discussion
Tankrizzo said:
Nanook said:
There's a few issues with that. One being that you cannot 'delete' or 'remove' amendments, as I understand it. You can only add more.
Secondly, the proportion of people that need to use their gun to defend their property is very low. But if the criminals and gangbangers know that you don't have a gun in the house, and as you've suggested, it would be very hard to remove all guns from circulation, especially when so many are unregistered and owned illegally, then they're more likely to come in to your house, and there's not going to be much you can do about it.
They absolutely need to do something, but it's not just as simple as "ban guns, make it illegal to own one"
There are just too many of them in circulation, and too many Americans that really do believe it's a god given right to
own an AR-15, that just aren't going to give it up that easily.
Yeah, I completely get that. I think you can change the Constitution through Article 5 but I'm not an expert, I seem to recall the proposed repeals/amendments have to go before all the states for ratification.Secondly, the proportion of people that need to use their gun to defend their property is very low. But if the criminals and gangbangers know that you don't have a gun in the house, and as you've suggested, it would be very hard to remove all guns from circulation, especially when so many are unregistered and owned illegally, then they're more likely to come in to your house, and there's not going to be much you can do about it.
They absolutely need to do something, but it's not just as simple as "ban guns, make it illegal to own one"
There are just too many of them in circulation, and too many Americans that really do believe it's a god given right to
own an AR-15, that just aren't going to give it up that easily.
Sadly as I said I don't think it will ever change, they are totally screwed
TTmonkey said:
AreOut said:
he is obviously mentally ill, likely wanted to attract attention without realising the consequences
the question is why FBI/police didn't react, those who were informed and didn't react should also end up in jail and that should greatly reduce the chances of this happening again
Yes the FBI is going to have to look again at itself. Hard to believe they weren't on him. the question is why FBI/police didn't react, those who were informed and didn't react should also end up in jail and that should greatly reduce the chances of this happening again
However, just saying 'obviously mentally ill' doesn't cut it for me as the end of the line of enquiry. Millions of people have mental issues and don't go on killing sprees. In fact it's a bit of an insult to the many people that have mental illnesses to say that this is justification enough for what he did.
after the third or fourth massacre. Evil is Evil.
Shame, he is going to plead guilty to try to avoid the death penalty
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/17/us/florida-scho...
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/17/us/florida-scho...
Dromedary66 said:
Shame, he is going to plead guilty to try to avoid the death penalty
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/17/us/florida-scho...
Better for him to spend the rest of his life in prison to spend every single day thinking about what he has done, as opposed to an easy way out, IMO.https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/17/us/florida-scho...
Dromedary66 said:
Shame, he is going to plead guilty to try to avoid the death penalty
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/17/us/florida-scho...
So known to the police to have mental health issues (multiple calls to his parents property about his behaviour) yet able to legally acquire 5 guns in the last year.https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/17/us/florida-scho...
And people still say introducing a degree of gun control won't help?
An old satire by NewsThump, but relevant.. http://newsthump.com/2015/11/13/isis-pledge-to-kil...
Blue62 said:
The hypocrisy is sickening, was there ever a clearer example of state corruption? A terror attack provokes a completely different response from Mr President to anything a home grown malcontent could drum up. I know the world's gone mad, but this stuff really makes me want to get off.
Indeed
Dr Jekyll said:
Ructions said:
An idiot tried and failed miserably to blow up a plane with his shoe, the result of his actions means everyone has to take their shoes off at the airport.
Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
So what do you suggest? Confiscate all legally held guns? Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
a) do absolutely nothing (a.k.a. thoughts and prayers)
b) ban all guns
Why does every single argument now come down to a binary choice? Is it just impossible to imagine anything between the two extremes ?
Here's an idea: take all the attacks and identify the consistencies between them. Look at political views, organisations they belong to, medical history, drug use, upbringing, exposure to propaganda etc.
Then work out some regulations that will address those things and help reduce the possibility of this happening again.
Or as an alternative option, treat the NRA as a hostile organisation and prevent them from pouring money into the pockets of politicians.
If people are going to talk about gun control in the United States, talk about what could be achievable with a lot of luck and a lot of effort. Talking about banning guns, confiscating guns and jailing gun owners who won't hand them in is not realistic. It is about as realistic as you saying you will run for PM and cut NHS costs by 50% while improving care, reducing ill health and improving life expectancy. It just ain't gonna happen and you make yourself look like you have no idea at all.
California or NY State style laws applied countrywide might be achievable with a lot of luck and a lot of effort.
If you want to start talk about confiscating large numbers of guns and jailing gun owners, go find a strong gale and piss into it.
California or NY State style laws applied countrywide might be achievable with a lot of luck and a lot of effort.
If you want to start talk about confiscating large numbers of guns and jailing gun owners, go find a strong gale and piss into it.
durbster said:
Or as an alternative option, treat the NRA as a hostile organisation and prevent them from pouring money into the pockets of politicians.
Trouble is, those very same politicians would have to propose, sanction and ratify this. For perspective, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio (R) was gifted with $3.3 million by the NRA is the last 12 months. That buys a s
t-load of thoughts and prayers.
Matt Harper said:
Trouble is, those very same politicians would have to propose, sanction and ratify this. For perspective, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio (R) was gifted with $3.3 million by the NRA is the last 12 months. That buys a st-load of thoughts and prayers.
I guess they're getting through even more thoughts and prayers than ever before nowadays. Just as well that they have plenty of different gods to cope as it must be difficult for them to handle peak workloads of worshippers. As a god-loving (or is it fearing?) nation, I hope they all feel that their god is protecting all of them - including those very shooters who are killing off a few thousand of their brothers and sisters at regular intervals. t-load of thoughts and prayers.It's a strange country, full of strange people. Modern in outlook, but back in the Wild West in practice.
Robertj21a said:
Matt Harper said:
Trouble is, those very same politicians would have to propose, sanction and ratify this. For perspective, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio (R) was gifted with $3.3 million by the NRA is the last 12 months. That buys a st-load of thoughts and prayers.
I guess they're getting through even more thoughts and prayers than ever before nowadays. Just as well that they have plenty of different gods to cope as it must be difficult for them to handle peak workloads of worshippers. As a god-loving (or is it fearing?) nation, I hope they all feel that their god is protecting all of them - including those very shooters who are killing off a few thousand of their brothers and sisters at regular intervals. t-load of thoughts and prayers.It's a strange country, full of strange people. Modern in outlook, but back in the Wild West in practice.
Nanook said:
Tankrizzo said:
Amend the Constitution to remove the 2nd Amendment.
Change the law so it is illegal to own most types of gun beyond a certain size and use.
Change the law to remove CCW and open-carry in public.
Change the law to introduce heavy prison time for anyone found carrying a gun in public.
Gun amnesty with a buyback system funded by the government.
Stringent background checks like the UK including personal references, medical checks and firearms need.
This will obviously not remove the guns of gangbangers, criminals or people who don't want to turn them in, but it's a long game which would span multiple generations. I would hazard a guess that the proportion of people who buy a gun for "home defence" and actually use it for that purpose in anger is absolutely tiny, so the whole "but criminals will still have guns and I will be unarmed" thing goes out the window.
All this is perfectly theoretically possible but would need a huge amount of public opinion, time, money and political will, none of which the USA is prepared to give. You could never introduce the restrictions above with the current American mindset. So nothing will change and the supposedly most advanced country on earth will continue to lose innocent kids to mass shootings every year.
There's a few issues with that. One being that you cannot 'delete' or 'remove' amendments, as I understand it. You can only add more.Change the law so it is illegal to own most types of gun beyond a certain size and use.
Change the law to remove CCW and open-carry in public.
Change the law to introduce heavy prison time for anyone found carrying a gun in public.
Gun amnesty with a buyback system funded by the government.
Stringent background checks like the UK including personal references, medical checks and firearms need.
This will obviously not remove the guns of gangbangers, criminals or people who don't want to turn them in, but it's a long game which would span multiple generations. I would hazard a guess that the proportion of people who buy a gun for "home defence" and actually use it for that purpose in anger is absolutely tiny, so the whole "but criminals will still have guns and I will be unarmed" thing goes out the window.
All this is perfectly theoretically possible but would need a huge amount of public opinion, time, money and political will, none of which the USA is prepared to give. You could never introduce the restrictions above with the current American mindset. So nothing will change and the supposedly most advanced country on earth will continue to lose innocent kids to mass shootings every year.
Secondly, the proportion of people that need to use their gun to defend their property is very low. But if the criminals and gangbangers know that you don't have a gun in the house, and as you've suggested, it would be very hard to remove all guns from circulation, especially when so many are unregistered and owned illegally, then they're more likely to come in to your house, and there's not going to be much you can do about it.
They absolutely need to do something, but it's not just as simple as "ban guns, make it illegal to own one"
There are just too many of them in circulation, and too many Americans that really do believe it's a god given right to own an AR-15, that just aren't going to give it up that easily.
If they really want to stop school shootings they'd be better off by:
Banning doctors from doping American kids with antidepressants. (Big Pharma won't like that)
Getting the media to play it down and stop turning every shooter into international rock stars (in their minds) in the pursuit of ratings & sensationalism. For it is they who are ensuring the next overmedicated loser coming off the production line thinks about going on a killing spree too.
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